The Strong and the weak

First, I must ask this question: Are we here to care for the weak? Do we spend our time to defend those who cannot defend themselves, who cannot retort to someone insulting them? Perhaps we should be, but only for the new blood among us. We should teach those who are relatively new to defend and care for themselves, and in the early stages we ourselves could defend these people where they cannot. But established, and perhaps respected bloodlines, they must be able to defend themselves in hostile situations? Isn't it ridiculous to talk of bullying, when we are respected (and sometimes high-ranking) mafiosi and partake in organized crime? Our business isn't an honest one, we gain by destroying the lives of other, honest, people. And sometimes we destroy each other in order for business to continue. We aren't here for the weak, we are here for our own gain and to keep ourselves alive. 

Should the strong not be able to 'pick' on the weak? To harass them, perhaps to toughen them up, to get them a thick skin? In the past a leader told my ancestor that the streets should be open to anyone, and that no one should be made to look ridiculous. He disagreed with that, and so do I. If you set yourself in a vulnerable position, be it in the streets or elsewhere, is it wrong for the strong to take advantage of that? I think not. We became criminals for our own gain, right. If not, we would have picked honest jobs. Empathy for the weak is, or should not be one of our main principles.

Respect and principles

Respect is one thing, but of course respect is usually from the bottom to the top. Does a Made Man have to respect a lowly associate? I think not. It might be more civil to do so, but it shouldn't be a requirement. When claims are made that a 'universal code' has been broken, I tend to disagree. Each new regime will add sometimes to the existing culture, and apart from the universal rule that condemns funeral disrespect, I don't think there is an universal set of principles we should all adhere to. Maybe Omertá, but beyond that not so much. 

Is it childish for an established mafiosi to come to these streets and complain about people being bullied? I assume he is referring to his comrades in crime; not high school children. This is not a school, nor a daycare. We are living in a ruthless world here, a world in which the weak will be dominated by the strong. The unorganized and soft elements of this world will always fall prey to the strong and unified forces that oppose them. 

Childish Acts?

Do childish actions exist in this thing of ours exist?

I think they do, but on a more limited scale than some think. When someone repeatedly kills a member of a particular bloodline, is it childish? Is it childish to hold a grudge, to build up and prepare to kill a man? To actively train to ruthlessly murder an enemy? I think not. Godfathers and lower people have made claims about this, and I disagreed with those claims. I do not think it is childish at all.

Is it childish to bully someone? Perhaps, but then I have to ask the question if bullying really exists within a world where we are all walking around with guns, were we kill youngsters to get a notch on our gun and where we smack those who talk shit on the streets. And perhaps it is fair for an associate to call someone out for 'bullying' him, but I really feel it makes you look rather foolish to talk about bullying happening if you're a Made Man or above. Maybe I am wrong on this, but I just have a bad taste in my mouth when a respected member of society comes out to talk about bullying. Just not my piece of cake.

Actual Childish acts

A truly childish act is to complain on the streets as a thug or even as a civilian, after a war that killed your father/mother and his/her friends. Childish to the point where it makes you cringe to see it. But then again, these people aren't respected or made members of our world. They are just people who did a petty crime or two. What they know about this world comes from the (biased?) journals of their ancestor(s). 

So, I ask the following questions:

• Should the streets be open to new people in the sense that the community should refrain from reacting negatively to 'stupid' comments made by these people?
• Is it wrong for the strong dominating and picking on the weak? 
• Should we talk about bullying, when we are 'fearless' mafiosi?

Listening to what Goto has to say Templar steps in with a few words...

