4 hour tags are fairly new to me, I've returned to the game after a fairly substantial break and this is my first account since this feature has been implemented. After reading the admins notification of this change here, one thing immediately became clear to me:

Killing people with 4 hour tags really isn't a big deal. The change here isn't just a continuation of some old standard. The admins change specifically separated '4hs' from '-1s'. Whereas minus ones are by design intended to dissuade people from shooting 'don't do this, it literally harms your account'; 4hs are relatively ambiguous - 'shoot this if you want, it literally has no effect on your account. It probably isn't worth it as you're just wasting your timer for an hour'. Really, to me, this intimates to things. First, that the risk or chance of someone shooting a 7 day old account with <4 hours of playing time and turning that player off the game is far less likely than shooting a -1. Secondly, that the open ended nature of the effect of shooting one of these accounts is leaving the users free to make their own decisions rather than just restricting them with code.

However, when faced with something new the collective userbase has responded in the same way it has in the 10 years I've been playing this game. Ban it! Just as mugging in it's original form was banned, just as mugging as a response to PP has been banned (with caveats) and just as people spoke at length over banning dueling before Izzy had to step in. In this case, it makes literally no sense. Let's consider things from an OOC perspective

Why ban or police it - OOC?

- First of all there is the assumption that killing 4 hour accounts has a negative impact on the game. Arguably, this may be true on a gangster that is say 2 or 3 days old. Even then, the chances are slim - if someone is shootable with the 4h tag it means they have created an account and logged in again at least 2 days later and still not amassed 4 hours of gameplay. Not promising, but i would say the killing of a 4h gangster less than 4 days old is worth looking into. It's 'debatable'

- As is more often the case, though, these accounts are 7 days old. From the new user's perspective, they have made an account, logged into it after 2 days, and have still not amassed 4 hours and/or have failed to find a family after a week. You may claim that shooting this player has a negative impact on the game. Conversely, I may claim you are talking shit.

- To take this concept further, to claim that each 4hr gangster who dies could be a user who leaves the game as a result is totally disingenuous. It is speculation. I could speculate that punishing each perpetrator who shoots these accounts has a negative effect on the game as they may not want to play a game where an account that has <4 hours effort is valued more than (to use myself an example) an account that has 357.61 hours.

- To take this concept further still, when the majority of these 4h deaths are variations on 'the gangster was 7 days and was shot slightly early', enforcing this 'rule' becomes arbitrary. It is no longer about a rule that helps newer members; it's a rule that is created and then simply followed for it's own sake.

- From a logical standpoint, it is a nightmare. If, as I say, most of these killings are just seconds short of 7 days (which they are) then you need more than the ws to ascertain guilt or wrongdoing. If the 4h gangster is shot in the same minute as it's due to go IA, you're going to need a screenshot with the gangster's status as dead and the 4h tag along with it to confirm whether the shooter is guilty or not. This being the case, I am very glad I am not one of these hapless souls who have to run around (entirely of their own volition it must be said) chasing these w/ses. This does not sound fun. I play this game because I want a fun time, not because I want to recreate that feeling where my boss gives me a task that makes me think 'Well, this certainly sounds like a lot of work for absolutely no end result. Yay!'

Why ban or police it - RP

This will be very quick because the short answer is a ban makes no sense whatsoever. There is maybe a case that if you are below made, your sponsor may not take kindly to what is seen as a random act of violence. If you're made, it's fair game. Made men were untouchable, literally. You were not allowed to touch them without permission. If a made man didn't like your shoes, tough shit - you might catch a beating. This is a fact of the mob that is referenced in almost any 'serious' mob-inspired drama or movie you might care to mention. The idea that a Mob boss would clip, or even financially punish, a made guy who was a part of his family over the death of an unaffiliated bum is totally ridiculous. I would feel confident in saying that there is no record of it ever having happened in the Sicilian/Italian Mafia - either in Europe or the States.

I don't play this game to see what it would be like working for a recruitment company. I don't base my character's actions around 'what are the new users going to appreciate here?' I base them around 'what do I think a member of the mafia would do in this situation?'. I realise there is a balance and we are community driven - I've personally never been a fan of the 48 hour rule because it seems so un-moblike, but I can appreciate why it is there and the purpose it serves.

The 4h matter is different, though; the admins have clearly set out their stalls by making them 1. shootable and 2. incurring no ill effects to your account if you shoot them; and the response has been to ban the shooting of them for reasons that simply don't add up or even exist; either in RP or OOC terms.

That's my take, anyway.

It is a very good Question i myself have returned after a long stay off and didnt understand what the 4HR ment.

Now the thing is we both know that every family has a room full of rabid hunters now these guys know the different and how to hunt these 4 hour bums,

If there is some people killing them and not gaining the + i guess these hunters miss out that in it self will upset these people,

As much as we hate to say it the power of the gun is all that matters.

If there is some people killing them and not gaining the + i guess these hunters miss out that in it self will upset these people,

Nail on the head. That's the only real reason that I see for people getting their knickers in a twist as we all know that the majority of these were mainly down to an admin error that promoted the under 7days accounts to Gangster awarding them the 4H tag, so really the only reason to chase down these W/S was because someone missed out on the kill.

However, that said, I'd go back to someone Cantona said;

I realise there is a balance and we are community driven

For that reason alone, I do agree we shouldn't be standing by and allowing 4H characters to be shot without any regard, but the recent spate of "errors" isn't a big deal.