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Rebuild or Reinvent? Started by: G_man on May 16, '13 12:34

G had been listening in on a debate on another street corner which had him thinking. G didn't like to think too much it hurt his head and made him grouchy but it had already started and as the cogs turned he decided that he needed bring the subject to the masses and get them to do the thinking for him.

Good morning Ladies and Gentleman, the world that was here last week has changed dramatically as we all know and the leaders are busy trying to keep up with housing all us mobsters and trying to get some stability and order. I come to the streets today to talk about something that was mentioned just over there.

G points to where Mikala was standing.

Mikala got me thinking about reinventing rather than rebuilding this thing of ours, not just following the blueprint that has been set before us. I agree the foundations need to be reinvented whether or not that will happen we will have to wait and see.

I personally would like to see a couple of things change. We now have districts that can each have a Godfather, in what we had seen before the war each city was governed by the first Godfather so the Godfathers in each district would work under the first Godfather, surely the way we should move this forward is that each district is governed by the Godfather or in the cases we have now the head of the district. Maybe the Godfather/District head has to kick up some money to the central Godfather. It may just create the variation that some people crave.

My second change would be to change our micromanagement ways. Our way of life is simple but I fear we over complicate it at times. We all know the do's and don'ts of this world and don't need to look at the rules in our HQ to know right from wrong but I would like to change our micromanagement of pick pocketing and mugging. In theory nobody should claim friendliness to pick pocketing,  everyone should be able to do as they please if I see someone and I think they have a fair bit of change in their pocket I may chance my hand. If they see me and decide to mug me that should be their decision not one implemented from the rules of their family. One day you may be in a foul mood and mug anyone that dares come near you but the next maybe your birthday and you are feeling generous and want to let it slide. It should not have to be determined by what our rules are and it shouldn't have to be stitched onto our suits for everyone to see.

Those are just my ideas. So let me open this up if you could reinvent our world how would you go about it?

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...surely the way we should move this forward is that each district is governed by the Godfather or in the cases we have now the head of the district.

I think you'll find if you look at the last war that a number of districts did make their own moves under the guidance of their individual leaders. Leaders will carve out whatever alliances and bonds they feel are in the best interest of their family. If that means following the 'leader' of a city, that's what they'll do. If that means being independent from the city and carving out their own little niche, that's what they'll do. Leadership is about far more than rank and location. It's about being... well, a leader... and doing things like... well, leading. This isn't something new related to districts, it was the exact same when our world had eight individual cities; this has always and will always be the case. 

A strong leader will have loyal and numerous followers. A weak one will have disloyal and few followers. Being a leader isn't about rank and location, it's about inspiring those around you, making them wish to follow you and gaining their trust and loyalty that they are willing to lay down their lives for you without hesitation or question. Some excel at this and it comes naturally to them, others can never hope to achieve it.

This is already how our world works, though people do often feign fake allegiances in the hope of improving their own position at times, so I can't see anything new or different in the suggestion if I'm honest.

 

It should not have to be determined by what our rules are and it shouldn't have to be stitched onto our suits for everyone to see.

Some leaders might be happy to implement rules like this, others won't in order to keep harmonious relations and to achieve a quiet life. If it's something you wish to see, try finding a leader that agrees with your views on it and then support them strongly. 

If you're hoping to see a concept like this mass introduced throughout each city, take the time to approach the powers that be with a clear and valid justification for it and put the case to them. The reality of the matter is that most leaders don't really care what happens in terms of these actions, they just introduce the rules to keep petty squabbles on this matter to a minimum and allow them to focus on things that actually matter.   

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Hello mister g_man. I must say i have to agree with your idea of districts, each districts can have godfather so logical thing is that those godfathers actually run districts on their own instead of 1 godfather running whole set of districts thats why why actually have districts. I mean if one godfather will run every district in one city then what is point of making districts.

For idea about pick pocketing and mugging to be honest i dont care much but i guess that idea isnt bad either.

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Alphonse stands out from the crowd

I think districts should be ruled by Don's. Only one Godfather per city should be allowed. Four Godfathers or even more per city is not a good idea. We can't change our ways because we've decided to split cities into districts. Pick pocketing is a problem. How can anyone claim friendliness to pick pocketing? Isn't that an attack?

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Alphonse, I'm curious why you think a Godfather in each district is a bad idea, furthermore why we can't change our ways?
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Sexecutioner, everyone has own opinion. I think that city should be ruled by one Godfather where district leaders are subordinate to him. After all, he gave auth to those people to form their families am I right?

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So? What if a Godfather did give a leader the right to run a crew? Irrespective of whether or not a person auths you, once you get a crew, it's yours and you make the decisions for the betterment of the people who work for you. If a Don feels that his/her Godfather is running the city into the ground, he/she will jump ship at the first real opportunity.

