Statistics and figures from all over the net (and I mean really, just look around) show a sharp increase in "casual gaming." Facebook games, flash games, and mobile games are quickly becoming a dominant force in the gaming industry, and I think it would be prudent to look at MafiaReturns through that lens. I think a lot of the forces pushing the gaming market towards more casual games has undoubtedly some effects on the game (for better or worse):

• Layout - The layout of the game has become more receptive to playing on phones (i.e. wack page). The SDI has turned the site into its own "client" of sorts, with a host of features now being available (toasts, chat, etc). These features make the game feel less like a website and more like its own game client. This is a departure from "hardcore" text-based and forum-based games, and shows how accommodating we already are to the more modernized crowd. 
• Account Lengths - This has been briefly touched on elsewhere in OOC, but I'm referring here to policy and framework changes that seem to support lengthening accounts (for better or for worse). One of the most common trends in mobile gaming is either immortal player accounts (a la Clash of Clans where your stuff may be temporarily destroyed but never removed totally from the game) or extremely quick cycles where very little is lost when you "lose" and restart. I think removing WB death is perhaps the most obvious example, but I think the addition of districts has also contributed to making available the pathway of "no one has to die and lose their progress" (a prominent theme in casual gaming) by allowing a lot more players to reach the pinnacle of character progress (Godfather) without really competing for it.
• Second bit about account lengths - The availability of credits and the ability to carry wealth over between accounts is very casual. No one likes losing everything, so credits gives you the ability to save some of your monetary "progress" in the form of credits.
• Third bit about account lengths - Game owners love extending account age. It's basic economics; the more safe you think your investment (of time, effort, and sometimes money) is, the more likely you are to invest. The longer account ages represent a much more safe game, a game that overwhelmingly accommodates casual players. If the cycles were too short, no one would trust the game not to kill them.
• Account Stats - We have shifted from a text-based browser game to a numbers-based browser game. I say this satirically (as there's no such thing as a numbers-based game), but we have really come to focus much more on numbers than text. I think there has always been a focus on numbers in the realm of hitters (kill counts, gun strength, etc.), but I think it has become much more apparent since the introduction of "levels". We can now see precisely how far along in our account we are and we've shifted much of the rank-based functionality over to level-based. Other features include the Forum VIP Rankings that turn even the most text-based component of the game (forums) into a numbers game, availability of kills with MIA counts (I'll touch on this later), and "startup stats" have replaced the RP questions at registration to focus more heavily on the stats that your account will begin with.
• Account Progression - We have introduced TONS of ways of making money very easily. I think this rapidly speeds up the process of "Account progression," causing a very top-heavy environment simply because so many tools are available to users to rank up. Even though minimum times used to be challenges, many players now see min-timing Capo, Boss, and Consig as quite easy. Despite these ranks suddenly becoming much easier to attain, they were for some reason supposed to hold the same value (Made Man is a joke, let's be honest) as before.
• Account Progression contd - Racing for IAs (which used to also include using the hitlist) is too "hardcore" or "elitist" to lure in the casual gamer. As we shifted away from the difficulty of IA racing and focused more on rewarding lucky players and rich players (by allowing users to purchase kills), we have fundamentally welcomed casual gaming into perhaps the most "hardcore" process of the game: hitting. It makes sense, as conflict became less common (due to the factors contributing to account age), we needed more game-based features to entertain us where previously it was simply the other players who used to entertain us.
• Role Play & Forum Activity - This game used to be a forum. Now, a very small minority of players actually interact with the Forums, and I think it's because of this shift towards casual gaming. It's not "casual" to sit and read/write about RP problems. That is unequivocally reserved for hardcore members of the community, and there's nothing wrong with that. It's "casual" to message your friends and hang out with them on IRC. It's not "casual" to play a role each time you talk to someone, and that's why we've drifted away from it. It requires a level of commitment to play a role in a Mafia game; and that commitment isn't there. We'll commit time, effort, and money, but we'll do it in a casual way by focusing on the stats.

And this is where I make my point; what is our niche? We used to be a mafia game focused on role-play. Now, through no real "fault" of our own, we've drifted more towards casual gaming practices. We now draw entertainment from game features and OOC components (hanging out with friends) whereas previously the enjoyment came from role-playing and interacting with other characters. I think it would be wise to sit down and discuss what we want to be. Do we want to focus on casual gaming features, or do we want to return to RP? And I think once we really determine what we want the game to be, we can more purposefully move in that direction. Casual games aren't categorically better or worse than RP games, but I think while we're stuck in the middle we have two crowds that are equally confused and irritated.

