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The killing of staffs accounts out of revenge & The 303 Started by: Squishy on Nov 01, '14 12:34

It has come to my attention that orders were given for revenge attacks against staff playing accounts. This is beyond unacceptable, we recently explained that is not acceptable and we had hoped that it wouldn’t come to this. Staff are here to help and it is not an easy job, they give up their time and being harassed or penalized in game for doing their job is not acceptable.

We recently decided that all staff action would be final, but as we couldn’t firmly pinpoint who was behind the attacks we unfortunately had to remove everybody that was part of the 303. People who can confirm their lack of their involvement their accounts can be revived. 

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I made the call as one of the first and most integral players within 303. My name was Desmand and then Don_Escobar and I was tired of the bullshit admin interference and a general dislike for Spike (as shown by my funeral post in JonnyNoNames). I told Orangejuice to shoot him as "revenge" and he did.
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This is by far and away the most stupid decision ever made in my time in this game. 

You couldn't firmly pinpoint the people who caused the attacks? YOU? The admins. Wow. Swag. Totally. 

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I have logs for some, but I do not have all the voice logs for some of their team speak conversations when other orders were given.  The 303 works as a group and makes decisions as a group, so when orders are given to kill off multiple staff accounts out of revenge for Administration decisions, then we have to cast a wide net and snare them all until we can sort it all out.

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Ok, I simply don't get this. Someone shot someone. The dead person was someone you didn't want to be killed. So....DD the offender(and if you feel like it, revive your friends)? Pretty sure the 'order givers' wouldn't get another 'order follower' to do their killing for them,wouldn't you think?

Why would ze gawds be concerned about where the 'orders' came from and indulge in such a knee jerk reaction to 1(2?) Consig account(s) getting dropped? 

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You actually think the 303 makes all decisions together before doing anything? Hahaha. I made the back alley with the rules a long time ago, I paid Jeddy the money for the first 3 months of team speak. More often then not me and Ace would decide the direction the group was heading in and who we wanted in/out.

We just keep public perception assuming we work cohesively because that's good for business. Countless times people within the group have no idea what's happening until after it has occurred. Even now we have leaks and so people within 303 don't know everything about everything. There is always a heirachy in life. Certain threads are checked by other 303 members up the line to ensure its the right image we want or it gets changed.

Punishing everyone for a couple of peoples decisions is ridiculous and an obvious attempt at trying to rid the game of 303 so you can get more wars and more money and pay off that Achilles hit. Why hasn't Jeddy's new account been DDd too? He's 303. What about Technicals? Is that because they don't have the guns to control anyone? You surely can't pick and choose who gets DDd since apparently we make all decisions as a group... Even poor Mario that no one has seen for weeks apparently was involved. Hilarious.
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Sad to see Squishy and the admins loosing it like this. Not a pretty sight.

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I thought it was halloween not april fools. This is a pretty shitty trick..

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Ah the 303 on their knees at last. Good work admin;)
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The shitty tricks have been played by the 303 on MR itself. 

ps .. you  missed one Squishy.

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Nothing kills a game faster then when admins do the dumbest shit possible, like this. So let me get this straight you clowns killed OJ for the killing of the account. But now you (fucking genius you are btw) decide we just need to single out every single player that represents a group and just kill them off. I DONT NEED TO PROVE IF THEY HAD ANY KNOWLEDGE OR ACTIONS IN THE ACCOUNT KILLING. naaaaa id rather just kill off every single person and be done with it. Ok so skip that ludicrous logic, because thats what it is. How in the hell do you think any player that would after all this want to waste their time or money on your game that admins clearly use their power and influence to play. NOT want to kill your help-desk team now that you have shown your a waste of air? Hell personally id rank up just to shoot your help desk members. Because i know you will yet again do the dumbest move and bring them back to life, showing you do whatever you want when you want. Now im sure someone will make the comment "well its their game they can do whatever they want" Well guess what sweetheart there's things you do and you don't do when you try to run a business/game. Admins have broken those boundaries.   I still cant wrap my mind around the fact you morons just singled out an entire group just because they were a group.  Guilty until not proven so. nice job. 

