There is no misinformation coming from my side of this conversation. Gillian's self-declared primary target was harison who remains very much alive. Feel free to add the relevant part where she shot him rather than just running her moronic mouth at Striphe, another person she didn't kill, and I'll happily come across to your way of thinking. It would be a welcome break from reality to consider betrayal and idiocy as victory and success. I wonder what that would be like? Be like Gillian; a glorified toddler, incapable of reason, and prone to hit the roof over the slightest provocation, even if it was just my own words parotted back to me. Going through each day thinking that snorting cocaine from a hooker's ass was something to brag about, before ultimately turning my back on everyone who carried me to this position. On second thought, I'll pass - hookers are gross. 

Quoting half a sentence and disregarding pertinent parts is misinformation by omission.

If I have to say everything twice this is going to be a really long conversation, and I’m pretty sure my card is already marked by some of your equally salty cohorts.

Mr_Intimidating, what do you have against hookers? They gotta make a living. Thats not a very nice thing to say.

Say it 100 times if it makes you feel better, Dave, you're still wrong. I'd probably repeat myself too if I didn't have any defense. 

Holden, they are deplorable. Look at this story the late, great Gillian shared about her own experiences:

"Even my biggest enormous strap-on dildo wasn't proportionate enough for this hooker's huge floppy vagina. I tried thickening the dildo with some stuff i found lying around, but the stuff just disappeared inside her. Then suddenly she sneezed and something incredible happened: a supermassive black hole appeared, sucking everything around like a vacuum. Cucumbers, carrots, dildos, bycicles, whips, cigarette butts and a 10 pound bag of cocaine. I was able to hold onto the stripping pole nearby, before almost getting sucked into oblivion. Phew, it was a close call. Thanks to this hooker i met once, i got to know the concept of proportionality."

Are these the type of people you want to be hanging around with? Not me. Even an evening with Dave quoting himself at his Gillian pity party would be more enjoyable. 

It was not the hooker's fault that she had a huge chacha! And it ended up teaching my mother something very important, which is the concept of proportionality. You should respect those women, they are hard workers.

I'd probably repeat myself too if I didn't have any defense.

You are. Between tears.

1. I'll give you that Remy wasn't the most active, to say the least, but he did do what he need to do, and was constantly in communication. That said, I was not happy by any means by his weekly hours. Gillian wasn't even active herself so the whole thing is farcical.  
2. Remy didn’t betray Corky. Just because someone doesn’t stand up for another person doesn’t always mark it as a betrayal. If he sought revenge for her, he would've been throwing him and everyone else under him into the trash. Others would not have followed him. It happened, and he didn't seek revenge. He was not a shooter in it either. That isn't exactly a betrayal... Just not strategic in any sense for him to dumpster himself alone in a rage.
3. As I know, there was no real thread about Corky’s demise, but the long and short of it, respectfully and tersely, was that Corky was approached one morning on a potential security issue, and she reacted in a manner that was not received well. It was clear that moving forward, that sort of reaction was going to continue, and there would not be a good working relationship with her district and the other cities. That said, I like Corky.
4. Further, Music didn’t betray Corky… From my recollection, she was authed by DeadlySin into that district, not Corky… and Music was not involved in the aforementioned “issue” that Corky was having. At the same time, Music had her own issues within Detroit, which the other city heads were aware of, namely lack of communication between districts. She had her own relationship with all the other Godfathers (while Corky had only a little), and that is why she was left alive. Music was mostly off on her own there. Also, Music did not shoot at Corky or her district. She did not know anything beforehand.
5. OK, Gillian was bored, but in Gillian’s selfishness, Gillian decided to do something that upset people that defended Gillian and let Gillian get away with irrational and improper behavior all the time, when otherwise for other people would not have. Maybe she did it to make one or two people happy, but she screwed us over in it. This was our failure.  
6. I don’t think Middy would laugh. Among other reasons, to cite what happened when Project shot KW… He wasn’t one to encourage roguing on our allies. It's not worth thinking about that hypothetical of what he would think beyond that. 
7. Striphe didn’t leak Gillian. 
8. Your move didn’t make things that interesting really… Just made me look bad, and unfortunately proved the naysayers about Gillian right, which I had been trying to prevent for so long... 

Now to add, Gillian told Lucrezia Gillian would “never shoot” him as she started rouging. “Don’t shoot me :P,” he said. Gillian said back, “i would never <3.” That was dishonorable. He put trust in her, and decided not to get proed because he thought Gillian his friend and would hold to that.

