I'm not sure if this particular topic warrants me coming out here and sharing my thoughts on it, but nonetheless I will.

I've become slightly miffed recently about a worrying trend that seems to have descended on our world once again. As I was running an errand for 'Our Dear Betty' I came across a young upstart. This particular young upstart looked like they had nothing but the clothes they were currently wearing and not a penny to their name. I'd spotted that they were hanging around the local club where I know a couple of the local 'heavies' play a high stakes poker game a few times a week. 

Now, seeing youngsters hanging around this particular establishment is not something new to our world. They get a view of the 'good' side of our world and become enchanted by it... not knowing fully how much gumption it takes to actually lead this life. But this particular kid wasn't like the other kids who kept their distance and admired from afar, this one as the Made guys (all from various families), came out from that smoke filled room, stood right in their path ranting and raving about how they should be impressing this kid enough so that they join their family.

After a chuckle, the mobsters luckily for this kid just moved on and ignored them.

Was this upstart mad? Who the fuck were they to demand that they were 'impressed' enough to join someone's family?

Turns out that maybe they weren't so crazy after all, as I've heard through the grapevine that they have indeed managed to find shelter. Seems like pride and honour takes second place to filling up the HQ nowadays, huh?

Am I the only one that gets slightly annoyed at people fresh off the boat with this attitude? Why the hell do I need to impress someone for them to join our family? We are an established, courteous and well-connected family and district. Surely the roles should be reversed and I should be the one taking judgement on whether to extend an olive branch?

shakes his head

Maybe I'm looking at this the wrong way. Maybe the problem lies with the current amount of barely filled HQ's our world has, so much so that some people in the bold suits are dropping their standards to a bare minimum when it comes to the 'quality before quantity' approach in the pursuit of riches and protection so young upstarts feel they can 'play the field' for a while until they finds someone who will bend to their whim a little more.

This is indeed an interesting subject Father_TeQ quite recently in fact I have stumbled across these sorts of attitudes needless to say my contact with these people ceased immediately, those wanting to join a crew should be impressing those looking to recruit whilst I agree sponsors and crewleaders should to some extent offer up the benefits of joining their crew.

I have also of late experienced the complete opposite where someone has taken the time and effort with their communications with a thug only for them to be met with "Is all this necessary cant you just send me an invite", seems certain standards have dropped at both ends of the spectrum.

I can understand the attitude that these youngsters are taking. Before you jump to the conclusion that I believe it's right, I am merely saying that I can understand it.

Think about this, we have seen many silent leaders. It is hard to grasp that maybe they are courteous or anything else. You can not draw a conclusion from nothing. Other than they are mute.  I believe that this trend has seen many more youngsters wanting to be impressed.

I do not think joining a family should be taken so lightly. So when you are trying to gauge if a family is a good fit for you as a younger member of our community you may not have much to work with. This is also why I feel street presence is important from the very least, leaders.

To give an idea of what you stand for, or how you think on certain topics is usually very helpful in determining if someone will fit in with your family. I am not saying everyone has to think the same in a family, but you need to know what you can deal with and what you cannot in terms of a leaders attitude and thoughts. More often then not they would be passed down.

If a leader thought associates deserved to be treated like dirt, well maybe that might not be the place for someone who has a great deal of self respect and wishes to be able to work hard without constant bashing.

I believe this problem probably extends both ways a little bit. Silent leaders, and sense of grandeur.

Not knowing these leader due to their silence is not an excuse to demanding anything from leaders. Contact the leaders or let the leaders (or their sponsors) contact you. I can understand that a youngster with an established bloodline will look out for leaders who aren't mute, but I do think that street presence of the leader is not one of the main factors I myself join a family for. A factor, sure, but not a too big one.

So, I think that these associates shouldn't expect a leader to come impress them, but rather the other way around. I am sure the leaders of our world can do without a pompous associate. 

