OK, so pay close attention to the actual question. I'm not going into why we are addicted to online games, but if you don't like this game, there are sure plenty of fish in the sea, isn't there?

Why would you go to the voting site that allows us to write reviews and then bash the game in there?

Why say you have to pay for all features when it's not true?

Why say this game is too time consuming and people are paranoid and this is an overly defensive game or that you are shunned if you are not one of the cool kids?

Let me take it a step further... Maybe there are valid reasons for my questions above, but what I truly cannot understand is why you would go and discourage new member from joining the community. The only reason I can think of is that you feel so wronged or betrayed or disrespected that you want to hurt the community and prevent new people from joining.

Why have such a destructive attitude? Why don't you just move on to another game?

My philosophy obviously can be deduced by my questions, but I am really curious to see if I am missing something here.

Maybe I get defensive because I love this game so much, but the whole point of advertising is to bring more players to the game. Sure, some people wish for them to donate and keep the game alive, but new players, even if they never donate, benefit us all. More people means more crews, more cities, more fun all around.

I just don't get it...

Simple. People are sour, bitter twats :)

This game can be very unfun if you dont figure out a way to connect to the in crowd. There is no denying that statement. The rest of the bashing, well its bashing. Its easy to hide behind a keyboard and kick sand on game. What amazes me really, is the number of people who post shit reviews, or trash the game, yet still play it for hours on end.

Eh... You don't have to connect to the "in" crowd specifically, but you do need to connect with some people otherwise it defeats the community aspect of the game.

I know lots of people that aren't with the "in" crowd that are fantastic to talk to.

Back when I started I didn't work my way into the "in" crowd.. I did however start out with a fantastic group of people that without I would have just said fuck it after an hour. It's the people we play with that keep us interested and make it fun, regardless of them being "in" or not.

As for the bashing, it happens. People think they are all big when they insult something that they don't want to admit is a big part of what keeps them entertained online. Usually they have been wronged in a war and feel like they don't deserve the shit luck they have, or don't get what they want, or had their feelings hurt.

Majority of the time they still play and post crap like that anonymously because they don't have the balls to say it to the people they call peers here.

The funny thing is that in the site I speak of, your comments are not really anonymous. OR at least some people are not bothering to create a false name to post in there. It's like they WANT us to know they despise the game. And what Alexander says also was one of the details I forgot to mention, many of those people play countless hours in here as well.

You really don't have to be part of any sort of "in crowd". Unless I've been near the top, most regimes I have lived and died in were neither my friends nor allies. I'm usually on the opposite side, the "underdogs" so to speak.

Stick to your own set of morals, regardless of the people in power. People may not like you for it, but they'll begrudgingly show respect.

As for the people posting in spite... let them have their cry. If I was a new player, I would see the numerous good comments and the minority bad ones and realise that it's just people throwing toys out of the pram. All I'd think about them is "boohoo crybaby, hope I get to shoot you when I play.".

It's a faulty assumption to believe that if someone bitches/whines/etc that they do not like the game. To bitch and moan to the extent being described here, the person doing the bitching must actually care about his or her playing of the game, otherwise they couldn't be bothered about it enough to complain.

It is no new phenomenon to have a certain type of personality on this game - one who probably didn't get enough ass whoopings as a kid and feels entitled to have everything handed to them without earning it or deserving it. When failure is realized, it's surely because they were wronged or the game is inherently biased against them. Thence, let the bitching and whining begin.

I'd have to go along with TeQ on his reaction to seeing such childishness. It wouldn't drive me away. I'd be excited to sign up asap just to find the whiney brat and dish out more punishment.

I agree with Mortimer to an extent. If you really hate this game then why bash on it on some other site and just stop playing. Why take all that time to type out a long reason why not to play this game or why it sucks.

But then you gotta think about this. People need to express their opinion to feel better about themselves. Those who truely hate this game make themselves feel better by bashing it as hard as they can and tell everyone they can that it sucks and not to play, and in return they feel this sort of achievement that they have done a job well done or some bullsh*t. 

Aidan, I have not read the review you are talking about but I am for free speech, if you don't like it, then you have a right to say so.

HOWEVER...you need to be truthful and not discourage anyone to try it out. Over the years, the only difficulty I have run in with new players was the 'role play' part of it, some did not understand that a goomba just couldn't address a consiglieri with 'hey man' or something of the sort, which led to heated discussions. I was accused of taking the game too seriously when in actuality, they were the ones not taking it seriously enough.

Well, it was like that back then anyway.

Like some have said before me, they bash to boost themselves up but it has the contrary affect if they still play with the same name.

A louse is a louse, and for one of him, there are sooo many more who absolutely love Mafia Returns.

Let's see... this is OOC right?

Well Aidan, i think... now this is just my personal opinion on the matter. You are looking for honest answers so i will try to explain how i see this.

