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What would you change? Started by: Curtis on Aug 13, '14 19:19

Curtis had wandered around a bit that day. With time between jobs and a post was quiet, he'd had time to mull over the society he'd found since returning to this country. Interested by the transitions and changes, he decided to take his curiosity to the streets. Walking over to a local square, he got himself a cup of coffee from a bakery and addressed the crowd.

The subject of formality, rules and procedure has come up in recent discussion. There have been some conflicting opinions about what is the right and wrong way to go about things. People putting forward ideas about what they think is right and wrong, what should be and what is. There seems to be numerous lively lines of thought on many issues and no lack of courage to share an opinion.

I have seen a lot of changes to what old journals lead me to expect when I arrived here. I have my own opinions on the things I've found. Some I understand, some seem like natural progressions and some seem like regression. In some cases simply backward. But I am also aware that this is your world, far more than it is mine and I am interested to know more about the thoughts of you all. So I pose this question...

After a sip of his coffee he continues.

Of the systems, rules and procedures we have in this world today, what would you change if you could? And why?

I know and accept the governing Godfathers make and enforce the rules, this isn't the question. This is simply meant as healthy, constructive debate. I am always interested in listening to different ideas. I want to know what you, in your own experience, have observed and what you would change. How would your change improve our society and help facilitate the evolution of our existence?

Taking a seat, he sips his coffee and listens to what people have to say.

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Change. Such a wonderful topic of discussion that you have brought forward Curtis.

I would like to see many things changed in our community's rules and procedures. I will try to sum them up as much as I can.

  • Quiet Leaders - You know the ones that do not speak at all? The ones you hardly notice because their presence makes them just about non-existent. This is something I would like to see changed. When there are discussions happening, I would like to see them speak. Get a feel for what they care about. As a young gangster it is hard to pick families if you have no idea what the leaders stand for.  I mean you can send messages through a errand boy to try and find out in the allotted time but personally I would like to see what they have to say when you aren't directly speaking to them. Get a feel for who they are.
  • Loyalty - Would definitely love to see people take this word to heart. Not loyalty to their cliques and best friends, but to their families. If you choose to be in one then it is to them you should owe an allegiance, not to your friend over in the next city to the West. Know what I mean? I feel that this word has been lost to a great many.
  • Hard work - Another thing that seems to be lost. I get that in certain roles trust is a main factor but do not forget those that work hard for their leaders. Those are the ones that should be remembered, not the slackers who gave you nothing. Nothing shouldn't be rewarded. This would be nice to see as a change.
  • Street Newbies - These people should be encouraged, not discouraged. At least they do put in some sort of effort. More encouragement in this area would be lovely. Not everyone can phrase just right. So before jumping to conclusions it would be nice to see people consider what is said, and ask questions. Knowledge comes in useful and it never hurts to find out what someone meant if you don't understand it clearly.

These are just a few of the things that I have thought of. Maybe others can bring a few more to the table as well.

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You know, it's hard for me to go in to what I would change without harping on about what I have already spoken about with in the past couple of months but there is a very good reason for that. I believe in my morals and I believe in my principles. I well and truly believe the thing I would change is for the better. If you don't believe in yourself and in your own principles then I think there is something fundamentally wrong with you. I could talk about this all day long and often have done. 


So before anyone pops out here and starts with the "Blah blah, heard it before blah poop" bull crap. Guess what... I know. I just feel strongly about it. 

 

What I would change is the importance of rank. I'm not going to blab on about it's decline over the years and how different the 'good ole days' were because... well... I can't be arsed. What I will offer though is what I and the generations of Izzelites before me have done to hold on to such importance. 

 

Let's start with the one that is no longer possible. I have always believed and always made sure that I or any of my members were ever the same rank as the Crewleader him or herself. I thought this was just blatant common sense but obviously, if there is a loop hole, people will hop, skip and jump through it. Such is life. Thankfully though, it is now no longer possible for this to happen. The loop hole has been closed. 

 

Secondly, it's no secret that every family has positions with in it. Whether that be the obvious ones like RHM, LHM or HSL but even the other ones like a witness statement collector, family bar operator, Advisors, sub crew leaders or what ever it is people have dreamt up further than the standard ones to keep people happy and interested. The reason I bring these up is because I feel and I always operate the policy that no one below the rank of Made Man should ever hold one of these positions. An associate should never be given any sort of authority over a Made Man and above. Ever. Again it seems like common sense. Again before the idiot brigade come out and point this out I will point it out myself. I myself found myself in a position where I was a Wise Guy RHM for lronsight, GRHS. Unfortunately with these positions not everyone agrees with your own personal principles and it is rude to disobey your Crewleader. When you don't have much choice in the matter there is not much you can do about it. The reason I say this is because the way I would change this is by hoping every crewleader now and in the future holds to the same principle and realises how absurd it sounds that an associate has authority over Made Men+. 

