It was a cold November morning in The Loop, Chicago.  Kelly stepped out of the HQ into the Autumn sunshine and approached the small yet slowly growing crowd gathered in the street.  With a nod of approval and a fleeting glance out over her assembled audience, she began to speak....

A leader street presence....is it needed?

I was sat mulling over this tonight, with a handful of bottles of ale I brewed for myself. I got thinking to myself; No mean feat I assure you, ask Barry or Aliens, they will back me up on this......

Right Barry?

Right Aliens?

Kelly nods at the acknowledgements from around her (technically she was around Barry, but this dilemma could be discussed at a later date)

Good, so, back to the point, a street presence for those of us blessed to be deemed worthy to run a crew of schlubs, because lets face it, that's what they are until they have earned our trust and respect right?

I would motion that no, it is not needed.  We have been graced these fine suits for a reason.

Gives a twirl showing off the pleats in the, at first glance, dour looking grey outfit......

It's OK guys, the pavement needs a good clean, public services in this place need an overhaul, maybe I will have a few words with some people, if you catch my drift?  

You can quit drooling at me whenever you are ready though, don't want the sewers getting backed up you know....I also don't want to attract the attentions of that philanderer Batiatus, I have heard he will try to cajole me into all kinds of unspeakable acts!

Anyway, forgive me, I am a little ditzy!  

A street presence, for a leader, while eliciting a favourable appraisal when looking in from the outside, is not really required, don't you think?  I have two hands I can trust and have a crew to organise and educate.  Is it not perfectly acceptable that I prioritise myself on developing members in their chosen niche over maintaining a healthy, verbose street presence?  Family is EVERYTHING after all, you know?

Had I had my way, I would have enlisted the help of Maria in a spokesman role, she has the gift of the gab and can only be described as an asset to whoever she serves under.  Her mouth can run but all she needs is a strong hand to keep her in check, trust me, when you don't have a man between you, you find other ways to elicit favourable public behaviour.  Again, speak to Batiatus about this, you can learn a lot about "lady behaviour" from him.  

Sadly though guys, Cherokee saw the potential before I could make my move, and snatched her from my grasp.  Upsetting, as had I managed to poach her services and bring her back to The Loop, I would not have to be here now speaking with you, I could be in the HQ sipping bourbon and watching her go about her business how she knows best, sad times eh?  Luckily I have TinyTina, which more than counters the disappointment of no Maria working under me!

On a more positive note though, she acquired her own voice, she is calling the shots for herself; This is an equally admirable accomplishment, Congratulations Maria on your shiny, new HQ in Chicago, the mother of cities!

So, to sum up,

I am not afraid of the streets and anyone that knows my bloodline will know that I have always pushed for people to come to this, and the other fine cities concrete and speak.  I have always encouraged people to air their points and opinions but I am genuinely intrigued, how do you folks feel about the whole leaders must be vocal train of thought?  Should we really be measuring ourselves on how much we speak to those people outside that which is most important to us, our families?

Pulls a smoke from her pocket and lighting it glances fleetingly back over the gathered crowd before retiring back into the headquarters.....

(I consider this to be an OOC problem; leaders literally have no capacity for playing a role and therefore have no capacity for broadcasting the actions/words of their character. They avoid the Streets simply out of ineptitude in regards to assuming the role of a Mafia Boss. Those who DO approach the Streets tend to do so almost entirely out of character; broadcasting the thoughts and words of the player rather than the character. Because I want this discussion to stay in the Streets, I will translate these thoughts into more in-character terms.)

It is absolutely necessary, for a couple reasons.

One, in times like these where "actions" are few and far-between, there is absolutely nothing differentiating between silent leaders apart from the tattoos they wear or the name of their crew. If you don't do anything and you don't say anything, then what's the point in even having the HQ? What's worse is that these leaders offer no indications about what kind of a leader they are; which makes recruiting essentially a life-long gamble for new members. If no one knows who the fuck you are, why should anyone work for you? Oh, you have a particularly well-written flyer you hand out to new people off the boat? Good for you, but that puts you closer to a used car salesman than a leader.

Second, I'm tired of this "you don't have to be vocal to be a leader." Yes, you do. The only difference between a silent crewleader and a common mobster is the bold suit and the horde of BGs. Being a crewleader is supposed to demand respect; but why should I respect someone simply because their Godfather authed you? Especially if you're authed by a silent Godfather? If you don't ever leave your HQ, I'm not going to respect you. If there's anyone who should be out in these Streets discussing things it should be crewleaders. Otherwise, why should anyone care that you even got an HQ?