I dont think that the people that complain about this game actualy dont want to play it. They complain because, it is human nature.

Like when we complain at work about poor conditions. Or in the car, about the trafic and the numerous red lights. Yet... we go to work everyday and drives our cars everyday.
Why do we complain, we work and make good money. We drive so we get to where we want to get when we want to get there.

It's the same thing here, we complain because we died recently in a war and have to start over again and work our way up the ladder. It is our nature to complain, we simply love it.
I dont know why, i would never understand why... but we do it.

If people that complain still play, i guess that is because deep inside... they really enjoy the game. Otherwise, they would'nt be here, i know i would'nt.

I hope this helps bud, i dont want you to hang yourself over the matter. Just joking there! :P

I have just re-read my last post and I want to precise...when I say 'you', I mean the public in general and not Aidan. Just so there are no mis-understandings. lol

I wouldn't be too disheartened in most cases people only complain because they care about whatever it is they are complaining about.

Some of those things you've mentioned in the review aren't correct, no, but they aren't too far from the truth and I expect I'll be shot down for pointing this out. No, you don't have to pay for ALL features, but if you want to keep up with the cool kids you will need timers, and you'll be wanting to get a CA, and you'll want to keep killing those MIAs to train a gun and so on. By nature we want to do the best we can, and that means if you want to keep up to the grade you will at some point have to put your hand in your pocket and donate to get the extras that are required for advancement but aren't included for a freesies

Now before you jump on me, I'm not saying that's a horrible thing. There are bills to pay and eventually all the money we put in will come back to us when new things are added and we all see the benefits from that in the long run.

That being said, personally I would not go on a review site just to trash the game I play for the sake of it, even if I don't like some of the things that happen within it, but again that's unfortunately a direct consequence of encouraging people to vote regularly. There will be positive reviews made off the back of just getting Made Man and there will be negative ones after being refused something you want or dying. Ultimately, if the game wants people to be honest and vote then it will have to accept it when somebody is a dick and trashes the game

People will always whine. perssonally if I don't like something, I don't use it( play) I will complain to stimulate discussion. I will say something to obtain opinion. As far as MR goes.  I like the game and I fully intend to invest my time and maybe even some money into playing.  

The bottom line is there will always be issues, there will always be bugs and there always will be challenges in playing.  There will always be those that whine and those that whine about the whiners. Life will go on and You will choose. 

Whine or not to whine. MR or no MR.  

Felix, it's true that *somebody* needs to put money to generate the credits we all use, but I haven't donated for the longest time and I can afford all the features I want. Maybe I'm not the best example since I seem to spend countless hours in here and you can't expect that from the average player, but still, I wouldn't say that you need to invest real cash to rub elbows with the cool kids.

And vice versa... it takes WAAAAAY more than having timers and CAs to be accepted by *some* of the cool kids. But fortunately, there are plenty of players who are not elitist and will make your game an enjoyable experience.

Felix, you can ask enkindle or Izzy this... I have NEVER spent a penny of my own money on mafiareturns. I get by fine... I usually have 2 CA'S and get plenty of kills. The only disadvantage you have from not investing your own money is you have to work a little harder to get the things that other people buy with cash. It is FAR from impossible to get everything you need and more without donating money. The hardest part is the initial hurdle of getting 2 CA's and a DFP. Once you have these in place, it's quite easy to keep getting 2 CA's every 30 days AND spare yourself some money for credits.

If you take on a massive amount of bodyguards then it may become a problem, but as I've never been a fan of BG's (if i can't stay alive using my own skills then i dont deserve to live) I've never had this problem. I have some now, but they are quite easy for me to pay for the upkeep and it keeps me out of range of the rogues we have.

I have a friend right now who died during the war and doesn't donate for credits either... because im in such a good position I help him out with CA's and MIA'S. If you "network" enough, you'll find some very generous people out there who are willing to help. It may take a while for one of you to get in such a strong position, but hey.. for the past 18 months or so I've been scraping the bottom of the barrel myself. :P

That's just the way it goes.

Well yeah personally I haven’t donated for a long time (my bad!), and it is possible to earn it all yourself, however, DFP’s aren’t exactly easy to get hold of and not everybody has the time to sit there earning money enough to buy the credits and the like.

I expect it just comes down to convenience and dare I say it… taking a short cut. You could donate $30, and get a nice bundle of CA’s, timer and a couple of other perks and live like a King for a week without effort, and after the initial ‘investment’ future characters would have the money there to live a lavish style of MIAs other CA’s down the line, or you could start more or less from scratch and eventually build up to those things, but if you do the latter, you will fall behind the curve in terms of where other people are at.

Your gangster friend is lucky enough to have networked enough to be given those things, but what of a new player who joins up, plays and realises “Wow, some of these people are on X hours a day more than me.. I’ll never catch up!” and for that reason it can be a daunting task.