 

Thirdly is the pickpocketing stance that ScipitaRourke and one of my ancestors came up with a very long time a go. Anyone ranked as an associate (Between thug to wise guy) are free to Pickpocket any associate they damn well feel like. I would never want to find their hands in the pockets of anyone ranked Made Man and above though. They have not earned that right yet. After all, they are just associates. Made Man+ it gets a little trickier. I would never have anyone pickpocket anyone who out ranks them. So I would never have a Made Man pickpocket a Capo but I would have that same Capo pickpocket that same Made Man. I hope that makes sense. When it comes to mugging, you take the risk? You take the consequence. However, I wouldn't want to be a lowly Gangster taking the risk of mugging a Don. 

 

These are the things I would change Curtis. Thank you for bringing this topic to our streets. 

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Listening to the two speakers contribute, Curtis finds himself nodding.

"Anarchy. You raise good points and your first is a key issue. And absolutely critical aspect of our existence and something I have thought about a great deal:"

  • Quiet Leaders - You know the ones that do not speak at all? The ones you hardly notice because their presence makes them just about non-existent. This is something I would like to see changed. When there are discussions happening, I would like to see them speak. Get a feel for what they care about. As a young gangster it is hard to pick families if you have no idea what the leaders stand for.  I mean you can send messages through a errand boy to try and find out in the allotted time but personally I would like to see what they have to say when you aren't directly speaking to them. Get a feel for who they are.

"I have always held the belief that leaders needed to be vocal. Leaders lead! They set the example for everyone else to follow. New blood and old who come into our world will try to learn how to conduct themselves and without exception, the first people they will look to learn from will be those in bold. My roots come from a time where it was impossible to be given a chance at leadership without being. It was considered an essential skill that not only had to be proved, it had to be maintained in order to retain one's position. there were countless cases of leaders being given a chance on the back of a lot of hard work in the streets, only to have themselves removed from their positions for slacking of and becoming silent later on. But reminiscing about those times has limited value when we are trying to look forward...

My question about this then becomes, how would you establish a set of rules or enforceable guidelines for street presence? A lot of people in power would agree with the principals but everyone needs a benchmark to work to and be judged by.

This also touches on your point about 'Street Newbies'. I have experienced set rules in a family for acquiring your button, there was a minimum of one street speech and twenty replies to various street issues, just to get made. It proved hard for quite a few of our members so we had to develop an in-house workshop to help people develop the skills and confidence to go into the streets and speak. It was a lot of work but in the long run it was immensely beneficial. Now this was one family dealing with their own members but it serves as a microcosm for the collective Godfathers that comprise our current leadership, they will look at the country as a whole as we did our family. So the question is, what would you consider to be a realistic set of rules for them to lay down for leaders? In becoming leaders and maintaining their positions once they have them?"

  • Loyalty - Would definitely love to see people take this word to heart. Not loyalty to their cliques and best friends, but to their families. If you choose to be in one then it is to them you should owe an allegiance, not to your friend over in the next city to the West. Know what I mean? I feel that this word has been lost to a great many.

"I understand this point but it is a very subjective issue. As soon as the argument is brought up there are all sorts of extenuating circumstances and  interpretations of meaning. The simplest differences I can see only become apparent when looking back over a long, long time. If we go way back then protection orders were not what they are now. If you decided to join a family and that family's leader was killed, you died. Simple as that. No getting around it, no exceptions made. You were fucking finished. Now I'm not saying that was a better way to be but it did create a slightly different mid set in your average mobster. I have read journals from times when my ancestors had to go to war with best friends in other families and even kill their friends because of the oath they took to their crew. There was a great deal of consideration given to which family a young mobster chose as it was universally known, that  decision was your last. You would live and without question you would die for that family. Again I am not saying this was a better or worse system than we have now but it was a different set of rules that created a very different psychology in everyone. Especially in their loyalty.

So what would you suggest as a change now, in our time, to create a greater emphasis on loyalty?

As for your point about hard work. I agree completely. I do think though that if these initial points are addressed then the general work rate of the community would increase enormously. The leaders would be setting the example and benchmarks for everyone. All new and returning mobsters would be under no illusions about what was required of them to progress in our society. I don't think a leader that had been forced to work their ass off to succeed, would have much time for members slacking off. As such I think they would have a much more active membership. Wouldn't you agree?"

Turning to Jono Curtis smiled.

"Jono, as a leader yourself I must thank you for coming here and adding your voice to this conversation. Also, on a personal level, of all the hubcap-stealing-scouse-bastids I know, you are the greatest, so your presence here means all the more. 

Let's start with the one that is no longer possible. I have always believed and always made sure that I or any of my members were ever the same rank as the Crewleader him or herself. I thought this was just blatant common sense but obviously, if there is a loop hole, people will hop, skip and jump through it. Such is life. Thankfully though, it is now no longer possible for this to happen. The loop hole has been closed.

