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| Made Men??? | Started by: Mac on Dec 11, '08 18:35 |
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It seems since others are trying with some success these days to provoke debate and change, be it Oasis with his great idea on witness statements for attempted Wacks, or be it Killer6 with his attempt at getting everyone to take omerta more seriously and for want of a better term, to 'harden the fuck up'. It is now my turn to bring my greivance with the way things are done. How is it we so often see a thug/gangster in the position of RHM or LHM? Does being made into a family mean nothing anymore. Surely if you trust a mobster enough for him/her to rank to the position of made man, then you should trust that same mobster with being your RHM/LHM, or at least more so that a newly arrived gangster Granted this is not always possible in the current system where a new family may recruit only gangsters and build his family from that point, but why are gangsters getting these coveted positions when there are made men and above in a family. A prime example of this I suppose is after a war, where the RHM is shot down, and their kin return to sit in the same hotseat. Granted, they will be trained in the area, and of great use to their CL, but, how is anyone supposed to gain experience if the same people keep holding these same positions? |
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It's all a matter of trust. Historically we have seen "Made Men" that are trusted HQ entire families, remove guns, drop families. It comes down to trust. If a Thug is more trustworthy, then that is the choice the leader has made and you should respect it rather than question it. Obviously there is a reason. |
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| Reply by: Angel at Dec 11, '08 18:37 | |
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Oh and trust with the Boss' personal correspondence... Trust with the Boss' money... Trust with the Boss' reputation... See.. Common factor being trust. Willingness to do the job, ability to do the job... |
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| Reply by: Angel at Dec 11, '08 18:41 | |
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It sounds like this is another case of "sour grapes" for someone being passed over for a position of leadership within a crew. Angel has hit the nail entirely on the head (she's an excellent carpenter but that is a story for another day). If I was a leader, I would select the person I trusted MOST to be my RHM member of the family. The RHM carries much more than just a designation of rank, they are the second most important member of the family and are essentially another ambassador. How is anyone supposed to gain experience from these circumstances? You do what EVERYONE ELSE has done before. Start small. Volunteer to run a subcrew or something along those lines. Help sort crew earnings or collect witness statements. PROVE to your leader that you are capable of doing a good job and maybe somewhere down the line you will be selected as a RHM/LHM for the family. |
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| Reply by: RourkeyRourke at Dec 11, '08 18:42 | |
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| And as another aside, complaining in the various forums about these sort of topics are usually a "death sentence" for your chances of being a RHM/LHM. | |
| Reply by: RourkeyRourke at Dec 11, '08 18:43 | |
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Oasis 4 King of World. He also suggested "quick reply" so what a stand up guy rly. let's look at LHM thoguh, i would say this closely mirrors the positions of "consigliere". In real life, consiglieres were very, very rarely made members, they were advisors with no clear cut ties to the family; so they rarely had police trouble. As far as realism goes, I'd like to see RHM as Made Members, and LHM not. In practise though, this will never happen. RHM will go to the most trusted and experienced member, regardless of rank. Sorry for typos, Im a giant pissead. |
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| Reply by: KingOfOnePercent at Dec 11, '08 18:44 | |
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Nice on Mac. Sticking to the RP side of things, I would have to agree with you. But on a realistic level, there are those who work hard for their bosses, but don't have the experience to be in the RHM/LHM position. The only way that I would see a lower ranking member being trusted enough, is if the boss knew that members father for instance. Knowing that the son knows the ropes as he has seen his daddy do it. I wouldn't think that it would be a bad idea letting members ranking from gangsters/goombas up taking the position of RHM/LHM, allowing someone else the opportunity for a day or two to see what goes on behind the scenes. But this is purely from an RP perspective. |
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| Reply by: MickeyRourke at Dec 11, '08 18:48 | |
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Angel, my point is this...can you not trust your made men? I see your point about the person with the best ability to do the job, but, how is anyone else expected to get that ability should they not get a chance to work in that position? RourkeyRourke, to answer your question, I do not covet a position of LHM, nor of RHM, what I covet is educated debate. This is a topic not about me, but about the community as a whole, and whether or not this is a way of improving what we already have. It may be the case that this is not the best way to proceed, and it is proving not to the most popular one, fair enough, but it is up for debate. Just as an aside though, I am more than happy with my position the Riot, and think that in itself is more than enough of an accomplishment. KingOfOnePercent, That's actually not a bad idea, although, from what has been said so far, maybe the idea of putting the RHM as your most trusted mobster, be it gangster or Consig, whilst having a LHM as more of a RHM in training would be a good idea. The idea then that the LHM must hold a position of made or higher, would be a decent compromise...in my eyes |
