Seriously, quit being idiots. At least be somewhat smart. If I would've went down with the first wave, I wouldn't be an over 24 hour account right now. You guys seriously that fucking retarded?

If you didn't say it, then the probability is that I wasn't referring to you.

Gunna there was a very good reason for Wiggle to join when he did.

No no no no no no no no no. No.

There is absolutely no reason that was good enough for him to join when he did, other than having his own life attempted upon by someone. Wigglebutt choosing to join in when he did was absolutely a suicide mission, and I'm not even sure he had any hopes of coming out of it alive, or even caring whether him or his district survived.

He may have had a very good reason, don't get me wrong there because I am not arguing that. What I will argue is that he did not judge the situation correctly, as evidenced by him and his people in the obits, and in fact it was not a good enough reason to join when he did.

There's far too much emphasis on safety in our world. We're criminal enterprises not nation states, it's always baffled my line where ideas of principle seem to end.

 It's not about an emphasis on safety. It's about the fact that trying to wade into a war with a group of unprepared people who were never going to change the outcome of that war being a stupid, stupid move. This has nothing to do with principles. If he had not allowed his emotions to rule him in that second where he made that decision he would have realised that waiting until after the dust had settled, when people's guards were lowered was a much better move and didn't necessarily mean that his death would be a guaranteed outcome, yet he could still fight for whatever principles it is you're referring to.

Never been one to agree with Deadlysin but he has hit the nail firmly on the head there, Hence his bloodline made one of the more cagey Godfathers seen in recent times.

Though in defence of Wiggles he may have thought that he was going to be attacked sooner rather then later so acted when he did knowing full well he wouldnt make it. In an attempt to do some damage, but Deadlysin is correct it was nothing but suicide Though i guess he played the cards he was dealt from the start Rest in Peace everyone.

War is war. 

Get over it. Shit happens.

Mikro walks out onto the streets and sees people arguing and fussing over the recent events. He just shakes his head and has face of disgust on. He looks at them, then grabs a shelf of glass vases standing next to him and tips it over. The all crash to the ground getting everyone's attention. He then stands on a the man's table who was selling those vases and addresses the crowd.

  "Really guys.. My father was a Consigliere of a Corktown family. I do not wish to disclose my bloodline to everyone yet, but do you see me or better yet hardly anyone screaming about death? No.. why, because what is the point in that? You make yourself look foolish and nothing good comes from it! Granted I'd love to know the reason as to why my father was killed, but do I expect to get this reason no. So why complain about it?"

He then takes a deep breath and continues.

  " Now I know many of us were expecting something to come. I mean hell, had you not noticed how much shit we were stirring up? South Side and Corktown had been wiping districts for quite some time. My father had a good idea what was on our horizon. I mean come on you can't just continue to slaughter district after district and expect no one to come after you. I mean no disrespect to any of my former family members or anyone associated with us, but you had to be stupid to not see something of the sort coming!"

Mirko the drops off the table and leaves a wad of bills on it for the vase owner and stands around eating a dougnut waiting to see if anyone responds to waht he has said.

ahhhh QUITCHERBITICHN.

Dear ole dad lived twice as long as most of you and too twice as long to die (all those preservatives...)

He EVEN HAD AN EXCLUSIVE PROTECTION ORDER ON HIM!!!111

ZOMG! HE STILL DIED.

Life happens and then shit happens.

Best thing you can do for yourself is to stop wallowing in the crap and get out of it.

DeadlySin are there any situations in which you feel that fighting when you are likely to lose the fight are justified? You mentioned an attempt on Wiggle's life, but what of others? Or any other possible scenarios?

No offense to the fallen, but I find it highly unlikely that waiting until after the war would have much altered the results, the imbalance in the sides  was a bit much. So while I would agree to the benefits of waiting generally, I think in this case it would have helped minimally at best and could have potentially worsened the situation, I find it a very real possibility that odds of survival were better entering at that point than if waiting had happened, despite them being very very slim either way.

My safety comment was really a general more than situational one, and was also a bit of a veiled reference, it can't really be taken properly by everyone listening, and I'm not going to explain it publicly, so it's best to disregard that part.

The principles part of it is able to be taken in by all though. Our world has repeatedly declared perceived threats as a good enough reason to start a war, but does not seem to recognize the flip side of that, perceived or maybe even proven) weakness. If you aren't willing to potentially sacrifice lives for certain principles or in response to certain actions, you're pretty much just biding your time. You can get in when wronged, or you can wait to later be attacked because you're weak and someone's HS is bored, and hope that day doesn't occur until some things have changed for you. 

How much exactly are you supposed to just swallow for that maybe?

Captious4 I feel like you didn't listen to a single word I said. Did I say at any point that fighting when you are likely to lose is a bad idea or a mistake? No, I did not. I said that Wigglebutt choosing to join when he did was a massive, humongous, tremendous mistake.

If you honestly believe that the best time to join in a war is when the people you're joining are ninety nine percent dead, and the people you're fighting are all still wide awake and have multiple districts already prepared for war as they're already in a war - then there really is no point us even having this conversation, because clearly sense is something you are greatly lacking in.

As for your little speech about principles - well you started off acting like you were going to talk about principles but actually you were just speaking about having the balls to stop talking and start acting. Not entirely sure what that has to do with anything, since clearly Wiggle did have the balls to act, just not the brains to pick the right moment.

I doubt DeadlySin would ever say that fighting when you are likely to lose is a bad idea. I remember both our grandfathers fighting against LA and LV, on what looked like the losing side, yet we persevered and came out the other side the victors. Regardless of the circumstances, there can always be that small chance.