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I would like to point out those that are not involved/spoken to Izzy are no longer dead...

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I wrestled with the idea of posting here. It is no secret that I don't like posting, and I certainly avoid drama as much as humanly possible. Do I really want to get involved in something that doesn't directly involve me? Do I want to risk the admin of the game that I love thinking I'm taking shots at him? Not really. But I am obviously not 303, and people are well aware I'm not a 303 supporter.

Do I have friends in the 303? Of course I do. It's a large group. There are also a couple that I think act stupid on a regular basis and talk down to people. I don't hate the entire 303 because I think a couple people act immaturely because you can't judge an entire group on a couple people's actions, regardless if they act as a group or not. So killing an entire group based on that blows my mind.

I understand that those that prove they were no part of this are being revived. My question is, if they weren't involved, how the heck would they have logs? Of course you can prove someone did something with logs, but not if they didn't. I've been in situations myself where I've been accused of something I had no part in and had no logs to really PROVE I didn't do it, because I literally wasn't any part of the decision making. I don't understand how they can prove their innocence.

When I woke up to find that PaulyD had died, I messaged him myself asking what happened. He stated that he did it of his own accord because he was done with the game. I have known this kid for years. If the 303 had made that order and then shot him for it, trust me when I say that he would have no problem bitching to me about it. PaulyD was not 303, but he was friends with some of them.

How far can we take those connections? I've known Amethyst for more than 10 years. If I were to go off my own accord and act like an idiot, would someone try to say she told me to do it? None of us are puppets. We make our own decisions, no one can force our hand to click that wack button. So I understand punishing who literally took the shot, though I feel that it's going to make some feel that those with HD accounts are invincible because they have to worry about these kinds of repercussions.

Please believe that I do not think what those have done to these individuals is fair, because it's not. I am simply playing devils advocate here.

As far as the logs that have been posted between the conversation you had with Mako, I don't even know what to say. While I know that Mako can be mouthy when he voices his opinions sometimes, and I've also seen you two argue, I've also seen that kid defend you more times that I can count. I've seen you say that he's a good guy even though you guys disagree. Posting the same line over and over, it just looks like bullying. Please trust that I have almost always defended your actions when you have DD'd someone, and in most cases my response is "well maybe they shouldn't have been acting like a twat to the owner of the game". Because although you should not be involved on such a level, you are HUMAN and you have emotions. Players can't just stomp all over you without there eventually being some kind of emotional outburst. I understand that, and that's why I do my best to avoid any drama, because god knows I don't want to deal with it. I also understand that you don't have the luxury of simply avoiding it. What I am saying is that you've got to be the bigger man. I know that emotions can get the best of anyone, but there is nothing wrong with stepping away from the computer until you have time to calm down, and that goes to everyone that plays this game.

This goes to everyone - We play this as an escape. God knows this game, the people I've met, you have all held me together when I've had my own world crumbling around me. And that's why it's so important that we don't abuse each other. Not everyone is going to agree, not everyone is going to like each other, but we are all people, not to mention adults, not just accounts.
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No one was missed. a bunch have been revived...

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yes, they were.

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I don't know what a 303 is. I don't know who is 303 or not 303. Nor do I care.

 

It seems, to me, that the simplest solution to prevent revenge against staff playing accounts, is simply to prevent staff from having a playing account.

 

You want to take a break from being a staff member and play? Cool. But your staff account is put on the shelf until your playing account dies. You want to get away from being a player? Cool. You get your staff account back but cannot create a playing account.

 

Otherwise, any time a staff playing account dies, the person that kills them could, conceivably, be DD'd for "revenge". It's absolutely asinine.

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Maybe its possible to have helpdesk users - without a separate name in blue on the top of the 60 second list above everyone else.

Nothing wrong with helping and very good of them but it could be done anonymously.
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To those saying having an admin/HD account means a player shouldn't be able to play, stop being an idiot. For how long have there been players who double as admin/HD and people have not been DD'd? 