First, I must ask this question: Are we here to care for the weak? Do we spend our time to defend those who cannot defend themselves,

"I'm not sure what the views of the masses are on this but as a Knight we are sworn by oath to protect the weak and innocent, so yes personally I would, bullying comes in all forms and usually perpetrated by those with with huge ego problems or by those who for some reason are very insecure in their own lives"

Respect

"As for the respect issue we have seen time and time again that some people have no concept of what respect even means maybe they weren't brought up in the appropriate manner, maybe they think they are better than everybody else and thus feel they owe no one any sort of respect believing they are superior"

Childish Behaviour

"Now this really does amuse me one minute someone is on top of the world acting tough then the moment something goes wrong they cry like babies, wake the fuck up this is a dog eat dog world you live and you will ultimately die at some point its what I like to call a fuckin occupational hazzard this is the mafia not some kindergarten school, quite frankly if you cant cut the mustard without whinging like some spoilt kid then what place do you have in our world?"

Templar tips his hat to Goto and wanders off on his daily business.

Should the streets be open to new people in the sense that the community should refrain from reacting negatively to 'stupid' comments made by these people?

I don't think anyone should ever hold back when it comes to reacting to "stupid" comments. Granted that some sort of respect is shown. You mention new people specifically and I think this could be a learning experience for them. One thing that I've realized recently is that many people new to our shores think they are readily able to lead and speak publicly. I tend to think it takes a few months or even longer to get acquainted with this "thing of ours". When I see people like this, I personally feel the need to correct them and remind them of where they are. But I have always shown the respect towards people because I know thats the way I'd prefer to be treated.

Is it wrong for the strong dominating and picking on the weak? 

I have mixed feelings towards this question on the assumption that this is public speaking related. If its not, then no. I do not think its wrong for the strong to pick on the weak. Our whole organization, way of life, is based off of those two things. You even said it for yourself. 

Goto, I agree with you that this place shouldn't become one of whining about being bullied. Or complaining that higher ranks don't treat others with the respect they think they deserve. To all whiners, I would say, man up, prove wrong to those who you think are unfair to you. Or if you can't do that, don't give a damn about it. Make sure others believe in what you do. If no one thinks you are great, well, maybe people are correct about you being incompetent. This especially counts for bloodlines who around for longer.

Regarding the attitude of higher ranks towards lowly associates, as you call them. I interpret that you justify disrespectful behaviour and picking on those with a lower rank. I disagree with such behaviour. For me a higher rank should be a source of inspiration, an example. They should not be some pessimist, grumpy person who achieved something in the past, but now stopped caring and forgot that they were associates themselves too. Would a respectable Made Man go to a kindergarten and steel lollipops? Would a family capo feel the need to disrespect someone if they overheard someone in a park make a stupid comment? These persons got up in the higher ranks of crime organisations because they are honourable, street-wise and efficient. Why would they suddenly start behaving in a way that serves them no purpose.

For complete idiocy in public speeches, the best thing would be to ignore people, instead of disrespecting them. But if people are trying to make an effort, but aren't that successful you can disrespect them, but that would be counter-productive. There's a general consensus that public speaking is highly valued, so because of that I'd recommend that new-comers are encouraged by positive criticism, rather then shot down at failed attempts.

Higher ranks can do to lower ranks, or less capable people, as they please. To a certain extent of course. But my wonder would rather be why someone would get pleasure out of such acts. If one is so fantastic, why don't they go and rob one of the businesses ran by an unfriendly crime organisation? Or if you think an underboss of a different city makes a stupid remark in a public appearance, why not confront them with your intellect? Simply said, why bother playing and winning of the kids, if you're an adult in this life of crime. Play in the league you're in I'd say.

Of course there's a lot of nuance possible, based on different examples regarding this topic. But higher ranks acting out of some assumed "i-am-better-whatcha-gonna-do-attitude" don't command my respect.

