I just wanted to say that this is by far and a way the most senseless DD I've ever seen.

You can talk about precedent and being consistent in the issuing of punishment; however the beauty of being a higher level manner we are able to apply common sense and practically and evaluate extenuating circumstances.

Before I go into Jeddy and his character (as a person not the account). It's worth mentioning that Toyfriend was once hand for ToyArmadillo who is arguably indirectly responsible for every single crew leader today; certainly directly responsible for a fair chunk of the big ones. Cantillon; Ace; Lush etc.

If we are to consider that (applying his behaviour retroactively, which we must do because there is no way of knowing exactly how long he had been scripting for. Having been around and having known certain players that scripted; and scripted for a long time, it's fair to say that this problem goes relatively unchecked) So applying this retroactively his behaviour indirectly effects the majority of the database.

Furthermore, as a person and the impact his account had on the game; he is one of the very few crew leaders to actually care about his members and take the time to engage with new players and is a genuinely nice human being. If you examine his overall impact on the game i without a doubt would say it has been overwhelmingly positive.

These actions are to ensure that "the law" is doled out equally amongst the database so that there can be no ill feelings. Whilst I am not advocating what I am about to suggest in all cases, but when an account; a godfather account; an account over a year old is DD'd for something that lets face it; is largely beyond his control that the user base should have some say as to whether or not this recourse is appropriate (examining the account in its entirety) 

I humbly propose that players are polled; if not players then crew leaders (acting as representatives as their family's views) be allowed to vote on whether this was a just cause of action. But this recourse really doesn't sit well with me. The game lost a good godfather, a good crew leader and a good person for very little today.

manner = mammal.

And my apologies for stating he was over a year old. (Sure I'll still get reamed for that)

whats sad is this isnt the first questionable DD that ive seen however i believe 90% of the previous ones resulted in a revival

i didnt know jeddy long i worked with him and he seemed like a decent stand up guy OOC and IC

i think the big thing that lead to this is the use of automated software to exploit in game experience, yes it doesnt mean jeddy was privy to the fact that it happened, i do like CL's being held responsible for their hands actions however when it comes to breaking rules with scripts it is a different story than just being a pain in the ass

there should be some sort of random polling implemented when it comes to DD'ing a GF/CL cause of the actions of their RHM, and i say random because if its not random than certain people can ensure their friends never die and always break rules

what it comes down to is OOC actions resulted to Ingame consequences for a GF/CL, in game jeddy did nothing wrong (and OOC) but it was his RHM that broke rules Ingame and OOC now why should a GF/CL beh held responsible for the ingame actions of his RHM, if it was ingame actions then why isnt the population given a chance to deal with it ? since everyone else plays ingame dont we have a choice to choose what our GF/CL's get away with when it comes to them not breaking rules but simply entrusting the wrong individual

First of all I agree with what you said about Jeddy, He was in the first district I was ever in. He was nothing but polite and helpful, any interaction I had with him was great. 

I don't agree with this DD either. How is one to know or control what a person is doing at another computer station half way across the world. In asking around I have been told, the mafia leaders are responsible for what there crew and hands are doing. This wasn't a mafia decision though, if his hand had taken a shot and the GF council decided that Jeddy was responsible, ok understandable. This was Admin catching a cheater and taking out a GF in the process. 

Personally I know that if something like this ever happened to me, I would never step back onto this site or support it in anyway. I seriously hope we don't see Jeddy disappear over it, although I wouldn't blame him. 

The initial issue I would have with polls is that voting would likely be influenced by the popularity of the crew leader - rather than the incident. I cannot imagine a fair scenario involving polls. 
The duty of the admin is to deal with these big decisions - whether we always agree with them or not. I'm sure they didn't take the decision against Jeddy's account lightly. I see a lot of fingers pointed at the admins - yet, very little comments about his RH, Toyfriend. He really threw Jeddy under a bus.

the only issue i have with the decision is a gf was held to a ingame rule usually enforced by the players which was then enforced by and admin. if the players are ok with jeddy getting taxed for his RHM actions they why not let him be taxed if they want him dead then fine but if they want him jailed for a day jail him for a day

jeddy didnt break the rules of the game so he shouldnt be killed by the admins he should be held liable for the rules of the game in character like "would you like a GF who let people script live"

think of it like this if someone makes a target account for some random person why should the victim and the killer get dd'd if they never knew the intentions of the other

You say, "usually enforced by the players" - so do you mean that in the past a CL has been targeted for their RH using scripts?

It is extremely unlikely anybody would risk their own account, in order to try to take down a powerful CL who has plenty of support. Hence, why I think that it's vital an admin team continues to exist and use their knowledge/experience to make these big decisions. The scenario you would appear to favor, is similar to what would happen when, say: a Hand goes rogue. The people in power (other leaders) would then decide whether or not the crew leader should be held accountable for the Hands actions.

what i mean by that is that as a playerbase we should be given the option to decide what RP rules we enforce

a GF/CL being killed for a OOC rule break by their RHM only enforces a RP rule that leaders are responsible for their hands. i dont see a rule stating anywhere that if one person scripts it can essentially get their GF/CL killed

The scenario you would appear to favor, is similar to what would happen when, say: a Hand goes rogue. The people in power (other leaders) would then decide whether or not the crew leader should be held accountable for the Hands actions.

exactly let the players decide the punishment since he didnt break a game rule by housing a scripter (unless he encouraged it).

scripting is a OOC action that affects ingame

jeddy was killed due to a OOC action even though he was literally a ingame character

you wouldnt kill the president if his vice president was charged with exploitation so why kill jeddy?