And you want to know why? Because the people in power didn't shoot someone's player account simply because their friend was DD'd or because admin made a decision that they didn't agree with. Players of this game are supposed to be fucking adults not little kids crying every time a decision is made and trying to belittle and berate the decision makers in public forums. Rather you act like an adult and speak to those making the decisions in a private PM or MM and discuss it like adults. 

If you shoot DS for a decision Izzy made then you deserve to be DD'd, if you can explain that your shot on DS was because he disrespected you in the streets/IRC/war casualty then you won't be DD'd. How is that hard to understand? Cory_Chase you spent however long begging Izzy to revive your character, "almost in tears", because you know the actions were wrong. You tried to lie about your reasons for killing Izzy's playing character, the fact that your decision had a more than substantial element of revenge you deserved a DD be a man and take it on the chin. 

Goodfellas, stop hugging Cory's nuts kthxbai. 

Then the fact that the 303 stragglers are acting like Izzy is in the wrong, look at yourself and consider all the times Izzy has helped you and ask yourself if you're being fair to him. Consider everything that has transpired in its entirety. Had you been owner of a game, and witnessed what was transpiring what actions would you have taken? 303 were leaders of the game, they are expected to lead by example. You as Godfathers openly disrespect the admin, what kind of precedent does that set? Stop being unreasonable...

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So, let me get this straight, in a game based on the mafia, where you ought to be able to shoot someone for any reason, we now need to justify to Izzy WHY we took a shot at someone?

 

That's your definition of fair?

 

What's next, do I need to justify why I pp'd a HD's player account? Why I didn't invite them to an OC? Why I busted someone else out of jail and not them?

 

"I don't like them." used to be all the answer that was required when you shot someone. Now we have to prove a negative.

 

This precedent basically makes staff playing accounts unkillable. All it takes is the barest hint of a whisper that it was somehow motivated by "revenge", and now you're DD'd.  It's an absurd level of protection. 

 

It makes me sad to see that this is what the game has come to. I'm all for making sure that staff members aren't disrespected, or threatened to do things on their staff accounts. That makes sense.


But this? DDing people for playing the game as it was intended? This is gross. 

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Vodquila, are you intentionally being obtuse?

Just like the mafia in real life, you go around shooting Government/City Officials you will bring down the wrath of all hell. I think DDs for all the 303 shot callers, until they can prove that they're innocent is nowhere near what could of happened. Just like in real life there are RICO charges, if you're the head of the empire/shot caller then you call the shots and you receive the punishment

So, let me get this straight, in a game based on the mafia, where you ought to be able to shoot someone for any reason, we now need to justify to Izzy WHY we took a shot at someone?

That's your definition of fair?

YES! If you shoot at an admin's player account simply because another admin DD'd their friend, then attempt to shroud it in "ohh you were like uber IA too" clearly shows - you do not have the maturity to be in a leadership position. Admit what you've done when you've been caught, it would definitely help how people outside of your friendship group view you and how the person dealing with punishments may handle it. 

What's next, do I need to justify why I pp'd a HD's player account? Why I didn't invite them to an OC? Why I busted someone else out of jail and not them?

Stop being an idiot!

"I don't like them." used to be all the answer that was required when you shot someone. Now we have to prove a negative. 

As I said if DS, or another admin, was shot because he was not liked/disrespected someone/war casualty then the accounts in question would not be receiving DDs. BUT, we know that is not the case they were targeted because they're admins. Be it wholly or partly. 

This precedent basically makes staff playing accounts unkillable. All it takes is the barest hint of a whisper that it was somehow motivated by "revenge", and now you're DD'd.  It's an absurd level of protection. 

WRONG! This does not making staff playing accounts unkillable, it makes those who are going to throw tantrums have to face punishment. I'd say that is more than reasonable.  

But this? DDing people for playing the game as it was intended? This is gross. 

Please tell me how you would this as a game/business owner? Would you willingly let a group of individuals disrespect you in public? Would you let said individuals shoot the playing accounts of the individuals who are helping you, because they don't like the decision you made?

You wouldn't, so why do you expect Izzy to?

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