Sycamore I couldn't agree more with you. Lately it has seemed things have gotten a bit out of control with some of the things being said to one another in the streets.. Not to mention where they are being said at. I can't remember a time that a speech being given to congratulate a god father has ever been so tarnished I have seen the other day.

Roquelaure shakes her head remember the bantering back and forth between a few people.

I have also seen some that have ridiculed others for not being respectful in the streets turn right around and do even worse to others. I think the term pot calling kettle black is in order here.

Personally, I too Sycamore would like to know when this all became ok. I just like you want to see lively streets, but I also have read of times in my ancestors journals that what I have heard lately would never have been tolerated, and the streets then were even more lively.

Roquelaure shakes her head with disapproval.

Oh good so the streets does have more to offer than petty feuds and name calling. Thank you Sycamore for this thread and I hope this actually comes to fruition!

Ah...considering I was one of the culprits in the speech that was so grossly( I use that term loosely) tarnished... I would almost feel obligated to speak here. Naturally.

Anyway...Respect. Ah, everyone's favorite topic. Respect my authorita!! and all that. Everyone likes to respected. Why wouldn't we? Respect means somebody actually thinks we are worth a damn. However, you say that the world used to be more respectful. I respectfully disagree. Am I doing the 'respect everyone' thing right?
 

Moving on, I apologize in advance for the verbosity of my response..I am not someone who usually speaks too much but I feel the need to do so here.

Case #1

This!

Do you feel that speech reeking of respect,Sycamore? Does anything there indicate to a higher level of respect than what is being used in our present times? Well, of course..a bit of context for those whose bloodlines don't remember this speech. FlyingPig was a Thug or a Gangster in the Family of Godfather Gwarble and he made this speech in that capacity. As most of you must have noticed..this speech was made close to four years ago... Yes, I have a long memory. 

Case #2

This!

Context for this one? Well, a speech made by Don Tyrion who was at that point in time..working for Godfather Deimne from out of New York, I believe. Now I know what you are thinking..this seems to be the epitome of the 'respectful' speech..but is it? If you had taken the time to read down right to where Don Dante_Balboni..a Crew Leader in Chicago responds..maybe you will get my point. Do those responses reek of respect as well? Don Dante says something..Don Tyrion takes offence and boom! Dead Don Dante. 

Now aside from Dead Don Dante being a sick alliteration what does that say? There was no name calling..it was just Don Dante giving his opinion but apparently Don Tyrion didn't think his opinion was worth shit. All he wanted was people approving his message. As much as I admire the man..I am also sure that if such an act was done today, Don Tyrion would have either been condemned as a rogue or this would have sparked an immediate war or maybe we would have a Frank_Sinatra-esque situation? Well, guess we'll never know.

 This is the kind of respect you want? A respect born of fear? A respect for the other guys gun stat and not his opinions? Well, then at least have the courtesy to say so.

Case #3

This sweet piece of history!

Context: Godfather TheDean offering what seems to be,on the surface, a declaration of victory in a war.

The point? Well, if any of you had read the actual speech, you would have noticed a little nugget that I will blockquote here for your benefit

 My hitters are still hungry and whilst we're firing, we may as well weed the rest of you out at this moment in time.

 What would have happened if a Godfather today were to utter those words? He/She would be slammed for disrespect by the judging mob(a.k.a:Us) So, does this mean we are more respectful today than we were before? You certainly don't agree.

Now I could go on and on and on but I believe three cases are more than sufficient to make my point. Respect was not alive 'back in the day'. Yes, I realize the appeal of wearing pink tinted nostalgia glasses and thinking everything was better back when we didn't exist..but it wasn't. Respect has always been bought primarily by fear..guess we should be celebrating the lack of fear these days then?

Nope, what I think we should be doing is celebrating the fact that we have moved past fear as the only motivating factor for 'respect'..personally, Sycamore I respect you. Yet I've called you a no-name C(something which ruffled quite a few feathers,apparently). Now that seems like a paradox but no it really isn't. I respect you for being someone who believes in what he has to say but I also disagree with your approach to it and hence I responded to you.

We have reached a point in this world where we can make our points without an extreme amount of fear for our lives. I, for one.. welcome it.

Again, sorry for being overtly verbose.

Thank you all so far for speaking and naturally Mr Moran I expected you to come and voice your opinion on this matter seeing as you were involved in the situation that got me started on this topic. Before I go any further I must apolgize for the delay in replying to this. Firstly I had to go over the journals and see what was said and when in regards to the speeches you brought up and secondly there was a war raging that I didn't want to be caught up in.

Ok so lets get back to the topic at hand. I am not saying through history there hasn't been disrespect in our past because obviously there has but I feel nowadays people can pretty much say anything without any kind of deterrent. As I said before I don't want the streets to be a place where everyone comes and just kisses the speakers ass. I want debates to rage opinions to be heard and blood to boil but not go past that line. We are better than calling each other names.

