After the death last night of those in Old City District and Bella Vista - Maria crosses herself, looks to the sky and murmers "Rest in peace" - Maria spent some time sat in one of the coffee shops on IRC Avenue, watching the outrage that ensued. Some she could well understand. There were those who had lost family in Philadelphia who were angry as to the reasoning of their deaths, and to Maria, who had received a copy of the logs of the city meeting well in advance of their publication in response to TheTripleDeuce's speech, she could understand the anger of those people. There was another type of anger, though, and that was at the lack of a protection order on the survivors of the fallen families, and this was something that Maria was having more trouble getting her head around. Protection orders had for some time been somewhat a bone of contention for Maria, and she felt as though it was finally time to speak up.

Deciding that it was too late the previous night for her to be making speeches, she went home and got some sleep, thinking more carefully over breakfast about what exactly it was that she wanted to say. She finally got dressed and headed out onto the street, picking one of her usual speaking haunts. 

Good morning ladies and gentlemen.

I'm here today to speak to and hopefully with you all on the issue of protection orders. 

This is an issue that has been on my mind for some time, and has been something that I have considered speaking out on several times, but one that I usually leave on the wayside because another issue captures my attention more. Following on from last night, however, I feel as though it is one which it is necessary for somebody to speak on. So, here I am. 

I won't start with the specific issues which last night raised, I'll get to those later. I'll start off with what has troubled me about protection orders first.

When the hell did protection orders become two week long? And why the hell did protection order become two weeks long? From the journals of my ancestors, the first Ziva, it was noted that Cpt-Harris, straight after the May War, did extend the length of protection orders as there were more new recruits and people who had lost their leaders than there were leaders to take them in. To me, that is a reasonable reason to extend these orders. There is no reason to cause the deaths of those who are an active part of our world over a simple matter of logistics. 

However. However. I'm fairly sure that after the aftermath of that May war died down, two week protection orders ceased to be something that my bloodline noted down. I'm fairly sure we went back to what my line has already considered a more standard one week of protection. So I'm not quite sure when the transition back to two week pro orders as the norm happened, it's something that only myself has made note of in the journals, although it might be that it is a longer running thing. 

What I've never understood since I realized that two week pro orders were back, however, is why they're back. I don't remember an announcement from the Godfather Council explaining this change of policy. I don't remember anybody debating the lengths of them - although I admit that beyond reading the initial announcement, I have little interest in reading down through what I consider to be a parade of crew leaders, many of whom will only bother commenting on the announcement to make it look more like they actually have a street presence. So perhaps it is something that has been discussed at the site of one of those speeches. 

Lets face it: there aren't many reasons for a two week protection order. If a person is inactive enough in our world that one full week is insufficient to have them find a new home in our world, does affording them another not just encourage what I consider a rampant scourge of inactivity? There are already leaders in our world who appear to have crews more inactive than active, although hopefully with the latest changes brought forth by the Gods, this is a situation which may begin to change, why allow the people who seem to have little interest in being part of our world to have extra protection? Does that not just encourage people to not really bother as much?

Beyond that, last night and today following the speech explaining the actions last night, I have seen quite a number of folks complaining about the fact that no protection order was made by TheTripleDeuce, or indeed, by any other Godfather after the primary targets of the take down were eliminated. While I fully understand that it is thoroughly unpleasant to see people die for what many would consider to be simply feeding the guns of hitters, I also would like to make the case for the decision to put in place a protection order not being an automatic one, as it has seemed so often as late, ending wars before they really have started. In this case last night, because of TheTripleDeuce's reasoning as presented and the logs from the city meeting which have since made the rounds and cast a rather different light on the mail he used as his excuse to plan an attack, I cannot blame him for wanting to see the district wiped, because anybody who was loyal to one of the fallen would surely have a reasonable argument for being angry at the reasoning. To leave them alive may have put TheTripleDeuce and his district in future danger. 

But at the end of the day, surely there are many reasons why a leader may not choose to put a protection order up? Why has it become an expectation that they will? Is it a further sign of the decline of the standards in our world? I've heard "blood in, blood out" tossed around a number of times in the past 24 hours. Is this statement now also out of vogue and considered irrelevant? If you do believe in "blood in, blood out", can you even reasonably argue against no protection orders being given?

Protection orders are curious things, there's no doubt about that. I'd like to hear the thoughts and feelings of some of the other members of our community on this.

Maria stands down and waits, hoping to hear other voices chime in.