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| Reply by: Mac at Dec 11, '08 18:59 | |
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Would you trust every single Made Man in your family with your personal correspondence? Your money? Not to go insane and kill your entire family? Not to needlessly take the rank your members have earned away? To punish everyone? I have seen TRUSTED Right Hands kill their family members, take their guns, drop them, demote them.. They were given that position because of their rank and because their boss thought they could be trusted. I'm a lowly Gangster now, but give me 10 more days and I'll be a happy Made Man. Sure it's not Role Play but like I said, the position has been abused in the past. I even remember at one time a "trusted" Made Man was given the position of Right Hand and HQed 40 members of a family.. He was given the position because of his rank. It's trust thing. Sure you can trust a Made with some things.. But there are just some things you cannot base trust upon rank. |
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| Reply by: Angel at Dec 11, '08 19:08 | |
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Angel, what I am questioning here is whether or not being made is such a big deal anymore, surely if someone gets made, then they should be trusted, this is the reason people cannot rank past wise guy without the intervention of their Crew Leader. You have a lot of experience on here, and it stands to you, however, those few instances that you mention represent the worst of the mobsters on here. Surely not every mobster on here would treat the position of being made/RHM with such distain as to HQ 40 people. There will always be the odd few on here that would take advantage of a situation like this, and place their own interests above that of the family's, however I would hope that these few are in the minority. Let me make something clear, I'm not saying this is the correct answer, I am saying that this merits discussion. Would it be preferable to keep ideas/ discussions private or to air them and see what everyohne thinks? |
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| Reply by: Mac at Dec 11, '08 20:21 | |
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| Mac, in reality a low ranked mobster shouldnt really have that position.. I mean at one day old these mobsters barely know the familys rules - let alone they have somehow learned the drug trade and earned the trust of the boss and his associates. I suppose a very few expections can be made, in rp - my brother, wife, etc.. given positions based on their close associations with the leader but it should be vary rare. | |
| Reply by: TonyPerez at Dec 11, '08 21:07 | |
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Mac, I agree with you 100%. While I've been bold I've tried to always make my RH and LH people Made Man and up. I don't understand why a Made Man in a crew should take orders from a lower rank RHM. It doesn't make sense. I understand the point of putting people you trust in those positions, but if someone earns his button he must've also earned the trust of the CL not to go rogue, so why not trust him with more responsibility? When I look back at these "good old days" as Zoey the thing I will be most proud of is taking the player, Oops/TheDean under my wing, teaching him a few things he became good at and then giving him the job as my RHM. There were other people I knew longer and have a lot more experience I could have chosen as my RHM, but I wanted to give a young new player an opportunity. Nothing bores me more and makes the game more stagnant to me than seeing the same people with power all the time. |
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| Reply by: Zoey at Dec 11, '08 21:45 | |
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| OH MAH LORD. I knew i loved you for a reason Zoey. | |
| Reply by: SirSammyRourke at Dec 11, '08 21:54 | |
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| I think Zoey is 100% right, totally on the money | |
| Reply by: Demetri_Balkovich at Dec 12, '08 00:24 | |
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One of the things that has been mentioned here is that in Role Play it's probably a good idea. Well, I suppose the thing I'd like to say on this matter is that, surely, all we do is Role Play, I don't think there are any real mobsters on here (I think they probably have a game whereby they pretend to be nice guys, or they rank from GF down to civilian, and then try get a mundane job..the person who earns the most and works the least being the winner). This is a Role Play based game, so in my opinion, we should try and stick within the confines of a Role Play structure. There are of course many pitfalls that could occur, but I happen to think stagnation is potentially the largest pitfall. |
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| Reply by: Mac at Dec 12, '08 00:54 | |
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I remember the days when there was never an RHM below Made, and with what Zoey said, I don't believe any Made should take orders from someone he or she out ranks. That's why you've become a Made Man, you're somebody, you've finnally made it. I do however agree with the fact that your RH should be someone you trust, and depend on, but if you can't find that from the people who you make, why did you make them in the first place? |
