A smile curled at the corners of his lips as he wandered the street. He had been pondering this particular thought all morning! He'd stand atop a sealed barrel and clear his throat some before speaking to the masses.

It's obvious that blood runs thicker than water, something I can acknowledge anyways, but I don’t speak for everyone. That being said, how many of us actually take the bond instantly formed when we accept the invite into a family? To me it seems that the new generations coming off the boats are nearly oblivious to this and aren't being molded to fulfill a position in this thing of ours and they ultimately wander astray.

This undeniable bond, however, is taken to different extremes by different people, much like everything in this way of life. I've read in my journals, and often read that my ancestors denounced most things as subjective, and truly this is one of the few critiques of my own bloodline with which I am in concurrence.

However, I getting sidetracked by my own ramblings. Let's rewind to the comment before last, that is to say, the subjectivity of family bonds and indeed loyalty. So, what does a family bond mean to you?

Is it something you indoctrinate your children with, knowing there is a decent chance of them meeting their untimely demise? An admirable display of loyalty perhaps, if not a tad overzealous. It should always be said, however, that there is a fine line between courage and stupidity.

So then, is the bond between you and your leader something that is erased when you meet your inevitable demise, should your children be free to make their own way in life, not having to cling to the last vestiges of a deceased family name. Perhaps the most sensible, and indeed safest route; but does it not betray the heart and soul of this thing of ours?

Finally, is a family bond something that is merely optional, an outdated concept not applicable to an era where families are only crews and HQ's are mere shelters from bullets and ne'er more? I certainly hope not, though. Seeing as there are a few among us who've jumped ship and hopped aboard with another city when opportunity came around, is certainly troubling.

TheTripleDeuce walks over to batista hearing him asking for some opinions

i myself only form a tight bond if i have ancestors that have been respectedf and trusted or they allow me to prove myself to them and reach the rank of made man as i see that as a mutual trust opportunity once that is obtained there is no going back in my books, a invite into a family before hand means i am willing to see what they have to offer however once i accept the rank of made man and higher i will do anything and everything to prove my loyalty

Visas smiles she liked this question it is something she had pondered over many times LOYALTY what did it mean?

A very good question Battista now the way i see it is that once you join a family and earn your button you have pledged yourself to that family. Or like in my case i was hand Picked By My Now GodMother Taegan to fill the position of Left Hand to her family Starfall.

At the time i myself had no aspirations of being anything other then another faceless Mobster tucked away inside JohnnyNoNames crew when Taegan approached me i remembered haveing read in one of my journels a promise made my one of my ancestors to one of hers that if she ever needed anything my bloodline would help in a heartbeat.

So i kept that promise and accepted the position from that day i pledged my life to Taegan if anything was to happen i would stand and fight to the end to keep her alive if she was to fall no matter the odds i would meet them head on my sole purpose then would be to send as many of the enemy to hell with me.

Nothing in this world sickens me more then seeing a Hand Jump ship when there Crew Leader bites the dust you see as a hand you are considered the most trusted the most Loyal of the family.

My Grandfather before his death recalls a message he received Just after his GodMother who he was Right Hand to was gunned down offering him safety his reply was Even Though Penquin is dead i am still her Right Hand today i die with her Thanks but no thanks.

That was all that could be seen on that page as it was soaked in his and one others blood.

Trixy steps into the street bodyguards at her back and shiney new piece firmly in its holster on her hip. She walks slowly eyeing the crowd before stepping onto a parking curb and beginning to speak. 

"Ladies and gentlemen, I've heard the words spoken here and they echo some of the thoughts of my recently lost beloved mother. Loyalty is a thing spoken often of here in this thing of ours, and there are different types. If I may elaborate, my mother in her final days was blessed with having one good man who she didn't have a chance to talk to much before he joined her family. Let me tell you though, this one man Mr. The_breeze proved himself in both words and actions that he would be loyal with her to the very end, even though she did not have much and she offered him the chance to go and be a part of a bigger organization this man stood by her to the end out of loyalty and died beside her. That is the loyalty of not only a family member, but a friend.

We see these leaders out here, looking over the fresh faces that come to the shores wondering what they will do. Do these people have bloodlines which have roamed these streets before? Are they truly fresh faces? How will they behave? Will their actions or words reflect badly upon those above them? All these are questions one can not answer in a day but when pressed from what I have seen while there are many who will hold grudges most who come here do at least read the materials they can find, journals, paper clippings and such on how to behave respectfully. Whether they adhere to them or not is another matter all together.