Your first example obviously is disrespectful, was part of it said in jest? I have no idea to be honest but did everyone around that speak on the streets in the same manner and disrespect?

Example 2, funnily enough this was the exact incident I was thinking about when I thought about the respect of times gone by and the punishment of disrespect in the street. You say Don Dante just gave his opinion that you felt didn't disrespect Don Tyrion but you appear to miss this little snippet in Don Dante's reply

Now I know that my family are not outspoken, and you know what I couldn't give a damn what you, your dog and your abnormally small left testicle think.

I have emphasized the part which would offend me and I would assume most men would feel disrespected in such a way and I would assume that Don Tyrion was as well. Don Tyrion replied in a manner to defend himself and Don Dante as him to  meet him the rest is history. Now I know I wasn't Don Tyrion and what was going through his head but I think he had perfectly good reason to put Don Dante in his place.

Example 3

This is where it stops. If there is anyone else who feels that we are not doing our utmost to make sure things run as smoothly as possible with minimal conflict, speak now and make my day. My hitters are still hungry and whilst we're firing, we may as well weed the rest of you out at this moment in time.

 This is the full quote and I have no issue and I a sure many don't is saying he is going to wipe out every city? No he is stating that the issues stop now, if anyone else wants to kick up a fuss he is more than happy to shut them up with a bullet. Obviously every situation is open to interpretation and my opinion will differ from yours and yours from the next, but I can't see how the last two examples have been disrespectful.

I understand this business and my ancestors have been around long enough to know how we works and I don't want or expect us to hold hands if anything I want us to be mobsters rather than the current hold hand situation we had. I want people to be punished if they deserve to be punished and not the current I will have a word with them or whatever it maybe. To be honest I have no issue with being called a no name C and to be honest that wasn't even the worst of what has happened on the streets. Also as I said initially I believe change is often good and this change is not something that I am happy with.  Lastly I don't want people to fear coming onto the streets to voice their opinions I want the exact opposite. If anything your comment to me in another debate would scare some from coming onto the street if they hadn't achieved the rank of Made, knowing you I know that is not the case.

Here's the thing, I was around in the "old days" and people were as disrespectful.  And in fact the only time people watched what they said on the Streets, people railed against it.

Nostalgia is natural - it makes people feel good.

But the Streets are doing alright, just now.

It's a question of Leadership...

What sets us apart from the common criminal is very much there - structured, organized families as opposed to swaths of hoodlums going in eighty different directions with no motive other than the next dollar.  

While I'm not necessarily a fan of the vitriolic content in the streets, I have to point out that the vast majority of people still remain reasonably respectful on the streets. The few and far between cases where there's a blow up on the streets are usually exaggerated as their audience tunes in, and then what happens? We'll have another discussion like this one that talks about how we've lost our way from the glorious days of old where thing were just.. better.  When the inverse occurs and we start policing the streets, what discussion usually follows up? "Stagnant times.  Stagnant leaders.  Stagnant streets.  What do we about it?" - cheap discussion that has been recycled for years. I've seen several of these cycles in my own lifetime, so I don't even want to begin discussing what my ancestors saw on the streets - this has been happening since the dawn of time on these shores.i

The good old days used to be a time where the attitude of a borderline zero-tolerance policy on criticism was pretty prominent.  There were exceptions, of course, but from firsthand experience, many people who had brilliant minds were hesitant to bring their full criticism of whatever gripe they had full circle to the streets for fear of retribution - these days? Not so much.  We're living in a period where, for the first time ever, criticism is given freely and unabashed when people think it is due - I'm not necessarily opposed to that, because it helps the powers that be gauge what we should and shouldn't be doing - or it should, anyway. 

For the vast majority of the streets that continue to remain respectful and civil, we see a small minority that flare up the streets with their vitriol and we use that example to point to ourselves as a failed tradition that has gone by the wayside - but the discussions and debates that are sparked from them and the interest they generate? I wouldn't be so willing to throw away.  You're living in an age where you can (possibly) generate change based on your words - idiotic, thought provoking or otherwise - without having to look over your shoulder that often.

I expect that some people are going to disagree with me entirely - and that's perfectly fine, as I'd rather start a dialogue than have people nodding their heads while silently seething in rage as many had to in the past for fear of retribution.  

For what it's worth, that's not such a bad thing, in my book.

I feel that the standards on respect have dropped a fair bit. It is not completely gone though as majority of people do still conduct themselves with respect when addressing other people in the streets.

I find it difficult at times to listen to those that feel that they can be rude or abrasive just because they are who they are. When I come across those people speaking I have to try to control the urge to eye roll and try to get to the points they are making. It is their points I have to be more interested in because clearly they are allowed to do whatever they want.

