Recently I found myself killed for an action that I took tonight, was I in the wrong sure, was what happened to me deserved I don't feel that it was but apparently my oppinion doesn't matter its that of the people around us.

So I will put this out there to you all take it or leave it or be one of those people that don't bother questioning or examining the logic and bash it I don't care.

I was wacked tonight because I gave away name and location of a sponsored member to a crew, wrong yes. But, nothing happened to it, the point of that message was taken out of contexted and used to make me into the bad guy.

My intentions were to draw out the rogue member causing panic and death to those around us because people were unable to stop him. I decided to use a sponsored gangster as bait to draw him out to me as a target but he was focused on other targets instead.

He was looking to take down the highest members that he could within Evil_Clown's crew that were unprotected. Anytime there are serious threats being made and attempts on lives there is such a thing as excepted loss and casualty.

The arguement is who am I to determine the value of life in this game and I say that I am not in that position but the rank system sure is a good place to start.

Take for example my previous account - about 100 hours played nearly consigliere points on of the crews top earners, also a +75 gun, active in the forums, active in the crews finances and always looking to be more active and helpful for the crew.

Now look at the other person in the equation the gangster ... 48 hours alive and thats all I know about him that I can say, is he an active member maybe, does he bring value to the streets and to the game sure ...

So why is it that people are soo fast to kill off the account like mine for suggestion in gest and attempts to draw fire from the crew under attack gets wacked off instantly without another thought.

Why is it that we are not allowed to see explanation for our deaths until it is over? Because we might go rogue? No, our guns can be taken away and we can be demoted. Having to work all the way back to Boss/Consig is quite the punishment in its own right, taking away a persons gun leads to hours worth of petties to regain control, this can also be done multiple times if necessary depending on the offense.

So why then I ask are people so quick to lose a hard working member because of something that can be avoided, because its grounds for war?

Seriously if somebody went to war because of revealing location of a member that was never shot or harmed or in any real danger would be ludacris. To think that the only way people here know how to react is by firing their gun is immature.

There is a level of respect that should be earned and that should grant at least a trial or explanation, if my actions were viewed soo greaviously by the other crew then they should be the ones to make known the situation and there should be allowed a rebuttle for the person if they are a well ranked and respected member of the family. To see that we are treated like garbage and not given those little bits of respect makes me think we are all just worhtless the first mistake we make regardless of our hard work and time spent.

Are there times where death is the response to misbehavior sure but is that the reaction that needed to be taken here, I'm interested to know if everyone here really thinks that execution is the only response or if theres room for some kind of order on the basis of respect. Are we not all humans and falible at times, are we to be held to a perfect standard and to fall short means death with no defense for ones point of view, I know we are the mafia but there is a code amongst us.

Even though this is a role play game and that takes importance to the way rules are setup but we can't too quickly forget that this is a game. Will I be back and grinding along of course, will I go back to a family that used to value me, that I poured out a lot of effort and time into, that left me swimming with the fishes in cement shoes? No.

I was trying to get the opportunity to bring to this game ideals and things to help change the old systems that seemed to be flawed and wasn't given that chance, I looking back wasn't given the respect that I worked hard to earn and as a result I need to rebuild that all over again, but the thing is I can forgive them for what they did and move on because I don't need to hold grudges, I am capable of working hard and earning respect for myself once again because I know my value and potential its too bad they didn't realize it.

So go ahead tear this up tell me why you think its garbage tell me why I deserved to die and not think twice about my message, or examine this learn from this realize that people here should be allowed second chances and forgiveness for errors they were not fully aware of, for a situation that resolved itself and caused no harm in the end.

I think the problem is this. You took matters into your own hands. I know sometimes it's very hard to be patient and wait while you see good people being slaughtered mercilessly. I know you thought you had a good idea but the fact of the matter is, Kee was very methodical in his take down. It wasn't a "oh shit let's panic" thing, it was clear, concise, and accomplished what he thought best.

By you giving up locals on a sponsored gangster, you were the one who showed panic. Instead of waiting for him to die like he eventually would, you took it into your own hands to well, try to force his hand. It doesn't matter that nothing happened to THIS particular gangster, it was the action that you took that brought about your demise, whether the gangster died or not.

It's the same as taking a hostage and getting shot by a sniper, you sought to gain the upper hand, and lost your life instead.

I hope next time that something like this happens, instead of trying to flush out the "bad guy" by giving up information that really isn't your to give, do the right thing. Throw up a jail, collect witness statements, fly to cities and give locals to your CL. Every little bit helps to bring justice, not vigilantism.