Those who want RP back constantly ask for higher quality auths, more forum activity, and more RPing in general. And the silent majority simply ignore these sentiments because they prefer the casual gaming format instead of the role-playing. So what should we do?

What do we do? The only thing to do is get rid of the RPing aspect of the game and turn MR into the modernized casual gaming you spoke about. To the oldies it sounds like blasphemy. I know! I was once in your shoes too. But why keep trying to feed something that isn't hungry? Either that or leave it be, and the ones who enjoy RP will RP.

This is really the question I'm asking. I think if we "leave it be," we will continue to drift towards the casual gaming mechanisms and eventually become a casual game and eliminate any RP components. I think this threatens a number of players who want RP to play a role in how the game progresses. But since those players aren't really in charge, they're just an unheard minority.

I wouldn't be opposed to embracing casual gameplay. I titled this thread "Casual or RP?" because I want this to be a conscious choice by the community rather than just a passive drift. I have spoken at length with a couple players who would happily see the game shift in either direction, but I don't think we can really get the benefits of both worlds. True mafia RP is a rare niche that doesn't attract an enormous crowd, but the gameplay revolves around player decisions and interactions. Casual games are a very broad niche that could attract a lot of players (due to the reasons I listed above) but the gameplay will revolve around interacting with non-players and minimal interaction with others.

Perhaps there is a golden medium between the two? Where we can embrace casual gameplay and realism? I'm hesitant to say that, but I can be persuaded. If we could embrace a niche like that we'd be a very unique game in a market of copycats.

I thought it was obvious that this game was becoming more of a, as you put it, casual game? With every addition they add, it is more and more obvious that the admins are going for a game which can be played rather than acted out by the players, and the majority of the players are more than happy to continue pushing for these additions, be it through their inaction on the forums/game; or from literally asking for these changes to be made.

I don't believe they'll ever fully be able to get rid of the streets and acting out mobster characters, seeing as how that has been a staple since even before this game was conceived, but it is clearly going into a new era. Be this because that is what the admins want, or because the users have become complacent; but either way it is quite obvious that it is happening.

The fact that this thread will probably not go over two pages, and if it does, will be fueled by less than eight people, is just more proof to me that only a small minority actually cares.

Honestly is a long time since I have thought of this as a rp game as most of the threads that gain attention are the ones full of hate or spite it seems.  For many the game has become more a click game and to be competitive to a degree many have followed suit even with the allowances such as extra mia's, durdens etc to help anyone become a hitter.

For a long time the streets and business districts have slowed down with one business district at the beginning of my character i think only having two business owners alive.  I believe the game has become more casual to a degree but for many i think it still is not pulling people in.

I know of my jobs board out of the last 20 people to do work for me 11 have died, 5 remain uncrewed/ia and only 4 joined crews.  I honestly do not think is a perfect system or game for either groups as we see high ranks suicide or go idle as was with saint's crew with even consigs and bosses just dissapearing.

I think the challlenge is to see what the players want overall for the way forward of the game, as changing generations of gamers come with new needs as well as those with the nostalgia of the good old days.

Genocide, are you an idiot?

The fact that this thread will probably not go over two pages, and if it does, will be fueled by less than eight people, is just more proof to me that only a small minority actually cares.

You're absolutely right, but I'd rather not allow a silent majority to dictate the course of this game. If they don't care enough to speak up, then I have no need to listen. I would like to hear the opinions of some leaders on this, considering we have over 30 CLs and not a single one of them seems to have something to say about this.

Carlos_Hathcok You bring up a lot of good points. Forum activity, suicides, and poor retention rates have plagued this game for years. I suppose that's really why I want to get this discussion out in the open; is the poor forum activity because the game requires too much RP? Or because they want more RP? Are people suiciding because they're just bored? There's no way to accommodate for players who won't speak for themselves.

What I don't understand is how Crewleaders can get 60 units well before 4 months yet can barely string forum posts together even when they're expressly asked to do so. No one holds their feet to the fire; no one cares. So the people who follow in their footsteps will do the exact same thing.

Haven, Spunky, Genocide, Sydney, CristianoRonaldo, Amethyst, Cantillon, LF, Kyubey, FutureStealer

You are the leaders of this game. Can you offer a brief summary of how you feel on this subject? Do you want more RP? Do you want more casual features? There's no wrong answer; I just want to know where our top players feel on this subject.

Yeah, hi.