Third, and this builds out of #2; who are you? Crewleaders are supposed to be the greatest men and women of our time; but they spend so very little really offering anything about them. For those who say "some like to stay silent and not reveal things about themselves," shut up. Just shut the fuck up. This is not a world for silence. This is a world that hinges on words; that's built on words; that changes WITH WORDS. When you enter into the greatest accomplishments this world can offer and stay silent, you show every mobster in every city that words don't matter, that the never mattered, and that you and everyone else would be better off simply by ignoring them. And that is the real offense a silent crewleader commits, an offense against the very nature of our world.

Sorry to make things so inflammatory, but you guys need to wake up and realize how damaging our piss-poor CL standards are.

Street presence by leaders has been an issue for quite a long time now. As it stands, most of the leaders are voiceless in terms of public speaking. I realized though when thinking about this myself that, oh well, most leaders don't really have the time for us little folk. They should, at least for their crew, have time, but out in the streets, that's something else. Though I do believe leaders should have a good, clear, and strong voice, I don't really expect it of them anymore.

On train of thought that I went on was that leaders, especially godfathers, should partake in actual city/district meetings. Meetings these days are only really for upperstructure if they even happen at all. I recall hearing about a nice public execution my ancestor was killed in, during the Roman era, but that was absolutely beautiful. A coffee shop filled with a good chunk of this world's game population, and someone actually giving an agenda. Something that epic has not been seen in far too long. 

So, I went with that idea, but it didn't really catch on and then I stopped caring kinda. It would seem they aren't interested. It's the whole silent collosus thing and whatever. It's a shame really, but I don't really think it just comes down to leaders. Members do not speak enough in public. The direction speech has gone is really poor for our society. With less people speaking, more people are even afraid to attempt it, but they shouldn't be. Yes, the streets can be dangerous, and one has to think before they speak, but it's a skill that everyone needs to have. Otherwise, they should just stay in a bottling plant factory for our booze, out of sight, but what's the point in that? 

Leaders set an example for sure though, and perhaps that's why their members don't talk as much, though I don't think that's really the major reason. It still would be nice to see some effort, especially effort in making the community closer to each other. These days, I feel that generally people are too distant, and this is something new here. Back in the day, more people talked with each other, but I think a lot of it is being kept to private conversations and crew hangouts instead of public venues. 

I think Spike you are understating when you say ‘quite’ a long time.

I believe people have ALWAYS thought that most leaders do not have enough street presence going back more generations that I could count. It has been argued about for years and this question has been asked in different ways and not just about leaders but all Mafioso.

Just a few examples:

Here

Here

Here

and Here

I honestly believe it goes back much further than these instances too, It can be pointed to, worked on, it can change for a while when a fantastic speaker becomes a leader, but mainly things stay the same. Leaders do not come to the street to speak to the masses unless it’s announcement or to address certain issues.

So in answer to the original question, no it’s not needed at all, one only has to look at the history of this thing of ours to see that to be true.

Is a leaders street presence needed? No. Sure it's nice, but is not by any means required. I applaud the leaders that can manage their members and relations with those around them while maintaining a solid street presence. Anybody who has run a crew, be that firsthand experience or family journals knows it is no easy task, you don't exactly have a lot of free time on your hands. 

I am however a firm believer in street presence for rank, and especially for that bold suit. But what business does a Godfather or Don have in the streets with the bums and hoodlums?

For some people is good that they talk, and for others is good that they don't talk.

It is sad though to speak when you shouldn't, or to be silent when you shouldn't.

Street presence don't mean any more what it used to mean.

And unless the people don't try to change this, it won't.

Is street presence more important than the amount of bodies you have on your gun?

The little grey alien stepped from the shadows where his great Don was speaking to the masses. He twiddled his long silky fingers quietly as he listened intently on all that was said before him.

Walking through the crowd most didn't even notice him as he had the stature of a child. At a mere 3 foot tall he was quite short with a very large head and big round eyes. He coughed quietly and waited for the speaker before him to step down from the soap box he was standing on. Ushering him away he smiled quietly, and grabbed two more boxes to stand on so the crowd before him could see his face as he spoke.

