*Zeitgeist was making his daily visits to some of the local businesses and bars to collect on the weekly collections when he recognized one of his associates standing on the sidewalk, looking pale as a ghost. Zeitgeist instructed Lenny (The largest and most simple minded of his bodyguards) to pull over the car on the corner. Zeitgeist rolled down the window and called on his associate*

"Oi", he shouted attempting to grab his attention. "What's the matter with you then lad?"

The associate paused for a moment turned slowly still a bit bewildered.

"Well out with it then?" bellowed Zeitgeist.

"Just been visited by...." (leaning in the associate whispered into his ear so no passersby could drop any eaves) the associate clearly visibly shaken.

"Oh?" inquired Zeitgeist. "What did he want then?"

"Well sir, it seems he found out that my father made some good investments in his life and he was looking for a loan" said the associate with more than just a faint stutter.

Zeitgeist scrunched up his face and asked to be sure "You mean to tell me a Made Guy, of some notable stature, from another city, approached you out of the blue on the street, knowing about your inheritance to procure a loan? Are you sure? asked Zeitgeist again.

"Sir I swear it!" exclaimed the associate.

"And what did you tell him then?" demanded Zeitgeist.

"I told him, I didn't have to loan... I don't think he believed me"

"Thanks for bringing this to my attention lad, go down to Sally on the corner she will sort you out with a nice lass and you can relax" ordered Zeitgeist.

....

This was how my day started. I realize it doesn't seem like much but if you take a little time to think about it, and I mean really think about it. Does this seem acceptable to you? For an esteemed member of a foreign city, to approach an associate of another family, knowing about his fathers investments to obtain a loan?

Does this not put the associate in a difficult bind? Surely if the boss was to find out he was investing money with competing crime families in other cities this wouldn't be looked upon to favorably, and on the other hand; to deny a notable member of another city can mean pissing off the wrong person and a swim with da fishes.

My question to you is... Is it proper for a button man, a respected man of title, to approach an associate of another family, from another city to attempt to procure a loan? How does this in turn reflect on the individual? How so on the family?

Perhaps I am too harsh to judge, clearly it was a personal associate so it is hard for me to view this clearly, I appeal to you to share your thoughts. What is an appropriate reaction?

*Zeitgeist steps down from his platform awaiting the thoughts of the six cities*

I don't see why it shouldn't. Business is business, and if I could get a loan from an associate with more ease and more favorable terms than getting a loan with a button man, I would most likely take up contact with the associate. 

This shouldn't put the associate in a difficult position at all, provided he isn't stupid. He should:

• Ask his leader if he is allowed to give out a loan to a Made Man from another city.
• Ask the leader of his potential client if he is okay with a loan being given.
• Set clear terms and rules about repayment, interest and the likes with both the borrower, his leader and yours.

That does look a little complicated for a simple loan, but at least it won't get you into a messy situation. And if you deny this Made Man a loan, how would you be swimming with the fishes? Is it not your right to deny to lend your money to a guy from another city. I think it should be. 

Maybe it is not as 'proper' as trying to procure a loan from someone from your own city, but I don't think it's bad either.

When i mentioned this was a man of stature it was to indicate they held a title of leader or hand.

Still strikes me as improper, but thank you for your views Goto.

Hmm, that might change things. I think it would be okay if said person was a friend or good business contact with said leader/hand, but otherwise I would find it weird, but acceptable.

Goku followed the speaker with a bit of a struggle. He kept pausing much longer than normal in between his sentences. It was really quite confusing. But the more he listened, the more Goku began to laugh to himself. Was he serious?

"Ah Zeitgeist. I think you may be painting this picture a bit off color. I don't think the "associate" you speak of is nearly as green as you're making him out to be. He certainly wasn't "visibly shaken" when I spoke with him.

That's right, I. I have no reason to hide the fact that this speech you've made was about me. I have no shame in what I did. And I know for a fact that dear Jeddy wasn't shaken up by this. Our ancestors were very close, mine and his. And my ancestors have received loans from his in the past. I was in a tight spot with a bookie on the North Side, and asked for a couple favors to tide me over until I get a new shipment in next week. I felt I could trust and count on good old Jeddy for some assistance."