Look, the way I see it, a fella comes out and starts talkin' shit about a pretty sunset, you take him down a few notches. But when else is it appropriate to be scathing? Do you rub some young turks face in the dirt over a couple jumbled words when it didn't harm nobody? If speaking up out here in the streets is something everyone'd like to see, we'd better think long and hard about how we wanna approach the babbos who might not know exactly where the letter meets the period. Don Romanov said that it takes a few months before anyone can be comfortable, but I am of the opinion that as long as you're not offending the alligator-skinned slippers off Al Sharpton's feet, a thought shared is a thought gained. Everything you do on the streets represents you. I believe that. And that being said, when you look like an idiot, people think you're an idiot. But an attempt at respectful conversation, misled, confused, anything, is better than none at all. Isn't that how you learn? You can crack a few eggs when it's the right thing to do but sometimes I think we get carried away in our derision, something that I have always felt also reinforced the idea that respect should be given to a rank without prejudice, as if to say, "You've made yourself look like a fool, paisan" is to also say, "Show me the respect I deserve for being here". 

As for bullying, and the strong picking on the weak, I fear I have as little to say of that as Don Romanov. It's not a frivolous idea - a man can be pushed so far - but that is more to do with consequence than impact. You're only bullied so far as you allow yourself to be, and that it is something needing debate in our world is somewhat unbecoming of our profession. How does anybody allow their family to get, as we call it, 'bloodline' killed? Is that a form of the bullying we're talkin' about, besides what happens out here in the streets? The most natural instinct we have is self-preservation - when hunted, hide. Even Godfather's hit the mattresses. Willpower can overcome most obstacles, but you've gotta have the stugots to handle adversity. I have as little sympathy as the next man. 

Everyone starts out weak. To forget that is to forget that you once started at the bottom. Where bullying comes in is when a line is crossed. And there are people that cross that line as often as they possibly can. So yes, bullying does exist in our world. Most will choose to turn a blind eye, others will pretend that it never happened and the strong will confront it head on.

To believe it does not exist is perhaps extremely naive. Just like any other profession you may have contemplated taking on from doctor, lawyer to criminal, it exists. There is always a line of what is acceptable and what is not.

Respect is not something you are automatically given based on rank. Am I saying that people have the right to treat high rankers like shit? No. I am saying do not mistake the ability to be civil to everyone as respect. Respect takes time to build and its based on the person's actions more than the rank they have.

You use the word dominate to mean something negative. Are you purposely trying to make it seem like high rankers are horrible people? Or that they value the associates so much less? I find this is not the case in most situations. Associates are useful in our world and more often then not they work effortlessly trying to earn the right to be Made Men in their families.

Respect is a two way street.

Childish acts do exist. You gave such a prime example. However I will touch on the questions you have posed in this section.

The streets should be open for everyone. The new and the old. A difference of opinion is more than acceptable, in fact it even leads to decent discussions. It doesn't mean it will change either person's thoughts but it keeps things interesting. Some people do not have the ability to express their thoughts clearly so may come across as stupid to other people. Clarification is always key. If you assume something then you never quite know for sure whether your assumption is right or wrong.

Not everyone's first language is English. Should people be mocked for that? No. Everything takes practice. If they cannot practice in the streets or be able to speak their mind then you are left with only the extremely outspoken to create a discussion. I would prefer to see more people sharing in on discussions rather than hiding away because some people can't understand the difficulty people have when speaking.

The strong don't dominate the weak. They help the weak grow into something stronger. Picking on them is just a form of bullying. What happens if you should lose your rank or your next of kin enters this lifestyle? You would honestly want them harassed? Purposely baited? Antagonized? Seems a bit silly to think so but to each their own.

First off, thank you to everyone  coming out here to share your thoughts with me and the rest of the community. Secondly, I do not think that disrespecting a lower rank or picking on an associate is honorable or professional, but I think it's justifiably because they can. 

Now, Cin, you said:

Everyone starts out weak. To forget that is to forget that you once started at the bottom. Where bullying comes in is when a line is crossed. And there are people that cross that line as often as they possibly can. So yes, bullying does exist in our world. Most will choose to turn a blind eye, others will pretend that it never happened and the strong will confront it head on.