You can have your own thoughts, your own decisions, and do your own actions, but no one has to find them acceptable or not be hurt or frankly, like me, embarrassed, after often having to excuse things for Gillian. I misplaced faith that Gillian wouldn’t step out of line to hurt my allies, which in effect hurt me.

I had gone above and beyond with DangerClose to try to keep Gillian stable, happy, and not to chase down nonsensical beefs. Even still, I did try to help her with some, and defended her all the time. Anyone else would have been dead for some things we let her do. Gillian had given a lot of assurances and promises to us, which were broken. That is why there was upset on our end.  

As we discussed, in these worlds of ours, things are separate, but you’d have to be blind to not realize that it was a betrayal of trust here, especially after everything leading up to it.  

I can put it to rest there. 

As I said; salty bitches. Be like Gillian, be a winner - do your own dirty work. Take the negative consequences and the jail time yourself if you’re unable to effectively debate me.

Dave's Book of Alternate Definitions:

Success - failing to achieve your goal

Doing your own dirty work - Not killing the people you set out to

Winning - betraying your friends and being killed

A Debate - Quoting yourself and ignoring the facts until the other person stops responding to you

Someone who doesn't agree with your nonsense point of view - salty, crying or a bitch

Ok Mr Completely Unintimidating… let’s get into this then, yeah?

All you’ve really said is that Gillian “failed”. In reality, she killed a Chairman. That’s not a failure in anyone’s eyes. Not anyone with any real understanding of Our Thing. Your reasoning; because she said she initially intended to kill a different Chairman.

By your own words, once you can kill one, you can kill all. So she succeeded, she simply shifted her target choice. What was the reason? Availability perhaps? I can’t say. What I can say is that the core reason was the same (inactivity / absolute fucking uselessness), and that the same regime was impacted, albeit a different region of the same regime.

So you’re minimising a top tier kill. Why are you doing that? The only reason I can infer is because you’re salty af that she killed your kin, or maybe a friend of yours? I honestly don’t care what the actual reason is at this point, because even if you told us the truth now, it would seem disingenuous regardless. So hide behind whatever facade best protects your ego. Call Gillian useless if it makes you feel better. But let’s not pretend this was a nothing shot, or that Gillian achieved nothing because that’s utter crap. I know it, you know it… and everyone listening knows that you know it too.

Peace out, Salty.

I was being facetious with some of my replies, Dave. I'm sorry. If we are going to talk about this, I'll start out by saying I actually wasn't trying to minimise killing a Godfather Chairman, which does require effort to build a gun to that level. My view is that this escapade was not a success and to see it as such requires you to set a pretty low bar. 

Why do I think that? Well, is it any better around here? No. Has this regime been deposed? No. Are different people calling the shots? No. Are the exact same people still doing the exact same thing, in the exact same way as they were before? Yes.

So nothing has changed as a result of this and the biggest loser in it all was actually Gillian. She went from a privileged position of being, in Spike's own words, able to "get away with irrational and improper behaviour all the time" to being dead. She traded killing Shoresey and a few, sorry, not very important others, to being back to the gutter. "Be more Gillian" is a ridiculous message to convey. Throw away everything to change nothing. Go from the top to the bottom and waste 200 days of effort in exchange for...well, not a lot really, is it? Not even the person you set out to get. That isn't how I measure success. 

As to your repeated assertions about me, I'm not "salty" or crying. Gillian has never killed me or my kin as far as I know. I found her tolerated "irrational and improper behaviours" a source of ongoing amusement. This regime have killed my predecessors and will very likely kill me too at a certain point, so they are not my cohorts. I didn't hitlist you either. I have no skin in this game at all really, and as to my motivations in speaking here, I find praising disloyalty, betrayal and stupidity weird in a world predicated on family and honour. That's why I asked Rufus about his praise and find myself at odds with yours. Not that you care, I know, you said, but there you go, asked and answered.  

To suggest this was not a success for Gillian would be a blatant attempt to rewrite history: -

“Gillian decided to do something… Maybe she did it to make one or two people happy, but she screwed us over in it.
This was our failure.”

-Spike at May 09, ‘24 19:38

For one side to fail, the other side must succeed, no?

Okay, so maybe it wasn’t as bad as I’m making out. Fuck me, right? Wait… wut?

“He wasn't one to encourage roguing on our allies.”

-Spike at May 09, ‘24 19:38

“I misplaced faith that Gillian wouldn't step out of line to hurt my allies, which in effect hurt me.”

-Spike at May 09, ‘24 19:38

So it has been repeatedly confirmed that Remy was an ally of this regime and that Gillian effectively damaged this putrid cabal with her actions. The most powerful ally in New York, according to this regime’s official spokesman, and lil old useless Gillian nailed his ass? What a wasteman. I don’t even know how to convey my disappointment at this stage.

