A few other Crew Leaders and Hands discussed something in the coffee shop the other day. It was pertaining to the death of Gangsters that still hold the -4h tag and are being wacked left and right. The problem with it is, is that hitters are getting irritated due to properly waiting for the tag to be removed and it actually being a plus to your weapon. While it's not against the rules to wack a gangster over 48 hours, it is however useless while your gun doesn't gain anything from it. So the unwritten rule is you just don't do it until they're eligible to be shot. And yet new hitters still shoot before the tag is removed. 

Regardless how that conversation ended, what is the difference between shooting a Gangster with a -4h tag and shooting a Gangster with a -48 tag? Is there really one? 

The powers that be have addressed this with the -4h tag trying to lean us on giving fresh off the boat gangsters a chance in the life before getting shot by some hitter who's training a gun. So with this, they made it literally useless to shoot at a Gangster who still sports the 4h tag and is roughly 7 days old. The only satisfaction you get is the knowing fact that you can kill a untrained Gangster. There is no reward.

The next question I bring to our streets is why do we allow young hitters to shoot these 4h tagged Gangsters and get away with it? Or do they simple just do not know that the 4h tag must be removed before they pull their trigger to gain a notch in their belt?

The meat and potatoes of all this is, how do we solve this problem? Do we retain or reteach our hitters that these 4h tagged Gangsters are of no benefit when you kill them and tell them not to do it? Or are there better methods of preventing our veteran hitters from getting these kills?

BrickTop heard the 'discussion in the coffeshop, it was less of a discussion and more like the sound of an illegal dog fight, where both dogs won. The deaths of these mafioso with their -4hr tags are, by rules of the city, Illegal.

The shooting of anyone who is wearing either of the -1 or 4h tag is strictly prohibited.

Posted by Cpt-Harris on May 27, '13 14:11

The shooting of anyone with the tag of 4h in their profile is forbidden inside Detroit

Posted by QuintenTarantino on Jul 13, '13 18:58

New York will be respecting the 4hr unsponsored peoples, they should be left alone to find a family, unless they attack someone or until they go inactive, or refuse to join a family for an extensive amount of time.

Posted by Ladyfighter on Jun 01, '13 07:29  

 Shooting of anyone who is wearing a -1 or 4hr tag is not allowed.

Posted by Bianca on Jun 26, '13 00:27

Every city has a rule enforced to make these killings Illegal, so why are people getting away with it? IF one of your hitters shoots someone before they loose their tag, they should be punished. Now, i personally put it up to the people who make the rules to enforce them. If you have this rule set under your name, it is up to you to enforce it. (if not yourself personally, you should have someone do it on your behalf). I expect any of the members in my crew  who make this mistake to come forward and face the consequences, if not, the consequences will be more severe.

So why are people getting away with it? laziness to find out who took the shot? Or is it the inability to actually prove if the 4h tag was there or not? the only proof you have if someones word, but if that is the word of a trusted member of society, is that not good enough?

So what should be in for these people shooting the 4h tags, death? demotion? a fine? a public name and shame apology? This has not been established as far as im aware, there is no set punishment for this crime. We all know shooting an active person will get you killed, but it can be argued these people are not active, so why should there be a punishment? Well, its against the rules set by the leaders, so there should be a punishment, determined by the people who make these rules.

Mike, you mention do we need to train our hitters better? Im sure every family out here has a Hit Squad Leader, is it not their job to teach the hitters? are these HSL's failing in their jobs? So should they be punished? Or it that just passing the blame onto someone else? Or maybe it is the Cl who is fault? after all the Cl is responsible for who they choose to be in their family, and if they cant teach their family are they a good leader?

Anyway, far too many questions there, basically rules are in place but no one is following up on these rules, allowing people to get away with shooting these tagged mafioso, which should not be allowed. People need to start enforcing the rules they set.

Ziva is out walking her dog, an aged Alsatian named Leroy Jethro Gibbs. Quite a specific name for an dog, yes, but perhaps one day there might be a human who could match up to the greatness of her beloved dog. Gibbs, as Ziva usually called him, had been a faithful companion to Ziva, and in his younger days had been quite the young and agile dog, with many tricks up his sleeve, however now, he preferred to sit in Ziva's office and bark at associates til they did things like bring him food and stroke him behind the ears and generally worship - and fear him.