Which is fine, who I am to demand what should be or shouldn't be? I would just like to see some people take bit more time when they are speaking to convey their points with less rudeness. I think it would do better on the translation front. Words is all we have to go by if we do not know the person directly.

I think I have rambled quite enough. Just want to end with disagreements may get heated but there is no excuse to lack respect when speaking to one another whether it's a thug or a Godfather. That is just my opinion as those of us that have been around should be setting an example.

Standard on respect have dropped somewhat, a lot of people still contribute a fair amount of respect to certain people and present themselves in the appropriate manor. However there is still the odd few who do not show an ounce of respect to anyone and get away with it? Back in the day if you had no respect you would find yourself dead end off.

Glad this issue was brought up!

Snake listens to Sycamore and is happy with what he hears.

I could not agree more with you. Although I haven't been around these particular shores that long, I have looked into the streets frequently. Some of the threads I'm seeing I can't believe how disrespectful some are with there responses. I know everyone has there own opinions on matters. But there needs to be a certain amount of decency in the conversations. Just my thoughts.

Snake disappears very happy that someone brought this issue up.

"The amount of disrespect on the streets is evident for all to see and apparently it is ok for this to happen now."

What makes it so bad you think people need to be made examples of? I don't get why people keep calling for higher standards... what standards? There are lots of standards, which ones need to be raised?

"...I love the fact people are coming out and talking but I don't enjoy petty name calling we are better than that."

I want to focus on this point that was made. Even though name-calling and much worse has been said recently (as well as in the past), I must say that those who were disrespectful towards the ones in power back in the day, didn't last for long. I remember there was a time where a leader had just obtained the rank of Godfather (or was it Godmother?), and two people died that day for their disparaging remarks against the leader - one in a blatant way, and one in a sarcastic way.

However, what we may consider disrespectful, leaders and more prominent members in our society may not find it as such or have a higher tolerance for it than we do because there is more at stake for them. You don't get to be a top dog without getting some dirt flung at you.

If Godfather X flew off the handle every time Joe schmoe calls him a name, that's not good for business. However, it makes the family that Mr. schmoe comes from look bad if the behavior is not corrected, or worse, the leader condones such behavior. Even though nothing appears to happen at the time, suppose if said member wants something later on that Godfather X has a hand in making it happen. Do you think the Godfather would do it for the disrespectful punk? No, and this is what we should think about - the bigger picture.

If you truly want stronger punishments for people who speak negatively towards Godfathers, leaders, and people of honor, talk to your own leaders and see what they say about it. If enough people are sickened with these blatant disrespectful remarks, perhaps they will take stronger actions against people who say such, and those who condone them.

Godfather Solastalgia thank you for your input. I agree on the most parts it is respectful but those instances that have happened recently aren't needed in this world and yes I did refer to back in the day but I'm not usually one to go on about the old days as we move on but this is something that I wanted to get a discussion started on and see what people think. I don't want this world to be policed with zero tolerance but at the same time we have to make sure that we don't end up talking trash in the gutter with the low life's.

Opinions will differ and this is what our streets should be about. I don't want stagnant street hence why I have been so vocal about things that are on my mind.

JohnSmith I agree it would have to come from the top as anyone new will look up to those at the top to see how they act and base their speeches on how the people at the top speak.

ted obviously this is just my opinion but I believe that our standards have dropped in regards to respectfully talking or debating. A bloodline that I have known since my bloodline first appeared made an admission that he had pretty much disrespected every Godfather and leader going and had not been punished. If that were to continue and everyone followed his example where would it lead us? I may be completely wrong and it could the thing that will entertain this world no end but my belief is it won't be good for business.

Blaise you're right what I consider disrespectful may differ from the next person or our current leaders but I wanted to find out if people thought the same as me or if my thoughts on it all were wrong and that I have spent too much time around politicians and not enough time around mobsters. Your point about how it would look on the family that the disrespectful member is exactly right and the thing is I believe if things go unpunished it will end up encouraging such behavior in the long run.

Danger, Snake and PhilWenneck thank you for your comments.

Like I have said from the outset this is just my thoughts  and I don't expect my opinion to be shared by all.

Do you believe everything everyone says? Even if it is true, were those leaders really insulted if they didn't shoot?

The incident I was talking about at the time didn't involve and leaders at the time. When I was talking about before was a hypothetical situation. Punishment doesn't just have to be death people can be punished be financial means, demotion and stripped of positions of power. To your first of course I don't believe everything that I am told, I would be a fool if I did.

Well now I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but maybe they didn't take it as insulting for a reason. Maybe you should ask them why things you thought were insults didn't get taken as going too far because maybe you and I and everyone else is missing something.