Sorry I haven't replied, it is an interesting topic really. I've read it over but I've been doing other things. (LoL, streams, other writing, etc blahblah boring shit).

The game in its current state is weird. Posting isn't a requirement for things as it once was, and you know why? It is the leaders faults. Not every leader is a poster. This game may be an RP game, but everything isn't revovled around posting.

I'd love more RP, I spoke with -Draven- the other day about trying to increase the amount of RP in the streets & the business district, so she created her Masquerade Ball thread, which has been a huge success. It is just a single thread though. Will it change things? Unlikely.

The leaders, and members, have to teach the new players, and even some older, that RP should be used more often.

The game is quite casual as it is. This is an online text game however and there isn't a MASSIVE demand for them anymore.. So I think we should take what new players we can get, some may be casual, or some may be fantastic roleplayers from another website.

Thank you for the discussion, taylor.

For me I think the beauty of this game is the ability to choose what you really want to get out of it.  I, myself, tend to play this game to pass time at work and when I'm bored.  I can RP, and do so occasionally, but honestly generally I don't feel like taking the time to do so.

So, for me, I don't really care if there is more RP.

However, I really like that the game gives the ability to foster RP if you want. In my own crew I generally try to reward RP activity as well as "casual" activity.

I would not, however, like to see a need to RP introduced into the game mechanics.  I've personally seen this done (at the time I was pushing it heavily as pretty much only playing games to RP) in another game and it alienates a large portion of the game.  I prefer a decent number of people in game over a ton of RP.

I came to this game for the RP, the people of the streets have made allot of mockery of what's out there, attacking ppls spelling, grammar and styles with no intention of joining the RP. Less and less do we see proper RP threads that arnt auth threads, and even those get attacked often enough.

So, while I enjoy RP, I tend to keep my RP to messaging, character play and choices, and crew threads.

If you'd like to heard my accounts back story some time, I'll tell it, or, if you'd like an example of my work, I can provide several, this account alone ive written a few, but in the past I've had many others.

My general view of RP is that more people should be doing it and less people should be critiquing it. But, like me, allot of people I know who used to run wild with rpg's refuse to post here anymore because several people attacked them instead of being gentle and polite, laughing in the streets instead of sending messages. Or simply not saying anything unless you have something nice to say. Silence says as much in a bit nicer tone.

Certainly RP is to be encouraged, but often I see RP threads with poor spelling, poor grammar and bad punctuation. I am no exception to that, I guess we all do that sometimes. But some RP's on here, posted by new thugs or gangsters are just quite bad. 

I've seen a lot of new RP thread pop up in the last few weeks though, so that's nice!

I always been one not shy to post but tend to stick to what I feel confident in. As already mentioned there are not so 'nice' folk out there who will try 'bully' a little bit at those whose spellings and grammars may not be up to top notch. I know with my own self having dyslexia a bit it can be rather daunting when you click 'submit' to a post to find what you thought you wrote has not came out as so. 

I will say this also that not everyone want to be out in the limelight despite their positions. But it don't mean that behind the scenes they are not doing their job with their members or educating etc etc. As said I do come out when it is needed to and i do occasional join in other threads too .. in a role playing way. My style of place is often in a role play thought also. 

Maybe if people were given more confidence to not have to be 'perfect' in what they put out there or people kind enough to help - you would find more willing to try. 

End of day when it comes to playing this game... one of the biggest plus signs is that is a variety of ways of which a person can apply themselves. 

I am absolutely blown away by the response from the leaders. I had a hunch this would go completely unnoticed, and you proved me hella wrong. I greatly appreciate these, because I think the thoughts contained in just these five posts have very well represented a majority of players. I don't want this to just be a "call for RP," like so many OOC threads before this, because as FutureStealer mentioned there are a lot of players enjoying this game without a tremendous focus on RP. You're starting to convince me that we can effectively split our focus on both casual players and hardcore RPers.

Amethyst, your post really opened my eyes about something. For years, I've been puzzled why some people don't "care" (for lack of a better word) about leadership or want to be on top. And I think you really answered it; some people simply play this game for the underlying features; the components of the game that become available with regime stability. And what I had previously not recognized was that while there's merits in pursuing power and leadership, there's also gains from the more passive activities.

I thank you who have responded already, and I do hope to see more stuff from the other leaders. This isn't a call to action; I'm not trying to stir anyone into establishing new rules for RPing or manufacture more casual features. This is a call to discussion, and so far it has been answered quite well. I would also stage this question: Where should we go from here? Is there a way of both embracing the casual gameplay while still not betraying our roots?