Thats an explanation that I can appreciate and understand but does that mistake necessarily have to be immediate death without question or can alternative punishments be enacted in lue of death, in order to teach the wrong doer the lesson and still maintain a valuable member of your crew. Can we take the extra minute to clear things up with the offended parties to correct the wrong situation before reacting so brash and heartlessly? Do we get too carried away with our guns at times that we make choices that we can't take back later on. Could the first step even if death was the eventual decided upon outcome, be to demote and keep the member alive long enough to explain why?

Crew leads and hands have the power to keep their members in check and to know their location so its not like they could cause any further or any irrepairable damage while awaiting punishment.

Could the leaders of this mafia realm take into consideration these ideas of discipline or is what I'm asking too much? Or are we quite infatuated with ...

Success!

Dat bum's swimmin with da fishes.

I think iimes like this, while it's not a war situation, you were aiding and abetting a known enemy of all the families. Whether he was specifically targeting ONE or ALL members of the cities. Your actions turned you from being part of the solution, to part of the helper. Your actions made you no better than the person who was offering Kee protection shots.

In my time spent here, it doesn't matter if you're a gangster or a Capo. If you're part of a family, you are afforded a certain amount of protection from that crew leader and ultimately the godfather protecting the city. Yes Made Men and avove get special priviledges because they have proven their worth to their leaders but who is to say that this young gangster doesn't have the same potential? How would you feel if YOU were that gangster being ousted, your name and location revealed. If it were me I'd be doing one of two things, 1. looking for a clean pair of panties and 2. hoping to GOD that my crew leader did something to protect me.

In my opinion, that is what happened. You gave away information that was not yours to give. It would be the same if you posted lists of who were the shooters in your city or who your HSL was. When you did that, the leader was just in his cause to hand out or ask for any punishment he felt necessary to teach a lesson. I have seen cities go down for less than this. What you did was clearly out of line. Every city rule says a variation on the same thing. Sponsored members are under the protection of their crew leaders and Godfathers. They are not to be touched. And while you didn't shoot at him, you gave him away to be shot nonetheless.

Rank or not, Made Man or gangster, if you are in a city wearing someone's protection badge, you have the RIGHT to be protected by that person. And if someone threatens that right, then that someone has to pay the price.

I hope you understand that while I have no ill will towards YOU, I do think your actions were reckless and endangering and I think that the punishment, however harsh it seemed, was justified.

One one hand, I really can emapthise you. One of my big problems with the game is that gangsters (or anyone below made) has so much clout. In real life, A Made Guy could expect no punishment if he shot a random unaffiliated criminaland the police didn't find out. Even if he capped what we deem as an associate, there'd be a slap on the wrist and no more. To that length, I can have a grain of sympathy because, yeah, if this was the real Mafia, your boss count would probably still be aliving and kicking.

Still, we all know that this is not the way the game works and I really can't believe you're surprised that you died. The fact that Charlie is still alive is frankly immaterial. If I approached someone and told them I was going to shoot them, whether I actually did or not would be immaterial, I'd still find myself in a world of shit - what you did is no different.

And take a moment to look at this from your CL's perspective. At worst, you were deliberately colluding with a Rogue. If that was the case, it stands to reason you could've been the guy bankrolling his private flights and providing him locals with any of the other shots he took. I think on this alone, your death was guaranteed.

Even in a 'best case scenario', what you did was a very highly misguided attempt at sorting things out. What it boils down to is you, as a completely uninvolved third party saying 'Charlie is only a gangster and therefore by giving the rogue his location I have the right to decide which of EvilClown's members are most important to him.' Not only presumptuous, but frankly insulting too. As you're a high ranker, your Boss letting you live is tantamount to him saying 'I agree with my boss', that's the way it works.

Iniative is a good thing, but the lessons learned here are, don't act on behalf of anyone but yourself unless you're a CL or slanty, and perhaps more importantly, don't put your nose where it doesn't belong.

A gangster or not, you have no right to dictate who lives and who dies from another city, from another crew unless your in a position to call the shots, which you weren't

Call it a lesson learnt and move on

To me, just sounds like your a sore loser.

I understand your thoughts but is so many things to consider when choosing a sacrificial lamb; past characters, friends, links in the game and of course the fact your communicating with a rogue.  Kee came with a plan that would make many rogues envious and he has to be credited for his plan and efficiency even if rogues are thought of as the scum of the earth due to the lack of loyalty and the fact never know what or who they are out for. 

My personal thoughts are never communicate with a rogue except a leader to request them to step down(however useless it is), never put someone in harms way if not needed, these should always be hunted(preferably by someone with the right size gun so it dont screw up) and anyone who collaborates with the rogue should go too.  It may seem harsh, may seem insensitive to those who feeled wronged and although we give the often hypocritical " if you want change rank and do it" then slap people down for doing something about it but are other ways sometimes to change things.