I believe I made my thought on protection orders, albeit in a sort of confusing way, during the other speech. However, for complete clarity, I may as well divulge a little more into them here.

In my eyes, I can't see a situation that would require a protection order, short of the Crewleader spontaneously retiring from our world, or when gun malfunctions used to happen. Luckily, guns are much better maintained now, which kind of negates that reason.

What are the reasons for a protection order? It's simple really, to give those lower members of the targets family, or crew rather, protection against the attackers and the rest of the world, as they are seen as 'innocents' in the war, and should not be harmed, and given the chance to find a new family. I honestly don't see another reason, but if there is, don't hesitate to put me in my place.

My feelings on them, are get rid of them. As I said, short of a Crewleader retiring without notice, a protection order shouldn't be used.

They give the attacked family members a chance to retaliate. Sure, a lot of them may keep their heads down, find a new family, and be loyal to them, but what about the ones who won't? What if they try a pot shot at a sponsored member, and just happen to kill them, be it through gun skill or pure luck. This is a situation that could be avoided very easily, and yet now you have a sponsored member dead, because you've let 'innocents' live.

In my opinion, there are no innocents in a war. If you join a family, or crew, whatever, you only get out if you die, or get authorised to lead your own family. Barring that, you stay with your leader, and stick by them to the end, the end being your death, not their's.

This morning i was woke up abruptly as the glass in my Manhattan hotel window smashed and the bullet lodged in the wall. startled i rolled out of bed drawing my weapon firing wildly to try and scare of the perps who i never saw.   The commotion quickly brought hotel staff to my room as I still laying on the floor pointed to the window and the mark in the wall.

As quickly as i could i tried contacting all the safe houses all the diners and hang outs of the family but no one answered, an ominous silence it seemed as i queried round for news, soon i received a telegram from a lady named jynx simply saying they are all dead, get to safety.  I dropped to the ground confused, disorientated and angry but contacted the number on the strip of paper to ask what i could do, but was told simply get to safety as was all that was left.  I didn't like the order, but decided I would follow it as a last tribute to my fallen boss.

My general thoughts in these days where half a crew maybe inactive is play things smart on protection orders, if there is something you can gain from keeping people alive, who are the real threats if any when taking down a crew, who will react even if not of rank?

As those made and above and able to form their own crew i would expect to see these people dead and in the first line of fire.  It may sound harsh but these are people who took an oath, as for associates. these are often fresh meat to the family, untapped potential.  They can still be shaped and profited from, so why not give them a chance, they won't have generally known whats going on or be a sufficient threat.  For those who may say, what about when they grow in age?; i ask what difference in a next of kin feeling hard done by for their loss.

Do i believe 2 weeks is too long for a protection order, i believe 1 week is.  It takes 30 minutes maximum generally to get into a family some even less as the invites fall quick to a fallens crew in some cases even without a mail.  I honestly believe a week is the maximum a protection order should ever be.

I must admit, when I returned to this way of life a short while a go I was quite confused to see protection orders lasting more than a week and I can only help but wonder how this came about to be the norm. I can only imagine that it was given once, then twice, then thrice and it just went from there, for no reason at all apparently. 

I'd like to see protection orders done in a different way. This is what I would recommend. 

Anyone ranked Wise Guy or below is afforded 1 week of protection from the hungry vultures that would be circling them. The reason for this is that these people are just associates. They are not family, not yet. Not until they have been given the trust and honour of being promoted to Made Man, a member of the family. This is void if the person has already been inactive for more than 7 days, tagged or not. 

Anyone ranked Made Man and above should be afforded 2 weeks of protection from the vultures. These are people that have made their bones, proven loyalty and trust and been given the honour to enter the family. They should be given more appreciation than the associates. Even if this person has already been active for more than 7 days. 

Now, that's how I do it or would do it. The kicker is though I would only ever do this in times of retirement or if that bastard Tyler some how got a shot off on one of the leaders. I firmly have my fingers crossed that he's still going to shoot lronSight. In times of take downs I believe the protection order should come from the attacking leader and the attacking leader only. It should be completely at their discretion whether or not these now homeless people should be protected as at the end of the day, as has already been said, Some of those now homeless might want revenge, some may not and go and pledge their loyalty to a new leader. Who cares, they were only associates. So it is up to the attacking leader to judge the potential of a future threat and set protection orders accordingly. 

Slight correction

"Even if this person has already been inactive for more than 7 days. 

Tepid listens on to all words spoken regarding protection orders, after waiting for the right time to voice his thoughts, a moment arises and so he speaks.