"Obviously, I was wrong. I of course knew he was lying, and knew he must have some reason to do so. That's fine, they are, after all, his assets. Needless to say, I have plenty of other connections and friends, and was able to procure the things I needed. It wasn't a big deal, and I didn't think it would become one."

Goku chuckled.

"Anyone with a brain can see why you brought this out here. I'm sure if it were anyone but me, we'd never have heard about this. You do know me well after all, and knew I wouldn't be able to resist putting in my fair share. But sorry, old friend, I'm not biting, at least not in the way that you're hoping I might."

Jeddy perks up as he hears his name mentioned, curious as to what's going on, he listens in to the conversation and retorts once everyone has said their piece.

"Ah, Goku. I think you may have misjudged the relationship your ancestor had with ol' Papa Jeddy. I have no reason as to why you would have seen fit to contact me, a lowly wise guy, when your own district and real friends should be more than capable to assist your financial needs. I've been working the streets now for about seventy days and the first time I've been in touch with you was you asking for money. During Papa Jeddy's stint in county jail prior to his execution I heard all of his amazing, lovely, and downright brilliant tales of his adventures and shenanigans that took place prior to his incarceration. He also taught me a great deal about money, and the only time he's ever loaned out anything of significance was A) to Cristiano-Ronaldo, and B) To the "Richer than Pratster" project. A project where he did not speak of your ancestor's participation in, mentioning in particular that it was due to the collective questioning on his ethics and morality when possessing a pooled sum of that caliber."

Jeddy chuckled.

"Obviously, as Zeitgeist being a close friend and a mentor, I ask for his input on this event. Especially because in this crew, we seek to uphold the higher standard of keeping our finances behind closed doors. As a guy who is just trying to keep his head down, being approached out of the blue and being solicited for cash that I may or may not have is just surprising to say the very least. I'm just a poor fellow who is trying to make ends meet."

"Young Jeddy, you raise fair points regarding your own money. And I respected that, and still do. That is your choice."

"However, it is untrue that I had not spoken to you once before then. I actually recall trading several telegrams with you when I first got off the boat to this country. Indeed, they were short, and mostly playful mails, but my ancestors journals indicate that our lines have always "shot the shit" so to speak, in mail."

"Ah, well I apologize. My desk can get rather full and I have trouble sorting through my papers, so much so that others tend to come in and routinely clean it for me as it starts to clutter up the place. However I assure you that these playful mails were merely a professional courtesy and that I will tell you now that I am not like those who have preceded me."

"Allow me to add on..."

"You said "anything of significance." I certainly was not asking you for an amount of funds that I would call "significant." Not as such as the two examples you brought up. You make it seem as if I asked you to buy me 175 bodyguards, or in some other way improve my own stature. I simply asked for a small loan between what I thought to be old friends. As had happened before."

"Luckily for me my grandfather left me his journal and pocketbook. This was more what I was expecting, a short term helper. Obviously, this was too much to ask, as we are clearly separated by much more than just city lines at this point." 

I have no interest nor intention of making this a personal argument.

I care little for your past or even your present relationship, if I had wanted to make this a personal matter I'd have indicated who the parties were from the start. If your presence hear is guided by guilty conscience that is unfortunate but truly I have no interest in personalizing this.

My question was phrased in a way to protect identity, and whilst you have clearly shared a lot about your personal relationships, my only question here was; is this behavior; whether conducted by you or Mr Smith acceptable when examining the greater picture of relationships.

If i were to add color to this story you can be assured it would be enough to pull the masses from far and wide, that is clearly not what the intent was.

"Ah yes, July 31st, when Papa Jeddy was still roaming the streets of Staten Island. You mention that was a loan, correct? I've also just gone through and scrolled through the entries of the accounting books over the following thirty-one days and notice that there hasn't been an entry of you repaying the sum which you have now just claimed to be a small loan. Now I'll mention that a common trait shared within my blood is random acts of gifts. Are you sure this transaction was a small loan or would you like to retract your statement and claim this as a gift? If you'd like to affirm your statement that this was a loan between friends then I wouldn't mind some assistance in independently checking our log books for the statement that indicates that you have indeed repaid this sum, lest you be in default of course."