Stacking two boxes on the one that was already there he climbed the three of them with swift agility. Standing at the top, he plucked a cigarette from his pack and pressed it between his lips. Striking a match he ignited the tip and inhaled a blue fog of noxious smoke before beginning his oral argument. Like one of those fancy lawyers he had on the pay roll to keep the heat off his ass.

Generations ago, it used to be so. A leader had to step into the streets or he was shot for his inability to communicate with those surrounding him. Now, we don't have the same type of leadership. 

The little Alien paused for a moment before continuing, putting his thoughts together quietly to himself.

That is not necessarily a bad thing either. At the end of the day I myself have trouble coming up with new and creative idea's for speaking around here. What hasn't been discussed to death? What hasn't been brought up time and time again? Alas the mundaness of it bores me to death these days.

That being said, I don't think it is a requirement anymore. We don't make the rules, the gods we bow to everyday and the Godfather's that give the orders do. If they say it's required, its required. Who are we to question a Godfather? Who are we to question the gods? We are but simple minded mafioso trying to exist in a world filled with greed and power. It is not our choice when to live or die, nor to ask the reason why.

The little Alien stepped down from the boxes and went about his merry way. Snatching a purse from an old lady before stepping into a Post Office to make a forced withdrawal.

Curtis listened to the discussion and nodded as taylor, Spike and others raised strong points. He took a few steps forward and smiled at the grey alien as he stood next to him and addressed the group.

"I have to agree with the old school view. I firmly believe people should show street presence to warrant leadership. Leadership is juts that, Leading. You demonstrate and embody all facets of the mobsters you are trying to develop. I remember the days many years ago where leaders were routinely shot for not maintaining a street presence. I would wholeheartedly embrace a return to those days. As RefreshingMonkey said, it takes a great deal of effort to run a family and maintain a solid street presence but leadership is hard work. Being a CL is a massive undertaking and shouldn't be taken by those without the ambition, appetite and work rate to pull it off. Sadly, these days it seems pretty much any fuckwit without a cell in their heads can get the role. Too many have.

Having said that. It isn't all black and white. Although a leader should demonstrate their capacity for street speech, there can be a balance. Just as not all members are outgoing and articulate, many have valuable attributes to the family and their lack of street presence is accepted for the things they contribute internally to the family. That comes down to balance and personnel management. Take my own leader for example; Don Whatsername is a highly capable street speaker and does venture into the streets, that much is clear. However she has quite a few prolific speakers working under her that more than maintain our family's presence. This allows her more time to focus on internal family matters. It doesn't mean she ignores the streets at all, it just means she manages our members and the overall family presence. I know she listens to most street conversations with great interest. If we all spoke out here less, she would get involved more. Clear thoughtful management."

This is one of the timeless debates that has raged since the earliest days of this thing of ours. The reason for this isn't because we're all a bit thick and haven't figured out what the answer is, though looking at the likes of TheNewGuy standing there scratching himself that would be an understandable conclusion, it's because it's a subjective matter where everyone has their own views and opinions on the matter. 

For some street presence and rhetoric skills are of vital importance. For others, they couldn't care less about them. That doesn't make one side right and one side wrong, it just means that people have to find the path that's right for them and find a leader that has the skills and talents that they feel a strong leader should possess. 

Having said all that, are we wasting our time discussing this?

Of course not. Without discussing a matter like this, how can we ever hope for things to change. For someone like me, who would love to see more importance be put on a leaders ability to communicate and articulate, I'll take every opportunity to put forward my reasoning in the hopes it will inspire someone to reaching for a soapbox for the first time or help change a point of view to coincide with mine. It's not that I'm arrogant enough to believe what I think is right and what you think is wrong, it's simply a case that I have reasons why I believe what I do and I will share those with others in the hopes of altering their opinions. It's just as possible that someone could put forward an argument that could alter my beliefs, but after generations and generations my bloodline has never seen a valid argument for it not being an important skill for a leader OF MINE to have. 

Is it important to have a street presence so they can entertain the masses and compose perfect prose? Of course not. That's absolute bullshit that's of no benefit to anyone. 

What is important is an ability to speak when it's needed. That doesn't mean that a leader must be out daily cracking jokes or performing a little juggling act, it means that when it's required they can hit the streets with the intelligence and competence required of a true leader.  

If someone has lived their entire lives in solitude, quietly working away for their family and doing as requested at every turn without ever opening their mouth in public, how can we know they'd make a good leader? How do we know that when they're required to interact with the other leaders across our great nation, or even just others within their fine city, they aren't completely incompetent, unable to string a coherent sentence together and not going to put the lives of every member of their family at risk due to their own incompetence?

