Ladies and Gentlemen, I come to grace our fair streets to pose a question to you all, those whom walk on the daily, those in the firing line so to speak.

Whilst listening to Kuku (I'm an avid listener of his speakings) He raised a point that very much got my brain ticking.

"But anyway, he's five times my age. In that time, he's had 12 speeches on the Streets, 5 of them in the past few days. On average, 10 people said something in each one, and about 238 people watched. I'm a fifth of his age and have deliberately steered clear of the Streets. Despite this, my 5 speeches attracted an average of 13 people joining in and were watched by 334 people. So, it's safe to say, more people come to the Streets when I talk than when Countdown does."

Mr Kuklinski speaks of attracting attention, now this is fine if it is the life he wishes to lead, that of a celebrity, no doubt aiming to work his way on to the infamous "Celebrity Mafioso" list. The question I pose to you Ladies and Gentlemen is, in this line of work, is attention and fame something to desire? It's obviously to be expected for the Bolds and
Leaders of our world to be well recognised for everyone knows who they are as they lead "theoretically" by example. However, for the regular people of this thing of ours, button men and associates, should it be desired and is it indeed advisable to constantly be in the limelight, under the scrutiny of every member of La Cosa Nostra?

I hope my question poses suitable food for thought.

Looking back into my lineage history, a distant relative yearned to be a CL... He got it. He got it without having set foot in IRC Avenue.

In our line of work, city hall takes care of things so that the law doesn't seem to care how well known a guy is. So, we've nothing to lose.

its all down to what makes you tick. Or, possibly, Teq, for those of a dual nature.

An interesting topic.

I don't think along the same lines as you here though, it may be true with Kuku-  (we'll have to wait for his reply) but putting myself out here for extended periods isn't about the fame. I figure that if I am out here as often as possible then people dont have to second-guess my personality. There's no need for people to ask around about what I'm like, they can see for themselves.

Yes, I enjoy the limelight to an extent, however it is more the opinions people make of me that I am interested in. I put myself for that purpose alone sometimes... to be judged. I want people to question my traits and temperament, I want people to agree, disagree, hate, love, sing and dance with me. For some reason, I enjoy being tested. Beat the hell out of monkey clicking in my book!

It is probably not an advisable way to go if you're not confident enough out here, but if you are then I say fair game. Go nuts.

I didn't mean to suggest for one second, Countdown, that speaking in the streets altogether was about being in the limelight, that would be a foolish assumption to make. These streets are here to debate, communicate and hopefully improve our way of life to the maximum standard.

And to address your point, Kuku you still have "much to lose" for being well known and seen by the potential "enemy" opens you up to targets. If you're a paranoid person, which personally, I am not. Also, the comment about being of a dual nature, I think you may be mislead me and Countdown are of different cities, on different sides of the country. We may share similar views but then I'm sure many other members of our streets do, does that make us all of a "insertstupidlyhighpluralhere" nature? I think not.

You see, Mr Kuku- does it for the sweets. He loves the candy coated chocolates but he hates the green ones. He gets them delievered to where ever he is staying at the present time and then gets to shoot/fire the person that brings him this delicious candy if it doesn't meet his standards.

I don't think it's necessary for every single mobster to come out and show off what they are thinking but I do believe that there has to be some action out here in the streets (ooc. We can't hear other people speaking in the game so for it to actually be roleplaying game then yeah there does have to be a bit of show and tell.) and it can be good for promoting business to your cousins in another city. So hell, Why not?

Yup, gonna agree with the funster above, if you're quick with comebacks and have the courage of your convictions, Street arguments can be a lot of fun.

A Kuku family favourite was always to argue with a group of people, having announced via telegram to some others that he was off to start an argument.

RJ, Prem, SpacePole were particular favourites. Also, WhereWasI, Teq, Tiggy, Grin etc

I find pointless arguments fall a long way behind well structured debate that offers constructive ideas that may form our society. Rhetoric has better uses than to simply start a bitch fight in the middle of the streets it would seem.

Don Noir, I couldn't agree more, obviously the streets serve their purpose and to suggest they didn't would be positively absurd. However, I perceive gracing our streets and striving to be a household name through our street exploits to be very different things.

Is Rhetoric a language used by fans of the main protagonist from Gone With the Wind, infused with Nordic grammar?

For someone who speaks so highly of their ancestors street skills, I must say Kuku, that I am a little disappointed in you. I thought you may have something sensible to offer to the debate and an answer to the question posed, instead.. you continue to try and drag the debate down into a chaotic argument.

A leopard can not change it's spots.

Bed beckons, to be continued...

Is Rhetoric a language used by fans of the main protagonist from Gone With the Wind, infused with Nordic grammar?