Goku chuckled to himself again.

Right. 

On that note.

Looking at it in the black and white sense that you originally spoke of, yes, I would actually agree that the one asking for the loan would be in a very...erm unethical spot. However, without further backstory of the relationships involved, one would not be able to fairly assess the situation and therefore give an educated opinion on the matter. When a situation is spoken of in a negative light, most people will just assume the one being spoken ill of was in the wrong. 

If there were some crewleader or hand was going around asking random associates for cash or favors, that would be one thing. But someone simply mistaking a past friend for something besides what they were, is something else entirely. If say, I were a young associate who happened to be sitting on some extra assets, and an old friend approached me for a small favor, I would certainly help him out, regardless of his position. I'd sure as hell be tracking him down a couple weeks later, hell, I might even have made arrangements beforehand to make sure he paid me back more than I loaned. 

Well, then, as you were then I suppose. 

Quite clearly Jeddy, I am in default of the loan. Or, my grandfather was, as he died not long after that loan. 

Perhaps it may have been a gift even, I was not there. I have no coffeeshop transcripts or old telegrams to prove otherwise.

If you would like the loan repaid, I can certainly arrange that.

He was in a coffee shop sipping on a nice smooth cup of Joe when something distressing caught his ear waves, a debate inside of the streets, and so Ted did what he always did at a time like this -- he ran the exact opposite way. He had never enjoyed the practice of seeing who could argue louder, maybe it was because he was born with such a gentle and angelic voice. Alas, it was too late. As he entered the outside, the conversation was already in full uproar -- he panicked and did the only thing which he knew, improvisation. Crawling onto the hood of a rather expensive looking car, he cleared his throat and yelled out to the crowd which had since gathered.

Oh, hey. That actually worked. Cool. So, uh, well, I mean, I didn't exactly write a speech or anything. As Zeitgeist has already pointed out... heh... I mean... like... Goku has some... points? Yeah... there's a lot of points, and uh Jeddy, he uh, yeah. He loans things sometimes, maybe? No... wait. Hold on.

He was bombing out there, but he couldn't stop now. Everyone was staring. He closed his eyes and began to hum at a rather high pitch, which to everyone watching was probably a jarring scene to behold, but this was how Ted had always dealt with stress, and it had worked for him nearly one-hundred percent of the time. He searched deep within himself, and soon found it; his fire. He was back. Quickly opening his eyes up nice and wide, he restarted his speech.

I don't exactly know what happened on this fateful March day between Goku and Jeddy, and quite frankly, I don't believe that any of us were ever intended to know. So I will happily change the subject back to its original point and start to discuss about the actual topic at hand once more; do I believe it is right to ask an associate from another city for money? Well, no. Not if I am in a position of power, and not if I do not know the person who I am attempting to take out this loan from. 

Ted stops the conversation for a moment to make sure everyone is still paying attention to him, and once he is happy with the amount of heads turned his way, he carries on.

Of course no one would disagree with this, because it is a rather large risk to put yourself out there with someone you barely know and attempt to procure money in any way, shape, or form. Even thinking about walking up to an associate in another city and asking for cash would rub everyone involved the wrong way, no doubt. With that said, however, asking for a loan from someone that you know, associate of another city or otherwise, should be absolutely fine and I see no problem with this whatsoever. 

Jumping down from the car, he walks into the middle of the crowd and flashes off his winning smile.

If I believe myself to be friends with someone, be it that they are from Mississippi or all the way over in Arizona, I would never hesitate to ask them for a little bit of cash if I were in dire need, and I am sure a lot of people around here would agree that they have done the same at some point in their lives. So, in summation, yes, I don't believe you should ask an associate for cash if you do not know them, but if you do then there should be no harm, especially if you have the intention of paying them back.