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| Reply by: SaintTonyCapone at Dec 12, '08 02:29 | |
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I personally can see things both ways in this matter. I love RP, and furthermore I love RP realism. If we were to take it to extreme heights of realism, everyone in my crew would have to be at least Consig or above, no one would be able to correspond with me via mail except for my own small HQ and other Crew Heads, there would be more definite (and actual) work behind the 'Sub Crew Leader' position, and people would have to pay tribute for running their businesses in every city. So I can see how the position of Right Hand/Left Hand can often be viewed as being held by someone at least Made rank or above. However, after having lived and learned through many a "Made Man or above" for a Right Hand/Left Hand debacle, it really does come down to OOC trust and hard work. That's not to say that people who received their promotions are untrustworthy. There are just different degrees to 'trust' itself. While I trust my Made Men and Women not to make an ass of themselves in public, to assist me in HQ duties, and to just generally uphold the beliefs I believe make a Rioter a 'Rioter', it takes a special bond to step into those shoes and fill those important positions. Currently I have two people very important to me in my personal life set as RH/LH. (That's not to say that it was based purely off of them being my friends that they got the position- au contraire. I challenge any of you to say they haven't worked their asses off for me and my family. :P) Hard work, as I mentioned before, also plays a role. Before I was granted my Godmother promotion my Right Hand and Left Hands were Zoey and Tatiana, and if any of you had any contact with them prior to their promotion to Don/death, you would know that their dedication and assistance to my family was unrivaled by all but a few others. I have seen many a mobster get placed into slanties and then get lazy or go inactive simply because of the fact that they were "Right Hand" and could "do what they want". In the past I have been known to switch people in and out of the slanties to give them experience. Back in the day on a previous account I took turns switching in all my highest rankers into the Right Hand position. Some were amazing at it and flourished; others were lazy and took advantage. Many people in this community have temperamental personalities- don't deny it. At the drop of the hat they can become enraged or angry and are immediately seeking for revenge upon whatever it is they need revenge for. Many breached that pivotal trust that is necessary, and it happened in many different instances. There was the man who tried to HQ some of my best hitters and then rogue, there was the man who passed on locals information of members of my crew to his friends, etc. etc. Some situations end up working out, however. Shortly before Zoey set up, as she said she wanted to take TheDean on as her Right Hand. So upon Zoey's request we placed him into Left Hand for awhile, to give him the experience he needed and to become familiar with how the entire crew system works. To each their own, really. Zoey is at a point in her career where she is giving everyone their chance and I commend her for that, for she is a true example of what a Don should be. I myself am not at that point however, though I finally feel I have a small group of people who are working towards getting tight knit and working together, so my mind may change in a week or so down the road. It depends on the people, it depends on the circumstance, and it depends on what direction the crew is heading in. Points back to the first sentence of this paragraph: To each their own. |
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| Reply by: Marietta at Dec 12, '08 11:59 | |
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This is something an old friend of mine turi believed in, where sub crew leaders, HSL, rhm, lhm were made and followed traditional procedures. The difficult part is drawing in MM and above from other crews upon setting up and the fact of not having a crew structure as such in place when newly setting up if no Made Men. The truth is the position of Made Man has eroded since the days of izzy when it took 30 days to get the rank and it meant you had done something and worked hard for it. Now 10 days your made with limited effort sadly, i was lazy and did it in 12. So a perfect world would love 3 MM with me when i set up crew, the reality, it would be hard to find 3 people i trust that much of that rank to set up with. |
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| Reply by: Captain_Tycho at Dec 12, '08 13:54 | |
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| I agree with mac and zoey becuase i mean yes that person that is a RH may be a thug/ganster may be the kids of a old RH or LH if they bocme it then at that rank say your family then goes to war they will be a #1 priority for wacks because they will be easy to wack and like you others said if you trust a thug/gangster over a made man why are they made i mean if you want that thug/Gangster to be your RH or LH make a made man [or up] it then once they either retire or get wacked then you can let that person you wanted into that posistion then they can take now that there pofi;e is more experienced | |
| Reply by: Jimmy-Capato at Dec 24, '08 13:02 | |
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