Oh my LMAO. I will be sharing that gem :)

I have to agree with Neville here, i see no place for arguments in the streets. Like many have said before me they are no place for peoples dirty laundry. Keep it behind closed doors, yes we are gangsters but gangsters in the mafia not some group of thugs robbing old ladies. Our world although illegal has a chivaric aspect. Modern day crusaders or an advancement from pirates who we all know had the finest democracy and rules (or guidlines) of their time.

Anyway to Neville's main point, a thought that has often crossed my mind. In my opinion you need to have your name recognised to get anywhere in this world. Mr Kuku I envy the time your ancestor became Crew Leader without entering the coffeeshops but I fear thats not possible today. I'm sure its the dream of many mafioso who simply dont have the time to sit in coffeeshops all day. However our world is based around who you know, its a simple fact and not one I disagree with.

I think the desire for attention and fame falls to the individual, if they want to stand around in the streets this should be encouraged and I'm sure they appreciate the intelligence boost they get from it (although I like to read in the library to improve my knowledge). If by standing around in the streets they draw ill feeling then on their heads be it.

On the other hand if people dont grace the streets with as much presence that is also their choice and they reap the reward of being incognito but may be halted by not having the same amount of contacts.

Personally the ones I admire the most are those or rarely grace the streets but when they do they speak with such strength and wisdom. Mabye the odd comment or speech that will be far more remembered than ten speeches of someone who is constantly in the limelight. Thats the sort of mafioso I aspire to be.

Deadly pauses to listen to Neville speak.

In answer to the topic at hand... some people live for the limelight. Some people steer as far from the limelight as they possibly can. Both of these styles serve specific purposes, whether it is simply going unnoticed or not wanting to be subject to the scrutiny of everyone in this thing of ours; either out of fear or any other reason. And as you say getting yourself noticed on the streets in a good way, sitting quite visibly in the limelight can lead to great opportunities heading your way.

He pauses to think for a second on another comment that caught his attention.

I actually believe that a leopard can change it's spots... or at least that people and bloodlines can evolve over time.

I will point you to your own bloodline to illustrate this point Neville, and to Countdown's. I think we all remember how hot headed the bloodline of Father_TeQ could be, and I remember that same trait in your bloodline when they first arrived.

It is possible indeed to change - it just takes time and a real reason to actually want to change for people to truly change. It also takes a lot of hard work, and self control. What Countdown and multiple others have done in changing their reputation, I find to be very inspiring and a true show of exactly what people can do when they really want to.

I am inclined to agree with you DeadlySin, you pose a very good point there. However, would you agree that if a degree of fame is to be achieved, it should be done so through "correct methods" so to speak rather than just through inane ramblings or stupidity for the sake of being, for lack of a better term, an attention whore?

I agree, in part on your second point however I don't personally believe I have stopped being hotheaded, I feel instead I have learned to channel it more constructively, I cannot however speak for Countdown. I was perhaps, a little hasty when i said that a leopard cannot change it's spots however, for someone who claims to have changed and be going about this life in a proper manner, to retort to such tactics baffles me. Maybe I'm just old fashioned...

There's a difference between fame and infamy, just to be clear. Both may get you known, but the results of the two are vastly different and there's only one that most people would ever hope to achieve.

I'd also point out some flaws in the original synopsis of data presented by Kuku and which was quoted at the start. Numbers don't tell the story. Speaking of replies in numbers alone completely ignores the quality or content of those replies. If a speech receives nothing but one sentence retorts, shouted from a distance as a smartass reply, does that make it a better speech? Of course not. If one thousand times more people listen to a speech but instantly forget its content, is that speech influencing more people than a well thought out speech which actually changes feelings and opinions? Of course not. So to try and boil something as subjective as presence in this thing of ours to numbers alone is a flawed hypothesis at best.

I love street presence. In fact I adore it. I celebrate those who can achieve it and encourage those who lack it to try and achieve it. Engagement via the streets is the at heart of this thing of ours and is vital to our very existence. However, rambling on with random meaningless figures and not really coming to a specific point isn't improving the streets, it's simply noise pollution.

As for the original question, "in this line of work, is attention and fame something to desire?", it depends what you mean. Is it required that someone desires it? No, of course not. Is it bad if someone desires it? No, but it's also not bad if they do desire it. It's simply a question of that persons personal opinions and beliefs as to whether they want it or not. The only thing that can be bad is how they might go about achieving it. That applies equally as much to avoiding attention as it does seeking it. If someone is afraid to raise their head above the parapet when it's required, it's equally as bad as someone our attention seeking and trying to achieve infamy.