He was proud of himself, he was able to constructively talk about something for the first time in his life, and he didn't even swell up and pass out like he usually does. Walking back over to the car, he coolly rested his arm onto one of the doors and stood there waiting; he knew that he wasn't safe yet and at any moment someone could begin to counter his points, but he was ready. He was good at this now! He started to hum to himself while he watched the rest of the conversation unfold, at least for now, everything was perfect.

Another day, another dollar. Another day, another stroll through the streets. Nisha found herself today listening to Consigliere Zeitgeist and was amused at the topic he brought up. She decided to throw in her two cents. 

I hear a lot of whining in our areas of communication.

Nisha had to pause for a moment as ButtStallion let out a whinny. She turned towards ButtStallion and threw the pony one of her signature glares. ButtStallion trotted off to a patch of grass. 

Not Whinnying. Whining. Wailing, moaning, grumbling, obnoxiously sobbing and complaining about all the things that are wrong in this world of ours. One of popular complaints is it’s not what you do or how hard you work, but who you know. Putting coffee shop friendships before family. 

Zeitgeist, the example you’ve presented us with is proof of the problem among us. A person from one criminal city asking another from a different criminal city for a loan, no matter what his or her status is, is not okay. The situation only escalates when the asking party is in a leadership role, with real power or not. Like you said, unfair consequences could fall upon the man who denied the loan. 

The views Goto brought us are good in theory, but in reality it seems like a whole bunch of unneeded work. All of a sudden you’ve got a member from city A, a leader from city A and a member from city B and a leader from city B all using up valuable time, specially of the leaders, about some loan. Plus more time if the loan falls through. Loans are tricky like that. I’m sure most of us have been on the bad end of a loan and if you haven’t, well, keep doing what you are doing. We know that even with the greatest trust towards a person, that person can still fuck you over. 

It’s messy and it’s not needed. Things like this, loans, should be dealt with in house. Acts like this degrade team work. Working together with the people you work with, the place you call home. Which brings me back to the point I started off with. Holding coffee shop friendships or previous friendships above the city you come from…isn’t good. If a member needs a loan the first person they should go to is their leader. Not someone else’s member, not someone else’s leader, and heaven forbid, not someone’s else’s Godfather. 

With the information Goku has shared with us, it shows that this is a problem. 

Many questions come from the words Goku has presented to us. Did he skip over his own leader for help? Did he put his (or what he thought was a) coffee shop friendship before his family, the people that give him a place to call home? What sort of impression will his action make for the members of the crew he helps Don Lexi manage leave? Should they not seek help from the men and women they are suppose to call family for help? 

To be a family you must actually be a family, not just go through the motions of one and then fuck off and reach out to your coffee shop friends because you think they’ll be able to help you more. This only furthers the pessimistic attitude that plagues our world. A crew leader is nothing without their members and a family is nothing without their leader and that’s achieved by working together. So, you gambled a little too much at the casino last night or the whore you spent the night with stole your wallet - ask the people who are there to help you fill your wallet once again. Keep your financial difficulties, your location and your gun power to yourself and those who need to know in your family. 

Due to missing the first half of the conversation I really can't comment on that. I guess it's a prime example though of you only knowing who your friends are/aren't and were/weren't when you find yourself in a bad position and reach out for help.  Whether that's a cash loan or help during a war, it's only then that you find out whether they ever truly cared or whether they just sucked your dick for favours and promotions. Naturally we live and learn from these experiences and move forward accordingly. 

I really feel like you're way off the mark with your observations about Goku and the way he's gone about asking for help ButtStallion. I genuinely believe that he has gone outside of the family not because he doesn't value their help or support but because he's loyal enough to realise that he needs the financial aid but that he doesn't believe himself to be the number one priority to receive it. Him going outside the family helps the rest of the family as Don Lexie_Gray can focus his time on other South Side members confident in the fact that Goku is individually handling his bodyguard needs to further better all of South Side. Running a family is an expensive one and Goku is attempting to alleviate some of that burden off his own leader and family, I genuinely struggle to see the problem with this? As a city we are all struggling with financial issues as shown by our lack of fortifications, bodyguards and general wealth. Whether you care for us or not as a city attempting to publicly lambaste, embarrass and criticize from your relatively lofty heights is a rather poor showing but nothing new even in recent history. Councilman Jeddy's Philadelphia tax anyone? 