"I agree completely with this principal and yes it would seem to be just common sense. I can appreciate this may seem hypocritical of me given I currently hold the same rank as the head of my family but the decision to award me this rank was taken by my leader and Godfather Cantillon during a war for several reasons. I respect their decision and don't see it as affecting my loyalty or sense of position in my family.

As for your second point about internal positions in a family, I believe this to be a very valid point. Although each family is it's own house and run by the rules of it's leader and as such there can be no hard and fast set of universal rules for all families (I'm not sure anyone would want that), the principals of each are very important. I've always though each crew should be a testing ground and learning place that reflects the community as a whole. New mobsters should enter a family and see structure, respect for ranks and positions and learn to behave accordingly. These principals will then be easily translated into the streets and the community as a whole.

I have experienced all kinds of different crew structures From the unbelievably strict to the incomprehensibly slack. I have even encountered a set of crew rules that were solely comprised of four words "Don't be a dick". Now as humorous and philosophically perfect as that may have been, I have found structure and respect to be important benchmarks for breeding successful mobsters."

Whether that be the obvious ones like RHM, LHM or HSL but even the other ones like a witness statement collector, family bar operator, Advisors, sub crew leaders or what ever it is people have dreamt up further than the standard ones to keep people happy and interested. The reason I bring these up is because I feel and I always operate the policy that no one below the rank of Made Man should ever hold one of these positions.

"The general rule of thumb you mentioned here would seem a solid base-line to start from."

The reason I say this is because the way I would change this is by hoping every crewleader now and in the future holds to the same principle and realises how absurd it sounds that an associate has authority over Made Men+. 

 "I would hope so too! As you say, it would seem like common sense. Onto your third suggestion..."

 Anyone ranked as an associate (Between thug to wise guy) are free to Pickpocket any associate they damn well feel like. I would never want to find their hands in the pockets of anyone ranked Made Man and above though. They have not earned that right yet. After all, they are just associates. Made Man+ it gets a little trickier. I would never have anyone pickpocket anyone who out ranks them. So I would never have a Made Man pickpocket a Capo but I would have that same Capo pickpocket that same Made Man. I hope that makes sense. When it comes to mugging, you take the risk? You take the consequence. However, I wouldn't want to be a lowly Gangster taking the risk of mugging a Don. 

"Pickpocketing has always been a sensitive issue. This set of principals however, would seem a pretty flawless solution to me. It ties in with rank and respect and gives no room for subjective interpretation. I know attitudes toward picking pockets have changed a lot, especially now, but it can still be considered invasive and used as an underhanded way to find out personal information. because of this I would still be in favour of some type of regulation for it and I can't see any flaw in the simple rank related system you proposed. I'm obviously not close minded on the issue though and always interested to hear further suggestions."

Shaking Anarchy and Jono's hands, he smiled.

"Thank you both for coming out and making such solid contributions to the discussion. I appreciate your input."

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Anarchy smiled as she listened to Curtis. Her thoughts were turning on the matter and as they settled she began to speak.

For the leaders issue I think needs to be changed I would not recommend that forced street speaking is the way to go. It never is. However, I feel those looking to promote someone to head up their own family should look to see if they are bothering to be vocal. My line began in the times of street speaking being demanded in order for rank. My line has always hated the forced feeling and does much better when it is free to choose. As I said before not everyone is cut out for the streets but I believe that if leaders really wish to rule they would be out here, among everyone, speaking from time to time. I don't mean they have to share every tiny detail about themselves but they could join in on discussions or go as far as to create one themselves. I don't think looking back would make the future worse. There are some things that we could be benefit from our ancestor's journals and some that maybe now have no place in what has become. The future is what we make it.

My line has passed quite a few family doors that do not encourage help for Street Newbies. I personally can have my leader check things before I post them but I have to ask. Maybe in this instance those work shops should be brought back? Leaders should have some way for their members to know whether they are available to help them in the instances they get stuck with something they want to say or just need to have something proof read. Doesn't necessarily even have to be a leader, maybe they have appointed that task for someone who is comfortable in the streets in their HQ. I just feel that if someone is trying their hand at this skill for the first time there are many to criticize rather than offer encouragement. This may lead to why leaders sit quiet. Maybe they aren't so good at the street speaking and their leaders before them let it slide. Both of these issues could lead into the other depending on cases.

Loyalty sometimes has its grey issues. When I speak of loyalty I mean those of Made Man. Those that have been inducted into the family. If your leader is killed by another leader then you should follow them. I always found it silly that people were saved during wars and conflicts. It just doesn't make sense to me. You joined that leader, you accepted greater responsibility and what not once you were given Made Man. Why would you not die with your leader? Why should another leader trust you when you have proven to be such a flake in the first place? Logically it does not make sense to me to allow anyone over Made Man to continue living once their leader has been killed. Only exceptions I can see is if their leader were killed by a roguing individual or they tripped over their own gun in the middle of the night while getting a glass of water. 