Also, by your logic, Alphonse. If a Godfather was to permit a person to leave his city and set up elsewhere, the new leader would be independent but one who has earned the title of Godfather of a district won't... Why exactly?

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Camulus thanking for taking your time to comment on the topic. I agree with a lot of what you said, but I can only go by the journals left to me about how things were run in the city my ancestor was in. During the 8 cities alliances were formed by cities but say the Godfather in New Orleans he/she would not have a say on what happens in the day to day running of what happens with the city the Las Vegas that is also controlled by a Godfather.

I don't know if this applied in the four cities before the war but the first Godfather of that city would oversee what happened in each district rather than each district being left to the Godfather to control. The rank of Godfather was just by title as they would still have to report to the main Godfather.

Yes it is for the easy life to micromanage pick pocketing and  mugging but consider what we claim to be,  we should be able to sort out such things between us without running to say how hard done by we feel. My philosophy is simple in this case if you don't want to be mugged don't pick pockets.

I haven't come out here to try and enforce change by speaking on the streets, I know that is not how things work I am just putting my thoughts out there to see one what people think and two what ideas people have themselves.

Thank you Vashta.

Alphonse you can have your own opinion but you need to elaborate a bit more because as it stands you have not really put forward why each district shouldn't have a Godfather.

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With due respect G_Man it's simple as this: Without Cpt-Harris auth in Chicago nobody would be able to start crew in Chicago, and if you need authorization for something from someone then you are not independent. Why is our Godfather posting new auth. permissions for new crews? It's because he is Godfather of Chicago.


Respect.

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Alphonse, who is it you think should be doing the authing for each district? These people who have been thrown into the position of CL so that housing can be provided? It is well known during any other time most of these people would not be authed and I know of one that failed miserably before.

Until such time as everyone is housed and things stabilize unorthodox approaches must be taken.

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Fair enough Alphonse. I wasn't suggesting you weren't entitled to an opinion.


I on the other hand agree with G_man. In my opinion, the advent of districts opened our world to all kinds of possible scenarios. More so when certain changes such as extended travel time fatiguing us comes into effect. The concept of a city is changing. Multiple Godfathers within a city could lead to more internal conflicts, more political intrigue, an overall more interesting dynamic in a world that a majority of its occupants regularly complain of stagnancy.


It really made no sense that Godfathers were barking up to other Godfathers, subservient to people of equal rank to them. Given that certain powers (DeadlySin, Phil_Steak, SammyGarcini) were already in place when districts went into effect, it wasn't surprising that those powers remained in the top dog spots. Cities such as CHI had stated publicly that they would remain united. That was all well and good, but it didn't have to be that way. Did the Godfathers from Philly and NY that took up arms against Phil_Steak and DeadlySin "turn against their own city"? I would argue that they did not. They were Godfathers of their own crime syndicates who made alliances with other crime syndicates to remove powers that they felt were holding them back and effecting the way they wanted to run their businesses. While that may sound like an outrageous and despicable concept to a lot of you, it sounds like the Mafia to me.


As thing progress and our economy and structure repairs itself, the concept and notions of a "city" might become antiquated. One district within a city may take issue with their neighboring factions and war it out internally. Just because its different than the way it's always been doesn't make it bad or wrong.


The advent of districts I believe was put into place by city hall to help the mafia underground expand. Clinging to the old-fashioned concept of "one city" like we saw prior to the war really only cheapens the title of Godfather. This most recent war and the massive carnage that ensued was the first step in correcting that.

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Mikala heard her name mentioned by G_man and walked across the street to listen to him.

Good to hear what I said about reinventing made you think. Like I said about street presence in the other discussion, I hope people take time to think and reconsider how they view things. The world is ours and now is the time for real change, not just new names in bold and changes we only get from the Gods.

You brought up one of the biggest changes we've seen in our world, districts. With the division of cities and the option for a Godfather to be in every district there are endless possibilities how leaders can structure their cities and districts. I hate to repeat myself again, but as I said about leaders being carbon copies of other leaders, cities and districts don't have to be carbon copies either.

I was going to bring up pick pocketing in the other discussion, but I didn't want my gorgeous face punched. My bloodline's view of this has changed over the generations. It started as pick pocketing was wrong and an attack. Basically, how dare a Wise Guy steal money from a Made Man! One of my ancestors felt so strongly she publicly disagreed with her Godmother about it. Some where along the line my relatives gave up debating about it and accepted pick pocketing was a part of our business as much as robbing post offices and wacking bums.

