Utopia; I often agree. It is blood in, blood out. You're in a family for life. This specific family is different in my eyes because the majority of the members had become men of honor elsewhere. They had made their bones under Don Calisto, who stepped down as a leader due to other worldly problems.

The death of Buscetta was valid in my eyes. I'll shed a little light in case you didn't know.

When I had heard the reason, I was surprised he was not removed earlier and I immediately went to speak to Starscream, and my own Godmother, Amethyst.

From what was seen; Buscetta was 'drinking' and harassing female mobsters within Inglewood to the point of where one of the members was considering leaving the life of crime. At this point removal was needed and imminent.

I would not kill 10-20 people who were loyal to their Godfather Starscream because their Don, Buscetta, was harassing women and otherwise being a fucking douchebag while in a position of power.

No one deserved that.

I have the one question here on the basis of this topic because I do agree with it in principle. Utopia, Vaelin_Al_Sorna and Kyubey especially, I would be interested to hear the opinions of you three on this matter especially. 

I very much agree that when a crew leader dies, it really isn't appropriate in the majority of cases for a Made Man or above to be offered shelter in another city - although I can possibly think of a few exceptions to this.

I’m here to ask why Made Men, members of their family, have been offered protection given the fact that their crew leader was removed.

I can see why protection would be offered in the case of one crew leader in a district being removed but the rest of the district remaining standing. But I would think that surely that protection would only apply to members who were moving in to another crew in the same district or in an affiliated district? (Like, say a district closely linked that had perhaps been authed from that district?). People moving at random across different cities when their leaders die does seem like an abuse of that protection, however I do believe that in a case like this, people should be allowed a chance to find a different crew in at least the same district. After all, they have sworn loyalty to their crew leader, but I think that most Godfathers would expect to see that members under their protection (so including in the crews in their district) also be loyal to them as the Godfather of the district, in that same oath. 

So would you also always say no to protection for people to remain in the same district despite the deaths of their leader? This is a potential can of worms, in my opinion. Say an leader becomes a Godfather and thirty members of his crew right away are sent to work under a leader that they did not choose to join or to swear their initial loyalty to. They then see this leader killed for whatever reason. Their loyalty initially wasn't even sworn to this man, it was sworn to the Godfather. But they still die for his actions?

Kyubey has provided an insight into the specific example I made reference to in my speech. I’ve got to stand by my point that Made Men that decided to move on after the death of Buscetta were disrespecting their leader. You may take this as evidence that Buscetta’s crew didn’t believe he deserved this respect given the fact that he had been disrespectful to certain members - as you say. The consequences of their leader’s disrespect could arguably have ‘other worldly’ impacts on the victims and I understand why these victims will hardly feel obliged to stick their neck outs for someone who has potentially upset them. I can only assume that every single Made Man in this crew felt the same way.

Maria My general principle would be that following the death of a crew leader, a member would look to fight the force that killed their crew leader. If remaining in their district or city for that matter (e.g. during a war) under a new leader involved fighting this force, then that is completely understandable.

You also bring up the dilemna of choosing whether you are loyal to your leader when they have moved into a Godfather crew of their own. In this case, it is a completely reasonable idea to be loyal to the Godfather that gave you the button. I can think to one of my ancestors who lived and worked in St Louis. Following the promotion of my ancestor’s crew leader to Godfather, my ancestor moved to work under the underboss, before becoming a RHM in the same city under a new leader. After my ancestor’s Godfather was removed from power by the underboss there was a burning question – where did loyalty lie? In the end, my ancestor decided that despite all the blurred lines around this specific case, loyalty lay with the original Godfather who gave my ancestor the button. 

I agree with those that have said blood in, blood out. Though, sometimes the rules are broken or bent in certain situations. A new auth requesting a member to be their right hand from a different city. It depends if that member’s crew leader is willing to give up that member in general and to another city. Other times blood in, blood out doesn’t hold up is the situation Kyubey explained to us. Though, I don’t agree with Calisto/Buscetta’s members leaving the district or even city to be with their friends instead of their family. In a perfect world I would have liked to see Starscream track down those ship jumpers and shooting them for abandoning their family. Harsh? Maybe, but we are criminals and we live a bloody life. If nothing is done about deserters why value does that give the people that actually stay loyal to the crew, family. 

Utopia, I like the different look on the rank of Made Man you’ve stated. It’s easy to say crew leaders of our world these days put little stock in the made man promotion. It’s incredibly easy in general to see a problem and point a finger at the crew leaders blaming them. I’m not saying crew leaders aren’t at fault here, it’s a community issue. If members of a crew see nothing different between the rank of Wise Guy and Made Man, then what is a crew leader to do?

It’s been said over several years now that there is a huge problem with ranks and the lack of weight put into each, specially Made Man plus. So, when new faces come to these shores they aren’t taught that the rank of made man means anything besides the next rank up and more space in your pocket to carry more drugs. Whose fault is that? The crew leaders? Members of the family? The sponsor? Or the general lack of value the community gives to ranks? 

Even if more people put in more effort to make ranks mean something again it may fall on deaf ears. There are so many options in our world, many cities, even more districts and plenty of families to find your place in. So, if a member isn’t having any fun with their family, all loyalty can be simply tossed out the window. Friends and good times seem to be trumping loyalty and family these days. If a person has that sort of mind set I doubt they have any care or put any value in the ranking system.