After hearing my late father, DontTellIzzyImTeQ speak the other day it triggered a line of questioning in my head.

What do you view as a 'deplorable action' in this world considering we are all thieves and murderers? Also, how much does it matter if the person involved is closely linked to you? Does your attitude change when the action perpetrated was to yourself? 

I ask because my own lineage has experienced many reactions to their actions and in my humble opinion it can take a hell of a lot to get you on someone's 'shit list' if the person in question is willing to explain and stick by their actions rather than simply apologies. There are times when death and destruction has been caused, but due to my bloods stark honesty and belief in their own actions there has definitely been undue leniency given. One particular bloodline (who shall rename nameless) springs to mind for me as there were so many generations of my family that caused SO many problems for them and still every time they accepted the perp's son into their family.

However on the flip side to that, we have been on a person's 'shit list' purely by association or public persona. Hatred has spilled into inbox's or via the coffee-shops without ever speaking to a member of my blood (which a lot of people find surprisingly pleasant after expecting Captain Cuntface) in a one-on-one conversation.

I really struggle to think of an action deplorable enough that my blood wouldn't eventually forgive someone for, as it'd be slightly hypocritical of me considering all my blood has been forgiven for. So I'm curious as to other people's views as I know there are a lot of grudges/bad blood still held here. Not only towards myself but many, many others and some have been held over an extraordinary amount of time.

Although not quite on the level of yourself, I myself currently face the "deplorable actions" of my forefathers. There are only a select few who still hold these things over my head. Most have moved on and have their focus on the future. But there are a select few who will never trust my blood again, who probably wouldn't even speak to me based on something a man I'm related to did years and years ago. So I kind of understand where you're coming from.

On the flip side, my bloodline has always had a strong track record of not holding people's heritage against people. There have been certain exceptions of course, but the vast majority of the time, I have always tried to give people the benefit of the doubt. Giving someone a second chance can do one of two things in my eyes.

A. They end up a prick and betray you

B. They appreciate you for the opportunity and become one of your best and most loyal men.

I guess, overall, it depends on the actual sins that someone is known for. I don't think it fair to hold something against someone based solely on their reputation, or what you've heard about their past. But it's much harder to look past something if you were the one they wronged.

I'm a fan of letting the sins of the father be washed away by the birth of the son. Each time you step foot back on these shores, you're given a clean slate so to speak by me. Does that mean I've forgotten what you may or may not have done in the past? Absolutely not, but I will not hold it against you, or attempt to use it to harm you. You'll forge your own way, and if you start to screw up again, then so be it. Eventually you'll find yourself six feet under.

As we stand here today, I can tell you I hold no grudges against anyway within our world. There are a few folks who have committed acts that I'm not fond of, but I'm holding no grudges.

IvanRomanov listens to the young Goku before he gives his own opinion.

I guess, overall, it depends on the actual sins that someone is known for. I don't think it fair to hold something against someone based solely on their reputation, or what you've heard about their past. But it's much harder to look past something if you were the one they wronged.

You know the saying history is written by the victors? I think in some cases that certain bloodlines are already at a disadvantage because of something a potential sponsor has heard, or maybe even the leader themselves. I for one am like Goku on giving bloodlines a chance. I do not care if you're mother's mother or grandfather's great grandfather was a rogue on a treacherous leader or anything of the kind. All I care is if you put forth something towards the better good of the family.

I'm a fan of letting the sins of the father be washed away by the birth of the son. Each time you step foot back on these shores, you're given a clean slate so to speak by me. Does that mean I've forgotten what you may or may not have done in the past? Absolutely not, but I will not hold it against you, or attempt to use it to harm you. You'll forge your own way, and if you start to screw up again, then so be it. Eventually you'll find yourself six feet under.

I think Ragnarok said it better than I could.  

clutch listens and nods at some aspects that have been brought up and clears his throat.

First I'd like to say thank you for bring this topic up. Its one that most bloodlines here can identify with on a business and personal level of some sort. This should be a nice topic to hear all the view points so I'll try to shed my thoughts on it and not hold everyone up as I am sure others would like to share their thoughts.

As easy as everyone says it is to not hold the sins of ones father against their son. It always happens. My blood line has seen some be able to buck the trend and actually not hold it to them. But normally one of two things happen.

  1- That history is repaeated and the son acts just like the father

  2- They truely do not act like their father and it looks wise and the leader or sponsor gets a coup for their family/district.

But its a tough line to figure out. Its a almost damned if you do damned if you don't. I personally do not mind unless the bloodline always does these things time and time again. When that is all the bloodline can do then I see no reason to give it the time of day to have it happen to you or those close to you.

clutch takes a deep drag and has one final thought.