Mugging was brought into the business and the uproar was almost as loud as post war speeches. Then we saw rules such as, don't mug leaders and hands, don't mug people from your city and a frequent quote used by mobsters, if you mug me I'll shoot you. My God, it's as if mugging is as bad as murder. Instead of all this focus on mugging how about a little more focus on pick pocketing? If a mobster pick pockets another mobster who isn't friendly to it it's disrespectful. Stealing 5k might not be a big deal to some, but respect should be. I've heard the complaint, mugging is a punishment that doesn't fit the crime. If that's the case then fine the pick pocketing assailant one million dollars to be paid to the victim and one million dollars to be paid to the Godfather of the turf where the disrespect occurred.

Back to the points of reinventing and reconsidering, I'm not just here to tell other people what I hope they do. I intend to practice what I preach. My relatives who recently worked in the mafia were not heard frequently on the streets. They preferred business districts. If I have something to say on the streets I'll say it instead of using the reasons they did for not talking out here. For now I think I've said enough.

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There is a lot to take in here. One godfather . . . four godfathers . . . districts . . . cities . . . etc. So, even with the fear or repeating others, I'll put my own 2¢ in here.

A clear and defined chain of command is very important. A ship doesn't have four captains. It has one captain, one rudder. But, she has multiple sails. The title godfather is an important one, and too many godfathers spoil the soup/city. However, it is unfair not to bestow a title upon someone who deserves it.

I propose this . . . it is my understanding that the full benefits of Godfather are not truly bestowed upon the person and crew unless said godfather shores up his staff to only 10 people, and delegates the rest of his family to other leaders. What if there was only ONE godfather with a 10 person crew, and others who have achieved title maintain their larger crews. It allows them the title of godfather for their district, but there is still one leader to steer the course of the city (most likely with the aid, support, and counsel of the other godfathers).

In regards to picking pockets, I view it as a fun little game to play. A version of "tag" if you will. So you're out at most $5,000. If you don't like it, stop walking around with all your folding money in your wallet. Or carry an extra $5,000 for your losses. After all, our bank accounts are all usually big enough to withstand a hit of a few dollars. When someone takes the game too far and pokes and eye out . . . I mean mugs, the emotional trauma can prevent us from traveling or committing another felony. A mug has real ramifications and picking pockets does not. If you don't want to play with the other mobsters, then say so and sit out. Otherwise, have fun with it. Those who refuse to be picked have always seemed like poor sports to me. I haven't ever been given a great reason for not being pick pocket friendly. I don't think it has anything to do with respect or disrespect. It's just something fun to do from time to time.

But, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
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During the 8 cities alliances were formed by cities but say the Godfather in New Orleans he/she would not have a say on what happens in the day to day running of what happens with the city the Las Vegas that is also controlled by a Godfather.

This wasn't always the case.

It might have been the normal scenario and it might have always 'appeared' to be how things were run, but looking through my own journals I can cite numerous times when it wasn't what was actually happening. Some Godfathers will always be stronger than others, whether that's due to their own gun or their respective hit squads, and with that power they can and sometimes did decide to exert that power onto other cities. 

There were no 'rules' they had to follow, each Godfather decided for themselves how to run their city and how to interact with the other cities around them. It was no different then than it is now. Some will be strong leaders, will force their will on others and will make things be run 'their way'. Others will be subservient yes men, will toe the line when told and will do whatever lets them survive to the next day. Some will fall into a grey area between the two, doing what they believe best serves them in individual situations.   

 

I don't know if this applied in the four cities before the war but the first Godfather of that city would oversee what happened in each district rather than each district being left to the Godfather to control. The rank of Godfather was just by title as they would still have to report to the main Godfather.

Again, this is no different to how things were in the past. It might cause 'more' people to fall into this scenario now given the close proximity of the districts to each other within a city, but it doesn't force anyone to follow a single leader within a city and it's down to the leaders within that city to how the city will be run. We'll see times when each follows a single powerful leader within the city, as we saw just before the last war, and we'll see times when each district stands independent with their own loyalties and allegiances. 

If we ever find ourselves in a situation where we have a single extremely powerful figure, they could just as easily decide to auth 'their people' into a district in each of the four cities as having four auths within their own city. How cities and districts are run is down to the decisions of leaders. If a leader is strong, people will follow their decisions and that's how the city will be. If a leader isn't strong enough and doesn't have the skills to get others to follow, well then they're not really a leader and the city will crumble around them. 

Long story short, there are no rules here. A strong leader makes their own rules. How cities and districts interact and are run is a decision for those in positions of leadership to decide. They can replicate what has been done by others, they can come up with new structures that work for them or they can mix a little of both. The only limit on the freedom of how a city can be run is a persons imagination and their will, or strength, to bring their vision to reality.

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