The types of loyalty I mentioned are two fold; There is the loyalty one is expected to have(whether they do or not) to ones family. While any family leader(or crew leader if you prefer) can speak until they are blue in the face about expecting loyalty their members to follow them to hell and and back it will always come down to the individual, their motives, and whether or not they are willing to risk the time and effort they have invested in the thing of ours when stuff gets real and bullets start flying, as lets face it, they some times do.

The second loyalty is that amongst friends and I'd dare to say that this runs far deeper in most cases then the loyalty one has to their family, even if the family uppers are doing all the right things, being supportive, talking to their people etc. the bond of someone one considers a friend well, here, that can transpass even death. It passes beyond names and faces, beyond crews and families. For example, I have nothing but respect for Mr. Buscetta my new boss. He seems friendly, helpful, polite, generally laid back.. basically a good guy and at the end of the day he's the head of my family and I'd take a bullet for him, or put someone else in the ground to protect him thats the loyalty to family. On the other hand, I look at my friends, those who are friends of my bloodline so to speak and think I'd probably die to defend them as well.

The point of all this being is that if you want that second type of loyalty out of people you have to get to know them and it really can't be rushed its based on trust and respect. I can be loyal to someone because its expected because of where I am in the world but at the end of the day the loyalty to those who I know and care about will always run deeper then that for someone I just met or because of whats 'expected'.

If you want loyal people, get to know them, check in on them make sure they know you and what you think on things in the world ((ooc moment: thats both this world and outside it)). If you care about your people, your people will care about you and at the end of the day when armageddon happens here you may one day put away your gun, retire and find you take a good many friends to that great nursing home of retired mafiosa in the sky(ooc: e.g. You might leave with a friend or two in real life). Its worth it at any rate to know those above and below you in this world as people and not just names and numbers because without the people the world is nothing."

With that Trixy stepped off the curb and motioned her guards to come along, she had a lot of work to do...

Silvio hears the speech about loyalty and decides to have his two cents he makes his way up to the front of the crowd and clears his throat 

Loyalty is simple to me I show respect and Loyalty to someone I expect it back you have to show both to gain both, I myself have moved cities after I came on to find everyone dead and I was lucky enough to get out I had a very small gun so shooting against the people would have been pointless would it of showed loyalty to not be able to shoot someone and die in the process? As someone has already pointed out there is loyalty and stupidity! Now I have brought many of the fallen into my crew and vouched for others who were looking for things in other Cities so that surely shows loyalty.

I am loyal to people I respect those who gave me a chance and in turn I was able to replicate that to my up and coming mobsters.

If someone turns out to be Disloyal then its still a bonus you learnt who NOT to trust which is just as important as those you do!

Loyalty

noun

1. =  faithfulness, commitment, devotion, allegiance, reliability, fidelity, homage, patriotism, obedience,constancy, dependability, trustworthiness, steadfastness, troth (archaic), fealty, staunchness,trueness, trustiness, true-heartedness • I have sworn an oath of loyalty to the mafia

Lyra cleared her thought as she began to speak, giving her thoughts on the situation.

Loyalty, hard to gain but so easily too lose at any opportunity, often tested in various situations, and tested daily. My mother from the earlier days was a fresh face in the crowd of mobsters that stumbled along the shore, unsure of what to expect or what situations she would be involved in. Her inexperience was obvious, she brought in a young mobster, who later betrayed her, this was someone who she had taught personally, spent time with and helped. You can give loyalty, but doesn’t mean that loyalty will always be appreciated or get what you put in. That being said, she never stopped trying, or stopped helping.

You get what you put in, what I learned from my mother’s journals, even if your help is shoved to the side, but there are people who will appreciate it and in return will be loyal. I believe in that wholeheartedly and there people here I would gladly give my life for. There are people she found her loyalty give worth giving to and no doubt they felt the same. However, the moment you accept an invite, is that the moment you pledge your undying loyalty? Be loyal to the family?

My ancestors didn’t believe in that, and neither do I. To earn the loyalty of someone, you work with them, check in on them, and care for them, while respecting them. You can’t expect loyalty from neglect, treating them as lesser people who are there to fill the spots in the crew or just there for a few notches. A good crew is built on quality people, not quantity, a belief that was passed down to me from my ancestors. With neglect, they will wander, forming bonds with the right and wrong people.

My mother took a gamble, and got a position of trust, she wasn’t looking to be big or to rank up excessively but what she learned was invaluable.  She learned so much from that position, and she was happy go do down with her family, she didn’t have any regrets. She was happy to call them her family.

To her, laughing, helping and caring for each other is what made the family bond strong, getting to know each other, communication is key. Despite meeting her demise, she wouldn’t have changed much; she didn’t pledge her loyalty because it was ‘expected’ but she felt that was right, because the people meant something to her. Don’t care for who you bring in, neglect them, fail to communicate them, don’t expect too much loyalty if you don’t care, they won’t care in return.