I would like to make this suggestion: should leaders be more focused on RPing a character than their members? If so, is there really an enforceable "standard" we can make for that? I fear that many leaders aren't playing a role at all but merely making in-game decisions based on how the player (the OOC person) would respond to things. This is another clear sign of casual gameplay. Is it something we should encourage? Sorry to put up so many questions, I just think it would be very fruitful to flesh out these thoughts and get an idea of where people stand on these points. Because I think these questions hold a lot of weight for in-game decisions like recruiting, promotions, and auths. We typically recruit like players, not mobsters. We promote people like players, not members of the mafia. And we auth people regardless of how great a leader they may be.

If this is what we want as a community, we should embrace it and promote it. If it's not, then we should put up policies against it. I think we could slowly but very surely make the differences we wanted to see, if people were willing to put in the work.

Enforcing any one style of leadership is silly, you have leaders who money whore more then anything else, then people who RP in the cafe's and avoid the streets more then anything else... and for every leader type, there are people who prefer that treatment.

I do however feel that RP needs to be encouraged in the streets, people need to show a little respect for those who put effort into typing up a story and instead of turning it into an joke, need to either be as serious as the poster was, or move on. everyone misses typos, so people dont need to make a big deal of it. -.-

Haven, I've not witnessed people disrespecting others RP/writing publicly. Yet, I wholeheartedly agree that this unwarranted behaviour should have no place in this game. Those who try to humiliate or poke fun at other players who are trying their utmost and enjoying their writing, regardless of quality - should not be tolerated. Personally, if I had the authority I would come down on these individuals like a ton of bricks. As you are a Godfather in the game, you are in prime position to make a stand against this unnecessary behaviour and potentially eradicate it. I'm sure the masses would be on your side.

I think the game's developers have embraced many of the things necessary to ensure MR remains current and adaptable to the diverse medium through which technology has enabled people to play. I would imagine a lot of people are in the same boat as I am, that time spent playing the game is now done as much on a mobile phone as it is physically sitting down in front of a computer. The natural consequence of this is that when I am on my phone, I might read the odd thread and respond quickly to a mail, but I'm not going to spend the extra time whilst on that device to actually produce a post of any actual significance and a result, some forms of actually playing a character are diminished.

I also think we need to determine what we mean by "RP". In my case, that is acting like I am a member of an organised crime family from the Bronx, so my character will respond to things others have said and done in the way I imagine someone in my position would do. For example, I have a business in NY which is a "butty bar", but it is merely a front for me to conduct my meetings (or it will be when LilJimmy's corpse is wheeled out of there), and I don't actually get down and dirty wiping the tables or serving the food, because I'm a Capo and that isn't my job. I have people on the payroll for that kind of shit. But the common misconception is that the business district is a time for fantasy and pretending we are owner operators of legitimate small time businesses, which invariably then fizzle out because it isn't particularly entertaining to serve pizza all day, when in actual fact there is so much more that could be done if people put their minds to it and actually played a role. 

To this end, if we are considering more or less "RP", I've always and will always believe the game to be significantly improved if people actually acted how their character would act, rather than how they themselves as a person playing a mafia game in 2014 would act. That is the kind of roleplay I would see encouraged, rather than say, 'Masquerade Ball', which whilst I'm sure appeals to some (and I don't seek to knock the doubtless effort that went into it) isn't something I would ever imagine my character to participate in and I therefore find disengaging. I'm sure other people do too. Where as, if there was a score being taken down from the joint of a connected guy in DT, which required a sit down between a couple of captains to keep the peace; that I would be highly interested in because it provides a scenario where I can actually express my character. 

I love role playing but unfortunately I don't always have the time to do it, I would like to see more role playing but I think it is difficult, I would say most of the role playing is done in the business districts. So when you decide on posting in LV for example you post and wait and wait then you forget and by the time you remember you are flying off elsewhere, so in my opinion role play gets lost because not everyone checks the business districts or that city hasn't got that many active players.

The streets have the occasional RP but in truth I steer away from them because they don't know what direction the original poster wants to go in, this is wrong of me I know. As I wasn't around the time of it being more forum based I can't comment.

I have heard a lot of people avoid the streets because the fear of being ridiculed for grammar and spelling, I think it should be down to us leaders to stop people behaving like this to encourage people onto the streets especially when you think that English isn't everyone's first language.

I think Barry has it spot on though we should behave as we would in the Mafia in the 1920s/30s rather than playing a mafia game.