Of course everyone starts out weak, but that's easily remedied by hard work and effort. I still think that referencing and complaining about bullying is one of the silliest things you can do, and I really dislike (and lose a bit respect for their words) it when they (made people) do that. IF an associate does it, still pretty silly, but meh, it's an associate. Perhaps I am turning a blind eye then?

To believe it does not exist is perhaps extremely naive. Just like any other profession you may have contemplated taking on from doctor, lawyer to criminal, it exists. There is always a line of what is acceptable and what is not.

Naive? I think not. I ignore this 'problem' in the sense that it shouldn't be made a problem. Can't handle it? Then perhaps you're not very fit to be a gangster after all. I also think it's a bit weird to compare regular and legit professions to our criminal activities. And I really don't thin k there is an acceptable line besides perhaps funeral disrespect. Everyone can decide for themselves what is acceptable and what is not, there is not necessarily a consensus on what that is. 

Respect is not something you are automatically given based on rank. Am I saying that people have the right to treat high rankers like shit? No. I am saying do not mistake the ability to be civil to everyone as respect. Respect takes time to build and its based on the person's actions more than the rank they have.

True respect isn't given automatically, true. But a certain amount of civility should be shown towards those of higher ranks, and I do think that is one of the many layers of respect. 

You use the word dominate to mean something negative. Are you purposely trying to make it seem like high rankers are horrible people? Or that they value the associates so much less? I find this is not the case in most situations. Associates are useful in our world and more often then not they work effortlessly trying to earn the right to be Made Men in their families.

I have never said that high rankers are horrible people. I am of reasonable rank myself and I don't consider myself to be too much of an asshole.  Associates are useful; but they don't command the level of authority and requirement in civility/respect when speaking to one.

The streets should be open for everyone. The new and the old. A difference of opinion is more than acceptable, in fact it even leads to decent discussions. It doesn't mean it will change either person's thoughts but it keeps things interesting. Some people do not have the ability to express their thoughts clearly so may come across as stupid to other people. Clarification is always key. If you assume something then you never quite know for sure whether your assumption is right or wrong.

The streets should be open to anyone indeed. This also means that they are open to be  'blasted' on the streets for their opinion and conduct. If you cannot properly explain yourself in the streets, don't go to the streets.

 The strong don't dominate the weak. They help the weak grow into something stronger. Picking on them is just a form of bullying. What happens if you should lose your rank or your next of kin enters this lifestyle? You would honestly want them harassed? Purposely baited? Antagonized? Seems a bit silly to think so but to each their own.

If those higher up want to pick on me, they can expect me to defend myself [with words]. But honestly, if you have to complain about being bullied, then what the fuck are you doing here?

Darth Vader listening to the man speak seems very opinionated and Darth Vader really like this he paid close attention weighing the conversation in his headand listening to the response of the crowd he stepped forward and began to speak on the matter

very good questions to raise here I applaud you for this and would like to weigh in on my opinion I believe that if you are willing to come out hereand speak on different matters and others opinionsthen you should havethe ability to take constructive criticism or negativeinput. this world of ours requires a thick skinwe are not here to be a bunch of tree hugging holding hands and singingcampfire songs. rather you want to admit it or not this is a dog eat dog world (Real Life Implied also) you cant expect everyone to like youor respect you the respect is earnedif you wish to get further then people need to know that you are competentI know how to handle yourself even "bullying" if I hear a made man or above complaining about being bullied I would demote himbecause sometimes you need to be able to stand up for yourself you are a mafiosoand the truth is in this world majority of people or just dicks until you truly get to know them and gain their respect. now one of your questions what should we allow the new bloodlines to speak out in the streets. this is a hard one to answer because in my opinionthe answer would be no until they prove themselves. but then again how would they prove themselves? I sometimes like to have the newer bloodsdiscuss and watch in private andaI do try to tell themto understandthat not everybody will have the same opinion or see eye to eye with you that they need to have a thick skin man up and take the "bullying" on the chin. To me that showsgood character and the fact that you have control over yourself and not flying off the handles crying kicking and screaming like a little child.