That is my opinion on it all, I am somewhat new here, but I will do my best for the family that has taken me in, and I feel loyal to them, not because its expected, because they have shown me that they care help me and I have met some awesome people, as well as old friends. I feel like I owe it them for what they have shown me and what they have done for me. 

Teddy leans with his back against the Barber shop, listening attentively but focusing on the nickel in his right hand.  He balances it between his thumb and index finger and gives it a flip. Heads.  He pushes off the brick, stands up straight, and walks toward the street, rolling the coin between his fingers. 

Loyalty.  Either you have it, or you don't.  I think that some great points have been brought up in this discussion but I'd like to share my thoughts.  

I spoke with my grandfather about this topic before he passed.  The man had a lot of experience in this world, especially considering how long he stuck it out.  He once told me about a war where his family and city were all taken out.  At the time, due to certain circumstances, the opposing side gave him a choice.  Either go down with his city or join up with the other family.  

Again, he flips the coin. Heads.  

The reason that I bring up this story is because we're defined by our choices.  Those choices, as a result, define our experiences and hopefully, we're all lucky enough to learn from those experiences.  From day one on these shores, we're drilled with the ideas of loyalty, family, omerta, etc.   But when these ideas are tested, we're given a choice that might question that loyalty.  Other factors might come into play but the concept to loyalty is simple.  I don't think that different types exist either.  There's not an expiration date.  You either choose to be loyal or not. 

Now my grandfather chose to live.  Believe it or not, the bastard ended up running his own family in the city.  It's funny how things turn out but I digress.  Did he regret his choice? No. He accepted it and was able to accomplish many things in his time.  But do I think that he was loyal? Obviously not.  I've heard other people say that deciding otherwise would have been stupid.  I disagree.  He was stupid for deciding to live.  To better explain what I mean, he was ignorant of what loyalty really meant. 

Once more. Tails. 

Some other points that I'd like to address. 

So then, is the bond between you and your leader something that is erased when you meet your inevitable demise, should your children be free to make their own way in life, not having to cling to the last vestiges of a deceased family name. Perhaps the most sensible, and indeed safest route; but does it not betray the heart and soul of this thing of ours?

To answer your last question, it does.  It's one thing to have a relationship with someone in your family's past but you're not your father or mother.  You have no ties and are free to choose as you please.  If you choose the same family, then great.  However, if you don't , then you have a responsibility to your family.  The family needs you and you need them. 

Nothing in this world sickens me more then seeing a Hand Jump ship when there Crew Leader bites the dust you see as a hand you are considered the most trusted the most Loyal of the family.

I feel the same way.

You get what you put in, what I learned from my mother’s journals, even if your help is shoved to the side, but there are people who will appreciate it and in return will be loyal. I believe in that wholeheartedly and there people here I would gladly give my life for. There are people she found her loyalty give worth giving to and no doubt they felt the same. However, the moment you accept an invite, is that the moment you pledge your undying loyalty? Be loyal to the family?

For me, yes.  You made the choice to accept the invite and there's no going back.  Why would you want to join a family where loyalty might be in question?  Also, why must loyalty be gained?  If you're not loyal to the cause, then I don't think you should be part of that cause.   

I think the interpretation of the word, something so common in this thing of ours, is blurred ... or maybe it's my terrible vision.  It's quickly mixed with other things, like respect and trust.  Before I join a family, I hope to establish some form of respect for the organization.  I think that respect and trust builds over time.  Investing yourself 100% emotionally into a family without knowing anything beforehand is unreasonable.  However, when I make the decision to join up, loyalty is a must.  Family is everything and I feel that loyalty is a major part of the glue that keeps it together. 

once upon a time i would of backed my crewleader to the hilt, even died for them happily.  Now when families are not there always to protect the family but to serve purposes of friends, i see little reason to show loyalty to certain families as when i become a threat whether for the size of my gun or the people i connect with.

I would like to hope things change, but i doubt will happen.

Trixie has been listening to others talking on the issue of loyalty for some time now and has pondered their words.  Her thoughts have crystallized and she feels the need to share them with others.

Loyalty is an important thing in this thing of ours.  Without loyalty, what is a crew other than a bunch of disparate people all running around making money for themselves while forking over a little to their bosses?  And in some cases the only reason they fork over a share is because they don’t like the consequences.  After all, not many of us want to be beat – especially for not following orders.  The only thing that would hold together a crew in a world without loyalty is fear, or so it seems to me. 

She stops for a moment to collect her thoughts and take a sip of water.  Her throat is parched!