I find that analogy a little irrelevant, sorry.

As far as I was aware, a CL is responsible for their RH's actions. I considered that a game rule, set by the admins. I would expect to be DD'd if I were a CL and my no.2 broke a serious rule. As a RH for several months in the past, I was well aware that if I broke a rule set by the admins, my CL would be punished alongside me. There are few actions the RH in question could have done that would be considered worse than cheating in the manner in which he did. I completely understand why his friends are frustrated. I would be frustrated at the selfishness of the cheater - but it's still important to try to look at these scenario's without bias or external influence. This is why I believe it's best for the admin team to deal with such matters.

it was confirmed scripting he was in admin jail for almost 3 hours and still active and the moment he was let out he had 2/3 more hits on do not click within seconds

People don't begin scripting at 300 day old 60 unit accounts.

They continue doing it because they've gotten away with it for so long.

Jeddy just happened to be the person whose family he had stumbled into at the time of being caught :/

Players voting on DD's, come on now, really?

People don't begin scripting at 300 day old 60 unit accounts.

That, in a nutshell, says it all.  We are not all so naive that we think it doesn't go on, are we?  I personally have never used a script, ever.  I really don't see the point in cheating on an online (forum?) based game; I have enough real life interests that stroking my ego with an uber account here never really appealed.  

There are scripts out there that can do pretty much everything for you and, scripts these days, if they are well written and implemented, are pretty fucking hard to detect and I have no doubt that Toyfriend is not the only person that is/was doing it presently.  He fucked up though, he got caught and to be honest some sort of precedent needs to be set.  

Was the resulting DD of Jeddy harsh?  Well yeah, but it has been stated on numerous occasions, both in #divinelunacy and in the forums that crewleaders would be held accountable for their hands actions if rules were broken.  

Rules were broken pretty fucking flagrantly, the admins followed through with a punishment that applied to the situation.  Maybe it will discourage people from scripting, maybe it will encourage those that know about it to come forward with info but I doubt either will happen, sad times eh?

On a side note:

Their means to find scripters for this event is extremely flawed as jails empty extremely fast so if you are trying to be fast you will eventually hit a script checker account.

Really?  How about just pay a little attention and don't hit the one that says Do_Not_Click?  I also don't understand how the process is flawed due to the jails emptying, please elaborate..........

My biggest concern with the game right now is that accounts can be discarded way too easily by the admins.

A while back I wouldn't be massively bothered by this but now given the fact that players are more open to spending their RL money on the game I think the admins need to rethink about how they approach things. Especially when in cases such as this, the player who is punished has done nothing wrong. Obviously it can't be a separate rules for those who have donated and those who haven't but I think it does need to be rethought out since players are heavily investing in their accounts more in this day and age.

Heel & I go back a while and in terms of trusting him I do, some have said you must trust your RH a 100% but for me this isn't possible, I wouldn't give Heel the keys to my house or look after my child, that is 100% trust. In terms of this game you can only trust people so far and often RH is a rank which you give to those who you not only trust but to those who you feel deserve the opportunity. Giving anyone that amount of power over your family is always a gamble but it's one we MUST take since we need RH's to help run our families. My point is that there is just no way of knowing someone well enough to know they won't cheat, short of knowing them irl.

To punish someone for someone else's actions just doesn't sit right with me. Especially when they've invested such hard work and possibly their hard earned money too.

one or two clicks of the script checkers is fine but its when you do like 10 and dont reply to a mail and then get admin jail and then when you get out of admin jail and then do like 2/3 more the minute your out something is up

It's so inconsistent that it's hard to tell what the rules REALLY are. CL's and GF's are DDed for hands and members. Sometimes Most of the time, they're not. All this really is doing is giving the chance of the community to lose a good player over this, that's all. But the consistency is such a damn mess, and it comes down to how the admin feel when the time comes for it. Better hope you catch them in a good mood when they got their finger on the button. 

But it took this long for them to come to a final decision on Jeddy? The RHM was DDed last night, admin wake up and DD Jeddy halfway through their day today. Now, where does that make any sense? It's part of the consistency. To me, this is a terrible DD yet again and done prematurely (or rather late?). 

Simple truth of it is, I've seen hands and CL's do worse than scripting and it hasn't cost the leader their life. (Have seen a RHM script and CL not get DDed as well). I've also seen it opposite. If you're looking for a ground rule on how this is done, good luck. 

Someone woke up on the wrong side of the rainbow this morning. 

But to think Jeddy can be held accountable for something he can't even be aware of is nonsense. Does Jeddy have the power to know who is cheating and who isn't? If he did, this wouldn't even be a conversation. Pure utter BS.

Inconsistency, my friends. Inconsistency. 

for once mako i agree with you lol