Simple answer, we don't. It doesn't mean they'll make a bad boss, it doesn't mean they won't a great boss, it means that we won't know their competence, intelligence or ability at all. It means they have no profile and no authority outside of those that have come into personal contact with them. It means that they'll struggle to inspire the masses, as they simply won't have enough contact with them. They may attempt to stay in touch with many people on a personal level, but even utilising all of the coffee shops and messaging services we have available they still can't spread a message as wide as a street speech would. 

This world of ours is far more about politics and political manoeuvring than it ever is about drugs and guns. So many times wars can either be averted or else won by the words of a strong leader. Whether it's inspiring their own troops, demoralising their opponents or earning the respect of the neutrals enough to swing the balance in their favour. A powerful speaker has the ability to literally and directly change the course of war. This doesn't mean that someone who has never once set foot on our streets couldn't achieve this on their virginal visit, however it's far less likely to be achieved by someone who has never dared to set foot on the streets than by someone who has shown their competence in the arena on numerous occasions in the past. 

So think to yourself, what qualities do you look for in a leader? Then ask yourself if a competent street presence is a good signal for that trait?

Intelligent? Check.

Clever? Check. Subtle difference here, you can have all the intelligence in the world without ever having the wit to apply it.

Strong? Check. If you want a leader who'll stand up for you and your family through thick and thin, the street is the first place you'll see it.

Strategic? Check. Sometimes it's not all about what you say on the streets, it's far more about how you say it. Having a mind to understand the consequences of what is said and the manner in which it is framed is without question the single greatest indication of how a boss will manage to guide a family through a war. 

Must a leader absolutely have each of these qualities along with many others? No. Of course not. At any given time I'd imagine only a small number actually do.

Must a leader have them in order to have my respect, my loyalty and be willing for me to lay down my life for them? That, I can assure you, gets a hell yes. Luckily, if you look for 'em, you can find leaders like that.  

Vincenzo goes about his daily business quietly and effectively as he always does when he comes across the age old arguement about street presence, having always believed as a leader you must have some sort of presence Vincenzo stops and listens to the points being made and slowly makes his way towards the front of the crowd that has started to gather.

Listening to Santanta's input Vincenzo's mind starts to wander for he had come across the bloodline of a man his ancestors had always looked up to a man who thought nothing of leveling a city back in the day to protect his family a man of honour a man of integrity and above all a man who led by example.

Quite often Vincenzo would read through his great great grandfathers journals always keen to learn the old ways, but the stories he enjoyed reading the most were of a time long since lost, a time when the streets were a buzz with respectful mobsters out in force always discussing how to move their crews on to bigger and better things, a time when you had some of the strongest leadership our world has ever seen, a time when leaders would put their family above all else even if that meant fighting to the death for what you believed in.

Once all the dust had settled after the great wars of old those lucky enough to survive would then come back out to these very streets and lay it all out detail by detail nothing was spared, my great great grandfather always said it was the victors who wrote the history of events and today that is all we have to go on as to what life was really like, Vincenzo's favoured stories though were of a man called Deimne and his Flying Monkeys who operated out of New York, now a few of Vincenzo's ancestors died at their hands back in the day but none of the family line ever whinged about it and got on with business as usual for this is the way of life they chose and they stood side by side with their family even to the point of death, but one thing you could bet money on was within an hour of the battle ending there would be a detailed account of everything that had gone on here in the streets for the masses to chew over.

Vincenzo breaks his line of thought and steps closer to the front and waits for the last speaker to finish his last sentence, he then clears his throat and puts forward his own input.

"Having listened to everything that has been said, I would have to say that if you want to lead and not everyone does, but if you want to be a leader and want to be heard and want the respect of your peers then for me a reasonable street presence is a must" pausing for a few seconds looking around at the gathered crowd Vincenzo continues "Let me give you an example if i wasn't standing here now talking to you, would you even know who i was?" once again Vincenzo looks around the crowd watching as some shake their heads, "Exactly, how can a man be a leader of men if the men dont know who the hell he is, I ask you this would you lay your life on the line for someone you do not know or for someone you know all about?, I know what my answer to the question is, the point is do you?".