Now with loyalty, a crew is a cohesive whole – working toward a common goal as dictated by the boss.  It may not always work out so well – sometimes the boss does not plan well, and sometimes life just kicks a crew in the nuts and it all goes belly up.  It may, however, work well and the crew prospers.  In either event the loyal crew knows they are doing what they can and should to help the crew prosper. 

What bothers me is those who say that loyalty is a two way street.  If I am loyal to my boss it is only because I know he will be loyal to me.  An implication of this is that if he or she proves to be disloyal, it then releases me from any loyalty in return.

No I say!  This I will not subscribe to.  My loyalty is not bought.  If I am loyal it is because I have found someone to be loyal to.  If that person ends up being someone who does not deserve my loyalty - so be it.  Loyalty is something I give – without reservation.  If the person I give loyalty to proves to be unworthy of that loyalty – that is on them.  It says something about them – not me.  We are all responsible for our own actions.  We should own that responsibility!

As for the question of does loyalty extend beyond the grave – I think that none of us can force subsequent generations to live our lives over again.  They also have their own choices and actions to be responsible for.

Trixie steps off her soap box and hurriedly packs her shit up and hustles out of the way. 

I think you have to have a level of loyalty when you join a family but i believe it develops further with time partly if your getting what you want out of a family, partly if your backed by them when in the right and partly when you feel your acheiving something.  Many people join a crew it has been discussed oblivious to the world around us.they just hear join a crew or tommorow you will be shot basically which is a line i heared today though not quite so blunt.

As mentioned before it is said about loyalty to friends, sadly this should always be trumped by loyalty to family as these are the people sheltering you, teaching you, ranking you and at the end of the day on the line if you screw up.

Should that loyalty last to a next generation? i think if a family has done a good enough job i see it happening.   Ancestors of mine have rejoined the same families after gun malfunctions or wars as thats how it should ideally work.  A family should be inspiring you to greater things and that is why some will think it was great there, my family had fun, the boss helped me out so i learned a bit more about this world, etc.

Does it work this way always? no, some people can get a position, money elsewhere or be with friends, or even break off to a crew set up from within a family.

lronSight clears his throat,

"Much has been covered but I'll simply be focusing on the main speaker's input for now."

However, I getting sidetracked by my own ramblings. Let's rewind to the comment before last, that is to say, the subjectivity of family bonds and indeed loyalty. So, what does a family bond mean to you?

"A family bond means nothing to me. I'd greatly prefer to go back to the days when I thought leaders were giving to their members in the same way their members gave to them, but from speaking with a number of individuals it doesn't seem to really be there any more. Most people, Godfathers included, seem to be working under some notion that loyalty is a one time payment. Simply giving a new member a home, authing a man, whatever it is that involves trusting a person requires maintenance like any other relationship. If you're not giving your members, auths, audience (for you street speakers out there) the quality efforts they deserve they should turn on you... myself included. If I fail to provide the leadership my family desires I fully expect Jono to shoot at me until I die (My thanks to Ragnarok for putting that joke in his profile, that's going down as one of my favorite all time Jono jokes) and assumes the role of CL of my family. No matter how many years and generations of his family that may take."

So then, is the bond between you and your leader something that is erased when you meet your inevitable demise, should your children be free to make their own way in life, not having to cling to the last vestiges of a deceased family name. Perhaps the most sensible, and indeed safest route; but does it not betray the heart and soul of this thing of ours?

"If the bond was real and properly maintained, as per the standard agreement for choosing to follow a leader, I will follow said bloodline/individual through all of my descendants. Not through a process of indoctrination, but through a process of teaching exactly what makes certain individuals trustworthy and complimentary to my bloodline compared to that of others. It doesn't betray the heart and soul of this thing of ours because I teach my children properly and leave them advice for what to do in the case of something happening to me. They'd be fools to trust anyone else because no one else knows and protects them like I do."

Finally, is a family bond something that is merely optional, an outdated concept not applicable to an era where families are only crews and HQ's are mere shelters from bullets and ne'er more? I certainly hope not, though. Seeing as there are a few among us who've jumped ship and hopped aboard with another city when opportunity came around, is certainly troubling.

"A family bond is what you make of it, if a leader offers nothing but protection from bullets all they deserve is the bare minimum of trust. If a leader truly goes after putting you in a position to succeed and keeps a close relationship linking themselves to you and taking risks on you, you should stay loyal but then again some people do these things without ever first trying to figure out if the individual is loyal to them in the first place which makes them fools begging for a betrayal because those aren't bonds of trust from person to person they're usually bonds of trust based on killing competency or earnings."

"Hopping ship has always been around, don't let any 'historians' fool you. The difference was in the commitment made by both members and leaders to each other back in the day according to my journal entries."