Simple. People are sour, bitter twats :)

Reply by: SammyGarcini at Nov 26, '12 18:47

Hit the fucking nail on the head there... As for 'having to pay money or be in with the cool kids' that's bullshit. I came here about 6-8 months ago - knew two people (who weren't in power positions mind you) I've gone from that, to where I've gotten today and I have not spent a dime of my own money (soz izzy)  You don't have to spend money or have an inside track to have a good time on MR - I'm living proof of that. I find it funny how people are complaining about 'cliques' and the 'in crowd' then in the same breath accuse the people at the top of being 'antisocial' no contact with the outside world etc... On another note though, People get frustrated. Shit happens... This person saying these things has obviously died just recently.. it's one - maybe two people writing negative comments, in a sea of dozens that can't find enough words to praise this site. I think it's safe to say that that one person isn't going to turn away new players all by her onesies.  Some people have trouble they think well if you want to be at the top you either have to spend untold hours clicking away, have good social and networking skills, or spend real life dollars to get ahead. But isn't that the way real life works?? If you want to be 'the best' at something you have to: A. Work the Hardest B. Have friends that can help you or C. Buy your way in... You want it given to you? When Unicef gains control of the mafia i'll give you a ring

Felix.. my friend has been playing MafiaReturns for less than 6 months. :)

He used to play another game (which i shall not mention! :P)

Well I believe (so only valid in my oppinion) there are two basic reasons one would do this.

Firstly people like to complain. I like to complain, I do it almost every day regarding some services in my daily life. Complaining lets people get their frustrations out, sure a lot of the time it will not lead to results (sometimes you even agree there is no better result) but still it is nice to get our frustrations out once and a while (arguably it is healthy to do so too). Reviews are great places to complain. For example if I thought this website was a scam to take money from people (This is not my belief as I know while it does obtain money from some people it provides them with the advertised resource in return) then I could complain here where there are satidfied customers and other people arguing and defending the website (perhaps even with facts!), or I could go to a neutral party and write a review for which there will be less argument and less judgement. As a plus if you have genuine anger with a service there is a chance your negative review could gain some retribution by harming what you are reviewing.

Someone in business once told me that if a customer is unhappy, then they are 10 times more likely to complain or leave a negative review than a happy customer. As I say people like to complain, when they feel wronged they want some form of comeback.

Anyway I am starting to digress here so shall move on to the second reason.

Reason number two is that everyone is different and people see things in different lights so to speak. In a way I can see where this person is coming from, not 100% maybe not even in every way but in some.

Why say you have to pay for all features when it's not true?

Whilst this is not a true statement (quite far from it as I have a CA ran a few JB and used timers but never paid money to the site) I think what the poster is getting at in a poorly worded way is the fact that money can help you quite a lot at times in the game. It can give an unfair advantage, you can argue all you want that you can work hard and achieve the same result, but can you really do better than someone putting in the same effort and real money? I am not wanting to get too much into this area as it is really a topic in it's own right with argument upon argument for both sides. I just want to point out why one might write what they did.

Why say this game is too time consuming

As someone has said above people want to do well, to do well in the game takes time (or time and money as issued above). The game can be very time consuming at times, for example to do well you do petty crimes which are every 3 minutes, that means every 3 minutes you need to go back to the crime. There is not a lot of real world activites you can do in between the crimes. Now you do not have to do crimes every 3 minutes but if you want to move up in rankings reasonably quick then you do. Perhaps the reviewer ment "the game can be too time consuming if you want to progress"?

People are paranoid

lol, it sometimes feels that way with the recent war.

you are shunned if you are not one of the cool kids?

At first I could not see what this was trying to say (like I said the reviewer seems to be very vauge). My initial reaction was that I am not one of the "cool kids", but the reason I stay here is the people I meet and such. I have talked briefly with other players, crew leaders, godfathers and even admins. I have never really been made to feel shunned.

However I think the user actually means "If you are not in the cool kids group you do not become a RHM or LHM or get body guards bought for you and get given a crew of your own and other such bonuses". 

I truly cannot understand is why you would go and discourage new member from joining the community.

I do not know who this person is, so can not say at all for sure, but they may not be trying to discourage new member from joining the community. Like I have said, had the comments been worded differently there is some truth in some of them. Perhaps this was intended as an honest (but harsh) review.

Why don't you just move on to another game?

Perhaps the user has some friends here and they want to keep in touch. Perhaps they stay hoping old friends will return. Perhaps they tried other games and thought badly of them all and think this is the lesser of many evils.

This has streatched way longer than I wanted it to, but I hope (though doubht lol) it answers some of your questions.

I have in my 54 years of life  found one comment basically true about people. I am convinced the same is true about game play as well. the first people I ever worked for ( when I was 11) used to say people will always Bitch and buy. It is the nature of the game. Here it could be said, "Bitch and Play".  Perhaps this is really so.