As for the 'deplorable action', I think it also depends on where and how you were affected. If it was in the old country or coffee-shops it could carry much more feels then just the mafia side of things that we have going on. Also the amount of trust that was broke will always carry much weight. The more it affects yourself and on how much of a personal level play a huge part. Just my thoughts. I look forward to hearing others speak on this. Thank for bring this topic up.

nods his cap and takes a spot on the wall near the local bar.

Upon hearing the man Father_TeQ ask his question to the population in general it seemed, Chun_Li chewed on it a bit as it was something she had once or twice given a passing thought to..

I've wondered about that myself after hearing the outcries in various cities on subjects that in one way or another touched on this. A lot of what we do is deplorable, and when we're able to do good deeds, its more often than not made possible because of some deplorable action we did previously..If someone double crosses you, steals from you, or robs your grandmother, or worse knocks off a member of your family, you'll probably find some despicable way to deal with the person, which will without a doubt draw out the blood hounds to serve their own version of justice, which creates the grudges..while i agree that  a son, daughter, or associate, friend shouldn't be held accountable for their bloodlines or friends deeds, but the other side of that is that I myself find it difficult to look at the son or daughter of a couple of people i cant stand to share the same air space with and not want to clock the asses..

There is nothing that the Rock sees as a deplorable action. As you say @FatherTeQ, we are all criminals. We Murder, rob, extort, assault, mug, steal and generally do anything to make a quick buck. There are many things here that some people see as deplorable, betraying your family, Killing a member of your family, giving family secrets to your family's enemies. Its not so cut and dry with me. It has taken a long time for the Rock's family to come to this realisation, but these things are all part of how we play the game. No, not OOCitis, the Rock doesn't suffer from some common jabroni illness. The Rock mean's the game of life, the game of being a mobster.

The Rock remembers reading about a time when a family RHM cleaned out his bosses savings and HQed half his crew. To most, this would be a deplorable action, but is it? Given what we do on an almost daily basis, is it really? The Rock would reference another excellent speech going on just around the corner, regarding whether you should Aspire to something or just wing it. What if I aspire to take down my CL? What if my CL killed my father and I decided to bring him down and fuck him up in revenge. What would I not be willing to do? I could do one of two things, I could join another family, work my way up, train my gun and take him out, in the process bringing shame and dishonour on the family I chose to join. Alternatively, the Rock could join Eddie Guevara, and work hard for him, earn some money, shoot some enemies, pretend to be buddies, become his best fucking friend, and when he least expects it, bam, take him down from the inside. Fuck him over big style.

Now off course this is all hypothetical, The Rock doesn't want to kill Eddie any more than he wants to kill Lillian Garcia. However, most without knowledge of the whys or wherefores would assume that this was some heinous and deplorable action, and the Rock's name would be mud. As that jabroni IvanRomanov said, history is written by the victors, and in this case the Victor would be Godfather Curtis when he shoots the Rock between the eyes. Is he going to come to the streets and say the Rock was out for revenge, and that's why it happened, or is he going to say The Rock was batshit crazy like Ragnarok, and that's why he was put down? When the Rock's son, little Rocky Jnr comes into the streets to try and put the story straight, who will be believed, the Civilian complaining his dad was killed, or the Mighty Godfather who has earned his place?

As The Rock says, there are no deplorable crimes in this world, save one. The crime of using this world as an excuse to badmouth, badger, harass and generally abuse someone in that other world in which we live. Yeah you jabronis know what the Rock is talking about. That world that you go to when you get back to your HQ and go to sleep for the night. That world you dream about with strange inventions, and technology, where you are not a Made man or a consigliere and hold down a regular 9 to 5 job. When you bring this world into that world, that's when you commit deplorable actions.

Cinnamon had been listening for awhile now. She had taken in what everyone else was saying but felt the need to speak up.

My bloodline has also been on the receiving end of hatred via mails or coffee shops based on what people had heard, rather than them speaking to my line at all. That is fine, because it shows me how people pass on such information. Generally, it's in biased form which would be expected.

My line has been lucky enough for there to actually be leaders that do not take in everyone else's opinions before they know themselves. Most of these leaders my line has done fairly well with. It is the closed minded, rumor believing, hatred sharing leaders that my line tends to show their chaotic side with.

Do I personally believe that there is an action so great that it is unforgivable? No. Even my biggest pet peeve, dishonesty, I can at some point manage to forgive. I may not forget it but I can forgive it.

People hold onto hatred for too long that it blinds them as to what is in front of their faces now. Perhaps when the coin flips they may realize that? Who knows.

She flashes a smile towards Father_TeQ and wades her way out of the crowd. Finding herself free from people she went along her business.