Is it an excuse? No. It could be a factor in the increasing problem that we are seeing though.

Thing is, just because it is not a reason you join a family, it could very well be a reason someone else does. Or perhaps just something that someone is interested in reviewing to understand who they may be working for.

Yes very much so - the crew leaders/sponsors should impress the members.  Until the average crewleader can start providing a mutually beneficial arrangement much earlier in the business arrangement , the good members are in high demand and many crew leaders are a dime a dozen.  Most crews *eventually* start providing some worth to the member later on down the road but in the beginning it is a very one sided thing. 

Since it seems way too common for crewleaders to claim ownership of their members instantly via the "Accept" procedure, you need to ensure that you select the benefactor of your hard work with a very careful screening process.  Quality over quantity is very important as a member - wait for that family to have that "wow factor" to where you honestly feel its a no brainer to join.  You would be absolutely stupid not to join a family of this caliber.  You will never be happy in a crew that does not, or will not put their best foot forward to find a mutually beneficial business and family arrangement.

I feel that when the "I need to *own* people" mentality fades away from the average mindset of crews, it wont be such a fatal mistake to land in the wrong crew.  As of now, it seems that most crews would rather kill you, have you killed, or restrict where you are allowed to go the exact moment you nod your head signalling Accept.  When you realize its not a good match and in a situation where the crew has literally not given you more than you have given them - it seems that most suffer a hurt ego and would rather lash out and punish you ensuring they create an enemy, rather than find a mutually beneficial way where someone can walk away with a new found respect for the crewleader.

I've often thought that the lower the self confidence of the leader, the more scared they are to show any kind of reasoning in a situation where they do not "EPIC WIN!"; a neutral situation or a mutually beneficial one would be interpreted by someone lacking self confidence as a moment of weakness, and they can't let others see this under any circumstance.

So in conclusion, as a person looking to be courted by their potential sponsors, wait until you one wows you.  You will give the lions share of your income, work, time, and ultimately you will die because of this person - so make sure they wow you enough that you will never regret it.  If they are unwilling to do this in the beginning when they are in a one sided receive only relationship - what does this tell you about them later on in life when they actually have to start providing services in return for what you do?

Oswea, I simply cannot agree with you, leaders are very busy, important people. To suggest that leaders should jump through hoops to impress their leaders is simply absurd. Looking around our streets and the regard in which leaders are held by their members and others, should be enough.

Of course, discussion has to take place and of course, you have to be ‘satisfied’ by a leader in order to work for them, but this is simply common sense. To ask a leader what they’re going to do for you is nothing short of disrespect, in my book. Every man and woman has to EARN their place in this society. If I were in charge of my own organisation I wouldn’t simply be promising you the earth in order for you to work for me.

It should go without saying that once you earn your place IN the family, by becoming a made man, that leaders will back you. A line of course has to be drawn somewhere, if you are out of line, disrespectful or blatantly wrong, why should they back you?

Nobody is bigger than the organisation they work for, and any sheep, which is lowering the tone of the family should be bled for the good of the flock. If you’re dragging my families’ name down and brining us into disrepute, I will have you seen to, I don’t give a fuck who you are.

On the other hand though, if one of my made guys makes a point that is correct, remains respectful and I feel has significant grounding and evidence, I will back them to the wall.

That’s the way the Mafia should work. I hate to break it to you, but crewleaders are not here to sing and dance for your entertainment or benefit.

Cin, as for leaders impressing prospective members through the medium of the streets, it is not so long ago that you were out here embarrassing yourself, shouting the odds. That’s an excellent look, really. I’m sure it does nothing to make your leader look less inviting, despite how hard Mr.Black clearly works to better and improve his family.

People in glass houses, should not throw stones young lady. 