I agree on the point you made with hard work. I really couldn't have said it better.

Stepping to side after shaking Curtis' hand to listen to the rest of what was being said.

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Anarchy, you speak here about vocal leaders, and sure, many of us would like to see that, but it's really not so long since you had an ancestor in bold, and to see whether or not you're actually practicing what you preach here - which I very much doubted, because the thing that I remember that ancestor for wasn't her being vocal on the streets - I decided to look through the archives of our world a little. I found there two, but possibly three (or the third could've been another ancestor with the same name) speeches to her name. One of which was her auth speech. Two speeches doesn't make somebody a vocal leader. So unless you've had some kind of spectacular re-calibration of your lines opinions since then, it looks a little hypocritical of you to now complain about the less vocal of our leaders. I mean, its really not that long since your great-great-great-great-great Grandmother (might've skipped a few greats, I'm sorry, I lost track) Melis did run Corktown. And she didn't seem interested in being the change that you obviously wish to see in our world.

Now, Anarchy, I will agree with you that one of the things I would like to see more is for our world to have more vocal leaders. The fact that he ventures out onto the streets pretty regularly was a factor in my decision to join Mako. Why join a leader who isn't particularly vocal on the streets if that is something you'd like to see, and there are more vocal leaders out there?  Forced speaking isn't a good thing, but a wise man once told me that to be something in this world, you'd need either a street presence or a coffee shop one - basically for people to recognize you one way or another. I can accept that some leaders do have a coffee shop one rather than a streets one, but I also feel like some are totally anonymous in every way and I do feel like that is a downright unhealthy situation.

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It's a good question, everyone has their own ideas to paint upon their canvases.

Personally, I think it would be in our best interest to stop bringing our work over to the west coast. It seems to slow down business and it takes forever and a day to get there and back again. It brings nothing new to the table that the other cities aren't already doing. So why travel such a long way?

I'd love to see the districts have a closer bonding too, right now the districts seem to have completely separate families within them rather than one big one.

I also think it's unacceptable for anyone who hasn't made their bones to get away with mugging those who are Made Men and above.

Echoing what others have said, more leaders out here giving their opinions. I don't expect countless amounts of speeches but at least an opinion on the topics raised out here.

There's plenty I feel that should and could be changed but I acknowledge that the current set of leaders are doing a good job. I know many are currently saying the place is going to the ground but it's always so easy to say that when your parent has just died.
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I'd speak a bit more on this topic... But I'm lazy. There are plenty of other speeches given that encompass similar ideals. 

 

Leaders do need to speak, and have a personality in the streets. That's probably my biggest issue at the moment, but no change has occurred since this issue was first brought up, and well, I don't see it changing now. 

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Curtis listens to the various contributors.

"Achilles, you raise an interesting point about the distance we travel from coast to coast."

Personally, I think it would be in our best interest to stop bringing our work over to the west coast. It seems to slow down business and it takes forever and a day to get there and back again. It brings nothing new to the table that the other cities aren't already doing. So why travel such a long way?

"The time spent travelling the great span has changed from my past experience and it is far more inconvenient and presents a considerable obstacle in business. It demands a lot more thinking before taking such a long trip. The downside of that is that we are reluctant to go that distance unless there is a substantial incentive to do so. Your suggestion of adapting coastal pursuits so that we no longer even use the opposite coast is very interesting. How would you insulate our work without creating friction with the families on the other coast or causing an unfair advantage to those families geographically well situated between both?"

I'd love to see the districts have a closer bonding too, right now the districts seem to have completely separate families within them rather than one big one.

"The structure of the cities has changed a lot and I've heard many opinions on it. You do raise a core issue that seems common to most with this point. In the past I've seen various methods of unifying families into a collective. Some worked better than others. Given the structure of our cities now and the divisions with districts, what would you suggest as a method to reunite and harmonize them?"

Turning to BloodySpikeS, he smiles.

"Spike, my friend, thanks for adding your voice to this. You seem to have hit the nail on the head about laziness. And had the good grace to include yourself."

Leaders do need to speak, and have a personality in the streets. That's probably my biggest issue at the moment, but no change has occurred since this issue was first brought up, and well, I don't see it changing now. 

"This again raises the question of how. How would you see the street presence of leaders increased? What format, rules or regulation would you see installed to ensure increased and consistent contributions from those in power? 

We've seen times gone by where the governing forces would remove leaders from their positions for a lack of street presence and we've seen times it was impossible to become a leader without establishing yourself this way, so it is entirely possible for the Godfathers to create and enforce rules this strong. What would you suggest?"

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