Upon hearing MikeHunt's speech, Ziva feels a jolt of inspiration. For many years now, she'd been trying to train Jethro to do a backward somersault, to little success and usually the dog giving her a look of disgust that felt almost like a smack around the head. Stopping dead, she turns to the dog, and tries to encourage him to try the somersault one more time, once again meeting the same look of disgust. Indeed, if a dog could roll it's eyes, Jethro would've rolled his eyes at Ziva. Sighing, she turns to MikeHunt.

I can report that when trying to teach an old dog new tricks, one will frequently experience little to no success. If a dog can live perfectly happily without learning said new trick, without causing any real harm, he won't bother to learn it.

Rubbing Jethro behind the ears, she carries on her walk.

BrickTop you probably bring up the most interesting point to this debate yet. The fact that every city has this in their rules and this is going unpunished is appalling. I thank you for bringing this to my attention. I can only speak for my district but from here on out we will actively be seeking for witness statements regarding these kills. And if anyone comes across one of their own for the district I work for, please mail to myself as I'll handle it according. I mean go ahead and look at our district rules. We want to enforce this with all means necessary. 

I remember when you got killed if you accidentally shot too early on a Gangster that had recent activity in the past 48 hours and was still unsponsored. It was the common practice to shoot at these targets back then due to the low amount of RIAs at the time. And when you were caught or even if you confessed to this accident, more than likely the punishment was death. And under special circumstances there were tremendous amounts of cash given to the next of kin of the Gangster. Regardless there is no punishment as of now. 

I would recommend going to a hybrid system where you paid a tax at first, and then the next time would be death. 

A wise man once told me that if we are relaxed with the expectations we allow for ourselves, then our standards as whole start to decline.

I would hold more than 1 person accountable BrickTop. You asked if it was the HSL or the CL at fault and I believe its both. A Crew Leader needs to know whats going on, whats being trained on, and whats being enforced. He needs to be the enforcer even and set the standard instead of letting it slide like it has been.

And Miss Ziva, dogs can be tricky at times to teach new tricks but eventually they learn. A dog might cry and put it's tail between it's legs but at the end of the day the dog knows it's master. 

MikeHunt threw a bone towards her dog Jethro as they were walking away...

After overhearing whispers in the coffee shop Yoga quietly translated his thoughts into his crisp new notebook that he recently acquired when a young recruit of the city attempted to book him in - Floga has his badge number now,  He might come in useful.

​Yoga instructs his personnel to visit Mikes HQ with a message. LiviaMancini is handed a note which reads:

I feel there area number of factors contributing to the slaughter of our badges:

1. Those new to the game may not fully understand the game dynamics resulting in a lack of understand  regarding how to correctly identify personal events of interest and do not realize how to correctly communicate these events - therefore resulting in a lack of punishment /  identification.

2. The ability to carry out such an action against a badge holder. This point may be somewhat mute but a technical solution implemented by family leaders may allow for the dictation of who and when people can fire. Perhaps the auth feature should be re purposed, with those shoosing to ignore this course of action (requesting auth) more severe punishments / more statements being release / more witnesses.

3. there are various roles within families including hitters / money makers etc. Perhaps we need to be able to identify who is doing what in our families with a little more accuracy / information. Perhaps there is additional room in our families for those with additional skills(such as surveillance) to help the upper structures get a handle on information on who is doing what within the family. This way families may not have to rely on other perhaps duped statement to arrive in leaders mail boxes. Some food for thought in this one.

It is a true shame that the people who were so against this have not engaged in this debate.

Yoga, I completely agree on your first two reasons. I definitely think that people do not know the mechanics of it. And thats all it breaks it down to. I strongly feel that if people are going to set the rules, they should enforce them as well. The third reason is interesting at best. I am just one to not mix my earners and hitters together. The less people know about my hitters, the better.

Again though, I was really looking for someone to come out here and debate how they dislike this movement just like they had in the coffee shops.