Tony Capazzo listens to Father_Teq talk and nods while smoking a cigar. Indeed he has raised a interesting topic and some good questions. Tony listens to what some of those in attendance have to say and patiently awaits his turn. His good friend Godmother BlackBetty soon expresses her thoughts and opinions and once she's done Tony listens to a few others then throws away his almost finished cigar. He takes a step forward and tips his lime green ribboned fedeora towards the crowd and Father Teq.

"Teq great job on bringing forth a great topic to our streets. Firstly, I share your sentiments with being annoyed at some people who are quite new to our shores contacting leaders and demanding to be impressed in return for their employment."

Tony smirks.

"In my time as a leader I too have come across a few people who were of the same attitude. I politely told them what I was looking for, what I expected in a member of my family and what I valued and believed in. At that point the very few times this has happened the person would still have the same attitude in which I would then once again politely wish them the best of luck in their future on these shores and let them know we are not the right fit for each other."

Tony then shrugs.

"Teq the fact that the same kid in your story was housed surprises me a total of zero. I would assume different leaders have different opinions and views on this type of thing. I can speak for myself though and respectfully where I came from, Don Latin crew. It was there I learned many things and one of those things was always QUALITY OVER QUANTITY. This is why my headquarters have yet to be filled. I have turned away many and will continue to do so until I find ones that fit what I am looking for in a member. Once they've done that, it's their duty to keep that spot and it's my duty to make sure they succeed as long as the effort is put forth."

"I would rather a group of 20-25 men and woman who give it 110% as oppose to 40 men and woman whom are just their for numbers sake and do nothing, this is just my opinion."

Tony pauses a moment before continuing on.

"Cin, you said that you understand where these youngsters are coming from due to some 'silent leaders' being about. I could appreciate a new person to these shores wanting to know certain things however there are ways to go about it. Outwardly demanding things from a leader is not one of these ways. I could remember when I first graced these shores, I was a bit inquisitive myself and curious as well, I didn't visit the streets, however I did speak to leaders and asked them what was expected of me and what my goals were, both short term and long term. I did so in a respectful manner because I understood even at a young age how this life works. So to be quite frank the talking or muteness of a leader bares no factor on how respectful or cordial one should be when approaching them especially someone new to these shores."

"Oswea, you say the crew leaders and sponsors should impress the members. To a certain point I agree but maybe not the same way you're thinking. I tell potential members what I am looking for in addition I tell them about what they can POSSIBLY gain in my family quickly followed by how they can go about making those things happen. If my opinions, thoughts, views and ideas of how my family is ran is not impressive enough for them to want to join, well then, we aren't a right fit, point blank. As stated before I have no problem expressing to the youngsters what opportunties are available to them, it's a fair question."

Tony takes a step back as he starts to conclude.

"At the end of the day I know what I do and what I have. I know what my men and women did to get into my family and what they do while in my family. I will continue to do my same routine otherwise it would be a slap in the face not only to myself but to all the ones who've done it before and as RoryRourke put it...nobody is bigger then the organization they work for."

With that Tony tips his fedora to the crowd once more and takes a step back as the next person begins to speak.

Cin looked on as people mentioned her name. Listening on intently.

Rory you mention a speech that I made but do you know why that speech was even created? Perhaps not and that is more than okay. In regards to being silly, it was not mean to be serious. It was a laugh, something to change the speed of what I was listening to for just a little bit. So as far as stones and glass houses go, well if you can't laugh then are you really living?

Turning her attention to the next mention of her name.

Thank you Mr. Capazzo. I know when I joined Mr Black here we had done a bit of talking. That is the usual way it goes though. I never said what these younger members were doing was the best way about it. Merely that I could understand where a factor of it may stem from.

I am also not saying that silent leaders are entirely bad. Just that I wish more spoke up so that before people approached them that there was something to go on. An idea of somewhere to start, perhaps a mutual thing you could agree on? Who knows. It can be intimidating to speak to someone so boldly suited when you are young and try to sort out the best place for you. You don't want to insult them if they don't turn out to be a great fit.

leaders are very busy, important people. To suggest that leaders should jump through hoops to impress their leaders is simply absurd.