Whilst i understand we have people of varying levels of intellect and even some that are a bit wary of coming out to these streets for what ever reasoning my advice has and always will be that of, If you have something to say and want to be heard then provided it's in a respectful manner say what you mean and mean what you say as truth be told YOUR WORDS ARE ALL WE HAVE TO GO BY.

Meh, most mongs these days would say no it isn't. Mainly because they are too lazy to put any thought or effort into expressing an opinion.

Alas, this is the breed of mobster we see these days. It is very rare we see a fresh face that will actively come out to the street and make themselves be heard. Part of this is due to the fact that many leaders just don't see the point in coming to the streets these days, especially the newer family lines. If a leader isn't coming out to the street to express their opinions, then what chance do we have of their guys doing so?

In this day and age the majority of leaders seem content with staring at their reflection in the mirror and admiring the bold suit they wear. They are oblivious to what being present on the streets can do for them. It's too easy to stand behind the excuse that you only need to lead your family or you can have a presence on irc avenue. If you want to be anything other than just another pissant who became bold then you better make sure you do more than stand around with your dick in your hand within your own HQ.

For most of us, this thing of ours is all about leaving a legacy and I think this kind of ambition is what many leaders lack these days. There are far too many leaders who are happy being nothing more than another statistic, another no mark cunt who never made it to the history books. All of those legendary mobsters that we have heard about or read about in journals, I am certain they all left their mark here in the streets. They knew this thing of ours was about more than just controlling what happened within their own HQ or having a chit chat on irc avenue.

It's a shame that this new breed of mobster that has entered our world cares so little for the streets and ranks, too often do I see some no marks calling out a Made Man or even crew leaders. I fear that unless drastic changes are made we will see the complete demise of the streets.

Don Louis-Man approaches the soapbox, puts out his freshly lit cigar against the side of the side of the box before stepping up and clearing his throat. "Eh em...."

Street presence for a crew-leader.... Is it important? Yes. Is it necessary? Obviously not. Although I feel that a true leader will never surpass being just a mere leader unless this person has the total package. Much like Satanta described, a true hero of the masses will have to have the qualities he described, and will never be considered a legend unless he/she is able to project their opinions to the masses. If the people don't know who you are and what you stand for then they have no image of you. So how can you be great or legendary to them, and why would they be a fan or want to jump on your wagon?

I feel that many of the young bloodline's stay out of the streets for fear of being ridiculed. So many of them stick to themselves to avoid conflict especially considering many of them may not quite get the whole picture of this thing of ours, especially when they first reach these shores. I'm sure many of them are more than capable of expressing themselves but they just don't feel confident. As a new person to this world you are asked to respect everybody, and it's hard to tell as a new person the difference between having a differentiating opinion and disrespect. Often in life, having a differentiating opinion can be misconstrued for disrespect.

I for instance was one of these people who didn't quite know who I was on day 11 much less capable of providing my opinion on matters that i knew nothing about. I didn't care to voice my opinion much because I was so busy refining who I wanted to be before I would dare stand on a soapbox. 

So I sat day in and day out watching and listening to everybody. From my observations the Streets seemed to be for 2 kinds of people. The first kind of person was the great people, who spoke their opinions, kept the balance of this thing in check and offered knowledge to the masses. And for another kind of person, somebody who want's to whine, moan and bitch and create problems or just generally be a "Pissant" as Don Achilles would refer to them. As a new bloodline myself I wasn't ready to be either of those two, I couldn't be a great leader because a person can't be great until they understand the whole picture. How can a new person capture an audience with their words and opinion's when they don't know who they are yet and where they stand on each subject? Surely I didn't want to be the 2nd kind of person that come's to these streets to either cry and moan or to speak about things I knew nothing about. Well it's obvious why I wouldn't want to be caught dead as the second kind of person, there is no bitch in my rather fresh bloodline and nobody wants to appear foolish due to lack of understanding.

To sum it all up, I think when a fresh bloodline is trying to become great and leave there own legacy they have to take it one step at a time. You have to learn to walk before you can run. The streets is a full fledged sprint and maybe there are more young bloods like me out there that are choosing to walk and jog and train their legs before they will take full flight and decide to go for a sprint in the streets.

Well at least i hope so........ Maybe this the talks of today will inspire more young blood's to start working on their street presence and knowledge and we will see them crawl out of their cocoons at some point.  Remember it is our job's as CL's, RHM's, LHM's, and Made+ to lead and coach our young people so that they feel confident and knowledgeable. Otherwise I wouldn't expect to see many young stars emerging out of thin air.