Father_TeQ I think the issue that you raise here is more about maturity and understanding. That our way of life is cyclical more than anything else. There are still people that are bloodlined, some of them deserve it because they just don't learn, others come to terms with the issues at hand and deal with. Move on! Its usually when you have two people or sides that can't reason at all when the bad blood just stays for the longest of times. 

I remember a little bit ago GodFather Curtis had come out here to address one of the speeches here. He spoke of how the current leadership had at one point or another tracking back generations shot at each other. But today we all sit on the same table and run this thing of ours. Does that mean that none of us were pissed when our fathers were shot down? Nope...but its more the understanding that this is a cyclical thing. You can't hold grudges because at one point or another you will have no one that you like anymore; if it was just based on how history on past forefathers went. 

I remember one of my forefathers was blood thirsty at one point, not taking any names. But there was a c*%t once that drove my forefather crazy. This guy was a pain in his butt, and for a part of his time here...he hunted his bloodline, doing damage in any way possible. But as I started with my first statement...you gotta reason with the person. And at times the other person isn't reasonable, so you just gotta be the bigger person. But its really about knowing that is a big circle of life, everything that goes up comes down. And vice versa....so really holding grudges is a waste of time and effort. Just sometimes emotions overtake logical thinking....that usually hinders progress in my mind tbh.  

Loving the 'B' comment, Goku. It works especially well if people think you're a complete arsehole too. There have been numerous occasions down the line where an ancestor of mine was gunned down over something spoken and his son received a mail or met with the culprit in the coffeeshops, who usually started to gloat but soon changed their tune when the reply was "lol, good shot... about time someone shut my pappy the fuck up!". I could say that probably about 50% if not more of my lineage's 'long term association' with another bloodline have come from that exact situation!

Reading the journals of my recent ancestors Ragnarok, I can see that what you say is true as our blood's paths have been on the opposite side of things many times but none of my line have ever felt any malice from yours.

You're most welcome clutch and you make a splendid point about it maybe being how many times a certain bloodline does the same things. A lot of the people I spoke of originally who hold these grudges, their blood have also been around here a long time and remember a time when there really was no other way bloodlines would act. For example, many, many moons ago my lineage was famous for having part in setting up the 1st 'underground group' in these parts. For a while, all they were associated with was short but to the point speeches, going rogue and capping high rankers and crewleaders from Earner (it was a much different time back then, could buy a HQ at Earner amongst other things). The bloodlines that were around then still see a lot of that every time a member of my family shows up here. However, with my lineage lingering around here for an extraordinary amount of time, mother nature has mellowed our attitude towards the death side of this world and much prefers a bit of interaction with the general public instead.

Well, 'The Great One'... 

WELL DONE! I can't believe your candy ass has actually pointed out an action my lineage views as deplorable! I've read about the RHM who did that from my ancestors journal who was a good friend of both of the leaders involved in the war that happened during, here is an extract if you'd like to read it. I think he had someone who wrote this stuff for him as it's written like a manuscript.

"Ok, so we're at war with Ganelon, Jono. We're starting to struggle boss! A lot of our main hitters are swimmin' wit da fishes and you can't seem to get a clean shot on Ganelon. What are we going to do? Is it time to start thinking about saving the rest of the family and ending this ourselves?"

(The phone rings)

"Hold on boss, let me get this, it's one of my scouts."

"Speak... WHAT THE FUCK? WHEN? WHO? HOLY SHIT.. KEEP IN TOUCH IF THERE'S MORE!"

"TeQ, what the fuck man? what happened?"

"You might want to sit down boss. We might actually win this war... Ganelon's men are dropping like flies! We don't know how yet but we can confirm at least 10 members of his faction are now deceased!"

"What the...? Do we have some help you're not telling me about?"

"If we do, it's news to me too boss!"

After this extract the handwriting changes, which I believe means is my ancestor writing for himself...

Ok, so it turned out a bloodline who is a mutual friend of ours convinced Ganelon to make him RHM, after which he proceeded to go from room to room inside the HQ and murder many members of the faction. Eventually things were worked out and he was gunned down himself, but not before doing a lot of damage.

I think we may have a...

The pen scrolls off the page here and the blood splatters on the page tell me these were his final actions. It turned out that what the 'RHM' did was not enough to save him and Jono, they still met their makers after a bitter fight. 

THIS is something I view as deplorable action. Although it nearly saved my ancestor's life, it was a despicable act that I don't think my blood will ever fully forgive. To be in someone's family just to turn on them in their time of need is a vile play in my book.

Amen Cinnamon! For some people it probably is going to take the roles to be reversed before they every truly forgive someone. Although I'd bet there's some bitter folk out there who still wouldn't relent! :P

I never fully forgave ExternalLink for what he did.
 

*Continues to listen to the conversation*