"I won't keep you long, I will just say what I have to.

Protection orders are something I do not personally believe in, why? So many claim they are loyal and so it should remain that way, now let me explain loyalty. In my eyes, you pledge your allegiance to that one, the one you believe can lead you to many great things, you remain faithful until the very end, you have committed yourself, there should be no ifs and no buts. Now if one decides to chose not to be loyal, that does not look good for them, jumping from pillar to post all the time? Why would you allow someone like that to be in your family? To me, looks bad for business and personally, I think it is disrespectful to the one who took you in and gave you a home... But that's me.

There should only be two reasons in my eyes on how you'd be able to leave your family you are suppose to be loyal too.

A. Your leader decides to call it a day, and gives you time to find a new family before he or indeed she retires to a life of luxury.

B. You die.

Loyalty can be described in one word."

Tepid feels uneasy, he isn't sure whether the American air is getting to him today, or whether it is the pressure of talking in front of all these people gathering over a subject such as this, but he continues anyway.

"Tepid." He pauses for a moment. "That's right, Tepid. My loyalty goes far, if my boss dies in a war, I would fight until the end. If my boss retires for a tidy life, I retire too, it's as simple as that. I can give an example of my bloodlines loyalties. I can see some of you growing tired, but I am nearly finished so please, be a little more patient with me.

I once had a grandfather by the name of Franco, he worked for a man who went by the name of General_Snip. Words were spoken between a few and somewhere along the lines, it was decided that General_Snip would be murdered, this was the first case of my bloodlines loyalty. Franco, rest his soul, retired due to the fact, he'd lost his leader in his sleep. That was that.

So loyalties should stay with that who took you in and let you grew, anything else is only considered as being disrespectful."

Tepid steps back and awaits whatever is said to him.

2 weeks protection orders are a joke if I'm honest. How does someone need 2 weeks to find a family? Not only that but do these 2 week protection order only apply to inactive folk within our world? Since if it applies to active also they have a protection for 2 weeks without having to answer to anyone.

In regards to rank protection. I firmly believe those of Made Man and above need to go. They are a part of the family, therefore they are more likely to retaliate, although in this day and age I feel many would lean more towards saving their own skin if they had half a chance. Unless it's needed in order to weaken a leader then the lower members of the family shouldn't need to be touched. Also if the leader has died in the first wave of attacks then there is no real threat there either. Sure some may fire off some pop shots but it wouldn't be enough to do any real damage.

So, what should the protection order be? (OOC: Once your leader dies and you log on after that and then log off without getting an invite, then for me you have 30 mins from your last active time until you die. To me that seems fair. If they don't log on for 3 days after the leader has died then they should be a free shot)

Protection orders suck.

Kill everyone. They were probably all dicks anyway.

Zack joined the conversation a little later than the others. Once he had noticed his fellow crew member, Maria, making her point on the soapbox, he knew it would be a topic with substance. Substance; and maybe some form of her breakfast she could share with him.

The good thing with protection orders, is that they are entirely at the discretion of the attacker/s. I don't think there should necessarily be a common rule for the entire world/city, however, I would have thought each district would have a some form of collective strategy. 

If this was the case, and to save on any sort of confusion, how about list them in the city/district rules? Everyone then can reference these and see what the stance on this is.

Just a thought, or are there too many variables to consider depending on who the victims are?

Penstilyg has a valid point.

I agree with Jono,anyone ranked Wise Guy or below is afforded 1 week of protection,because they are not family members jet,all others made man,capo etc.dont deserve any protection,they were members of faimily...

Anytime a protection order comes into play the attacking side takes a gamble that those left wont wake from there slumber and start shooting at anything that moves.

Hence in times past you never seen these protection orders issued, Not to say i am 100% against them though dureing war i think all made+ should be eradicated with extreme prejudice as they are all sworn into the family A Right or Left hand even more so.

We seen not that long ago then our little Kitten Kittyhawk retired to the warm beaches of Florida and asked that his members be afforded time to find a new home, One of his made men came across one of my little gangsters sleeping in a run down hotel in Chicago and gunned him down,Now normaly i would have negotiated a deal with our furry friend but since he was sipping cocktails on the beach that could not happen was this just and accident? Or had this mademan decided that he was just going to travel around and shoot at people? The chance could not be taken so he was dealt with.

Dureing war time things could get even more messy you just never know how anyone is going to react even if there just a wiseguy, What if this wise guy had built a nice gun? Woke from his slumber and nails a very important member of a family not involved in said war?