This is the worst and most pathetic pissing contest I've witnessed in quite some time.  Keep up the good work!  

She didn't put Dan in any sort of position, she wasn't being selfish, she was happy to be shot for her words.

Probably the most hilarious thing I've heard here today. However in the interests of not wanting to be appear more unintelligent (the most hilariously ironic thing I've heard from anyone on these streets) I'll continue on my way. Feel free to say how I wasn't aware of the relationship they had though, I mean..I wasn't Dans right hand man or anything whilst her mother was under him as Choke. 

Desmand, firstly, your opinions on intelligence really don't matter to me in the slightest. You have never shown an ounce of intelligence in anything I've ever seen from you, so carry on, dear.

Tell me though, what happened to Choke? And where did Ziva, Choke's offspring, end up? In the same family? You think that would happen if she was really bothered about being shot for her words? Come on now, don't make it so easy for me.

As it happens, I was quite intrigued by the expose itself, because this group are different and people different from ourselves are often interesting. What this has degenerated into though has old Stelengum pretty appalled. 

Who are the vulnerable women that are so in need of protection from this group/cult that they required public attention being brought to them? I've met some weak people in my time here but none so incapable that they had reason to fear this. I therefore doubt the motivations of the speaker stem from being "highly worried about the women of MR", who, by the by, happen to be criminals involved in the Mafia. Instead, I think it is much more likely that this is an attempt to raise her own profile. Nothing wrong with that and quite a lot of effort has actually gone into it which I would commend, but I'm not buying the altruism here.

If anything done by this group actually steps over the line, then it isn't the public's realm to get involved anyway, it is the Gods. I believe I can surmise from the fact none of these individuals are rotting in jail or have been struck by bolts of lightening, that they haven't actually done anything wrong. This leads me to believe that the protection angle is again falling some way short of the mark.

Moving on from there it seems that a lot of dirty laundry is being aired that isn't really doing anyone any favours. What does stand out though is the belief that referencing the actions of someone's bloodline now constitutes a personal attack? When did that happen and why is that such a terrible, abhorrent thing to do? Rightly or wrongly, and I don't know which it is, surely pointing out the actions of someone's ancestor is just that - a point to be refuted. 

I don't know, maybe old Stelengum is out of touch. 

No mr. stelengum, your pretty much dead on.

and since this thread is no longer IC in any sense of the term, I will say that when I worked as a CL in the west side, grey and two of his girls worked for me. And for the period that they did work for me, They were some of the best and most consistently active members of my crew. I will also say that the reason that they chose to leave the way they did was due to a disagreement between Mr. grey and a third party, also a member of my crew, and the fact that I was unable to find an equitable solution.

It's okay Stelengum, N4G has two hands. While Rob has one, you can have the other. I'm sure you'll all be more than happy with this arrangement.

Are you really struggling that much with basic comprehension that you can't understand or read what people are saying Chalk? The irony is you question my intelligence when you have shown time and time again that you don't actually understand and digest what people are saying, just blinding defending a friend for probably some ulterior motives. 

I see I'm going to have to slow.things.down.for.you.Chalk.

The most selfish thing Ziva could have done (and did) was to join DanTheMans family again after spitting verbal diarrhoea and vendettas all over the streets and landing Dan in potentially hot water. The whole problem here is that she doesn't care about being shot for her words but what you and her clearly don't realise is that matters don't cease for Dan when you die. It just means more of the blame is shouldered on him. Are you really that slow? Serious question. Yours and Zivas lack of respect for Dan (even when he's asked you multiple times in public to play nice) is absolutely disgraceful and taking advantage of the kind nature of your crew leader and my friend. 

There's nothing to question about your intelligence. I'm down right saying there is very little, to none of it. There's no question about that. You're bang on about the ulterior motives though. I must've again missed when friends were unable to defend eachother against multiple people, without just being friends.

Onto your more 'serious' point though...

If Dan gets into shit for shooting a member for her words, and allowed the offspring to join the family, then I really, really worry for this place. Mistakes are that of the specific person, not their mother, father, or offspring. The problem dies with that specific person, unless their offspring decides to repeat them, and then they get shot again. The fact that Dan decided to let us to say what we said, and Dan decided to let her rejoin the family, is somehow mine and her's fault? Dan didn't have to let her rejoin, how is it her fault that he did? Dan didn't, and doesn't, have to let me live for what I say, but he does. That's not my fault. You can't blame us for his decisions.

If we were truly taking advantage of his kind nature (I genuinely do like the guy by the way, this isn't an attack on him.) would we not be making him keep us alive, by trying to manipulate him into doing so? Have we done that? No. Have we said we are happy to die for our words? Yes.

Chalk looks around.

Where did your argument go? It seems to have vanished.

As lovely as I'm sure abacus' hands are, I don't know what relevance that has to what I said. Other than perhaps that I didn't 100% support your view, which appears to be little more than the staunch, unflinching defense of a corpse. Good luck with that. 

Suttin hugs Desmand.

You looked like you needed a hug. 

Thanks for the hug Suttin-CG, I hope that's all right with your apparently tyrannically master though?

I hear you have since passed from this world but I feel I should address your points anyway, perhaps your children can repeat what I say to your gravestone. I find it funny that it's "okay" when you defend your friends and yet when HandsomeRob amongst others do the exact same thing they are chastised for it. What was your friends famous words again? "Pot.Kettle.Black" or something? 

There is still and always is accountability for the actions of a person even in death. Someone goes rogue and shoots a member from another family, does the problem end when they are killed? No. Apologies are made and compensation is often paid. And then often a sour taste remains between the aggressors family and the defendants. Chokes death was absolutely no different after her tirades. 

 The problem dies with that specific person, unless their offspring decides to repeat them, and then they get shot again.

And bingo this is where the selfish starts kicking in. She had an idea of possibly what her outbursts were doing and achieving yet returns to Dans crew and does exactly the same thing again? She then coerces you into joining her (you can deny this all you like but even Dan knew this was the case) on her little temper tantrums and public insults to New York, Chicago and it's leaders.

would we not be making him keep us alive, by trying to manipulate him into doing so

Fairly sure this was the case actually, probably not for public ears though. I'd speak with Zivas next of kin about that sentence and get those facts in order. 

 Where did your argument go? It seems to have vanished.

Vanished? That's quite impressive if it's managed that. My argument has always been that you knew Dan was a gentle man and took advantage of that time and time again. That's the reason you weren't shot for your words, not because they were particularly witty or not disrespectful and insulting to just about every single person you came into contact with on the streets. I wish your next of kin luck perhaps he'll be slightly less of a white knight in shining armour if his damsel in distress is taking a break.

Desmand, if you're talking to Chalk, you're talking to a corpse.

Gives Desmand another hug.

I'm sorry for your loss.

Drop it, friends.

This debate or whatever the fuck it is, is over. Ziva is dead. Chalk is dead. You've drug Ziva's name through the mud despite her bloodline not coming back.

It's not fun to be a bully. She may have started it. But who is here finishing it?

It quite honestly needs to just end here. Everyone's here had there 'fun' for the day. It's just getting repetitive and annoying.