Let’s face it, this regime has been undeniably weakened. They’ve been shaken whether you want to accept that or not. Reserve players have been installed in high office. Dejection and fatigue have set in, and cracks are beginning to appear in the foundations. Okay, yes the whole house of cards hasn’t tumbled - yet, and Remy may not have been a major keystone, but neither is Harison, he’s a KW lackey. If it came down to it, would he follow orders from KW or JTG, if those orders conflicted? So he’s of little consequence too. The only reason Spike and JTG are still breathing is Gillian’s honour. She considered what they gave her to be worth their lives. She spared them to repay a perceived debt. They’re now living under the grace of Gillian, and now you’re out here throwing shade and calling her loyalty into question.

So yeah, I’m team Gillian and I’m gonna remain so. You say you have no skin in this game and that you’ve been killed by Spike and his merry band of bellends previously, yet you’re happily toeing the company line. If anything, I’d say you’re the one with no morals if you’re happy to be out here metaphorically fellating the group you know will put a bullet in you at their earliest opportunity.

I know that Gillian's your muse or whatever but deary me, lay off the second hand hooker ass-coke for a second please, Dave, and engage your brain. Forgetting the personal betrayals which Spike has already stated and you've (shock) quoted above, Gillian was a Don who had taken oaths. She bought out of that family. After that betrayal, she shot Shoresy, an allied Godfather, and you want to venerate her as some Mafia paragon? You're honestly telling me with a straight face that I'm the one with no morals because I'm not defending the oath-breaking traitor next to you? I didn't shoot you after you protected me, promoted me, tolerated my childish outbursts long past the point that was reasonable and I only broke my vow, shot your friend and ally, so therefore I'm beyond reproach? What a fun take on loyalty you have; another one for the scrapbook. 

Why does not agreeing with you have to always equate to being salty, a bitch or 'fellating the group' in power? Can't we just simply disagree, Dave, without accusations of cocksuckery? I mean my views are based in reality and yours are in whatever head-space one has to enter to perform the sort of mental gymnastics that turn obvious betrayal into hero worship, but still, I thought we were making headway for a minute. Guess not. And, if I can push this metaphorical penis out of the way for just a second, if the company line in this instance happens to be that people who waste 200 days of work to make an already stiflingly deflated and fatigued regime, wallowing in the depths of endgame feel a little worse, then I guess I am toeing it, regardless of how many times I get shot. An unfortunate coincidence apparently. 

What a strange line of discussion you troublemakers have fallen into. How could anyone argue in good faith that what Gillian did was not a betrayal of trust and loyalty? You don't have to kill someone to break your word to them. It doesn't seem that complicated. I am very smart though, so you have to forgive me. 

And what of TommyVitale? Sweet Tommy. Taken too soon. 

Tommy, can you hear me?

Can you feel me near you?

Tommy, can you see me?

Can I help to cheer you? 

Oooooo Tommy, Tommy, Tommy

Well, that's no fun. All the arguing has been cut short completely here...the main talking heads have mysteriously found themselves 6 feet underground! It was probably for the best...but now I don't have any reason to eat the popcorn here!

So, what's the moral of this story? Maybe we are all secretly assholes ready to stab one another in the back at any moment. Maybe hookers aren't given the respect they deserve as hard workers. Maybe we're all bored, or maybe some find that as being lazy instead.

We'll just be ready for when this inevitably happens again down the road. I wonder how much different the banter thrown at one another will wind up being?

Feeling absolutely horrible Ginger did not get my attention I grab a red crayon because red is one of my favorite colors and I hope Ginger likes red too because MAGA likes Ginger. 

Dear Ginger,

Please be nice. We all know shit has become an absolute bore. Now I know a person of your stature has to carry themselves with respect to all. But you fell short. May I suggest you regroup and not speak ill anymore. Be nice. Thank you in advance Ginger. Your friend MAGA. 

I can only assume MAGA stands for "Make a Ginger Again" which I can only assume is some sort of rallying cry for how great I am. If being a ginger has taught me anything, and this might be something that MAGA can relate to; I don't really think everyone deserves my respect. 

Especially the people who prove themselves to not be worth the effort it takes it take them seriously. Now, don't get me wrong. I think everyone deserves a chance, but if you squander that opportunity then you deserve what befalls you. 

Besides, I worked hard to reach this station in life, if I haven't earned the right to talk down to people what's the point of achieving anything? 

Ginger, MAGA - Enough of this foolishness.  I'm Leader of the Streets and I compel you to behave with more honour (honor).

Why don't you enter, or not enter, my competition?