The conversation between the group caught Scarfo's attention. He noticed it early on whilst reading a newspaper close by, and stood back whilst the men went back and fourth on the topic. Some trailed off into a more personal conversation, and a few others kept the original point with their own thoughts on the matter becoming vocal and openly shared.

When the energy of the group died down somewhat, Scarfo flipped the newspaper closed, stepped closer to the group and joined in the chatter.

"I think a question should be, why would anyone go outside of their immediate connections for a loan in the first place? Does this person run a business that gives loans? If so, I don't see it being an issue. Even if an associate goes outside the Family he runs with, in my opinion, this would be fine."

Scarfo tucks the newspaper under his arm.

"If though, it's a request to someone that doesn't offer those services, it probably isn't the best move on the person asking for the loan. Why can't they go to the Family that offers them protection? And how exactly does the Family see it? It be a little offended if I were a part of the running of the Family. And from an outsiders perspective, I have to question why this person didn't feel comfortable doing that."

To me it looks like Mr. Jeddy wants to distance himself from his ancestor's old friends and connections, and Goku misunderstood this and thought that Jeddy's bloodline was still considering him a friend? Especially when he bears the name of his (in)famous forefather. But now that Jeddy has announced that he isn't his friend 

Friends are easier to approach about things such as loans after all.

It appears that Jeddy refused to give out such a loan, which is entirely reasonable, I guess. I don't understand why this deserved to be discussed here, on these streets, rather than in private? It doesn't put the associate in a difficult bind at all. It's only a problem if you want it to be a problem. 

Goto stops speaking and wonders about the implants he used to get from an old friend.

Scott-Weiland was wondering around the streets, checking the posted papers on various walls all about, stealing some cash from various officers as they unsuspectingly walked by. While he was thumbing through the haul obtained from the most recent poor officer, he noticed a high ranking official in the New York Crime Syndicate giving a speech which perked his interests. Scott-Weiland then wondered over to give his view on the proceedings.

Firstly, honestly, I don't see much of an issue with this. This is hardly the first time that someone has gone outside of their city for a financial investment or loan. 

My ancestors wrote of a high standing Las Vegas individual who would give loans to anyone, regardless of their history, regardless of their standing, regardless of where they worked or called home. Was what he did, and carried on for many months, poor etiquette, or was it acceptable as he was the high ranking official offering help to associates? Would it be viewed differently if he was an associate offering loans to high rankers? Or in the end, are they one and the same?

Scott-Weiland pauses to take a shot of whiskey from his coat pocket, coughing a little and shaking his head from side to side. It was a bit rougher than he remembered from earlier. 

In that same vein of thinking, couldn't it be said that the Wall Street Marketplace, despite it's anonymity, is the same concept? If you purchase something not from your city, which is clearly marked, are you not then helping a rival city in some manner? 

Now, this being said, while I view loans as acceptable, gifts perhaps are not. Giving a rival city a gift of perhaps millions of dollars, now that wouldn't be acceptable. But, alas, that is irrelevant in this situation.

It’s nice to see some balls on display here, Zeitgeist. Kudos.

Firstly, As a leader, I’m not sure I’d be comfortable with a made member of my family, much less my Right hand, borrowing money from an associate of another city. This is however, dependant on a number of different factors. Business, is business in this thing of ours, money changes hands and loans are made. In my opinion this is always best done inside the family or city. There is no place in the streets for my family to be having its dirty laundry aired.  If however, my long term friend Joe Bloggs was an associate in another city and we were on the sort of terms where he might lend me a few grand and he’d be comfortable with that, then I might ask. But I would always ask my fellow family members first. That’s what families are for, working together, backing each other up and helping each other out.

Secondly, and it has been previously mentioned.. it's one thing borrowing money from somebody who loans, but to just randomly ask an associate of another city because they have a few bucks? That's bizzare.

I’d like to say I feel sorry for the guy that’s been dragged out here, but honestly, I don’t. I obviously don’t know the full circumstances behind this but it certainly makes me wonder what sort of support and family network is in place over there.