We agree on this, which is why a good leader will employ highly qualified sponsors to act on their behalf.  If you train your sponsors and pay them well, they will bring you the best of the best.  Ford, Rockefeller, Carnegie.. these men built empires, but they were smart enough to know that you can't micromanage every single aspect.  They employed very capable people to help grow and staff their business.

Looking around our streets and the regard in which leaders are held by their members and others, should be enough.

I do not feel that your average family member would speak the truth to a stranger if asked about the family if it will shed a poor light on them.  No one wants to be killed and lose everything because someones precious feelings were hurt.  Its impossible to draw an accurate conclusion despite due diligence when no one can speak the truth.  Some people are just going through the motions, waiting for the day their boss is killed and hope they can live through that so they can get into greener pastures. 

Every man and woman has to EARN their place in this society.

We also agree on this, every family member including crew leader, upper structure and sponsors are not exempt from this, nor should they ever be.

Nobody is bigger than the organisation they work for, and any sheep, which is lowering the tone of the family should be bled for the good of the flock. If you’re dragging my families’ name down and brining us into disrepute, I will have you seen to, I don’t give a fuck who you are.

We also agree on this, the crew leader, upper structure and sponsors are not exempt from this, nor should they be.  Anyone who who tarnishes the reputation of the family or jeopardizes its future should be dealt with in a manner that benefits the family the most. I'm not sure what this had to do with my original conversation with Father_TeQ but I am glad we share the same views on this.

I think where we might differ is that in a situation such as follows:

Would your parents have even met if prior to that them meeting, everyone was forced to marry until death anyone they went on a first date with?  I am not married to the first person I went on a date with.  Nor was I killed because we didn't hit it off after 1 date.

But if you knew that going on a first date had to end in marriage or death immediately after that first date, do you not agree that it should be treated with the utmost respect to ensure that both parties have wow'd each other enough to ensure that things look good enough before anyone actually gives up too much?

Some times you have to go on a date to realize this person is for you.

Other times you have to go on a date to realize this person isn't for you.

You do not have to assassinate those who didn't feel the spark.  Or force them to only date your friends in your town and forbid them to leave your town.

So if you can further explain why setting up a situation where the sponsor and the prospective associate court each other is a bad thing? I would think that a family made of people who actually want to be there on both sides of the equation would be a stronger family than those who are just going through the motions until some external factor causes them or their leader to die.

Cin,

Even if it wasn't meant to be serious, it was a very bad laugh. I laughed, but I also cringed very hard. It was a rather odd experience, really. But perhaps your sense of humor is different? I really think you were the only one laughing about it in a positive way, rather than laughing at how amazingly bad and stupid it was.

Also, usually those that demand things from their leader or want these leaders to impress them aren't so new, and if they're asking for leaders to impress them, they aren't really intimidated by them. Because, I think that is what we are talking about? I for one don't assume that new blood here demands much from leaders.

Goto,

As far as this not being new, neither is a lot of things. The only thing I am attempting to do is to open up possibilities. It is better than just complaining about it. To gather some form of idea as to why this happens is at least a start into solving it.

You can't cure everything if you know nothing about it. You need to really look at things from more than one angle. At least throwing out ideas to ponder is better than nothing, isn't it?

Why it happens? Probably because people are just being pretentious dicks, who need to be taught a lesson about what they can and can't receive/demand from a leader.

And no, throwing ideas out to ponder is not necessarily better than nothing, in my view. For example, a stupid idea is worse than nothing.

Father_TeQ, on the whole I have seen this to be quite a prevalent attitude from not only new recruits but by sponsors. 

The onus seems to be on the sponsors, on the family, to sing and dance and do all kinds of fucking jazz hands in order to attract new recruits, and to be honest, to me, that seems completely and utterly fucked up. The WhereWasI bloodline as lronsight was the last that I can recall to very publicly refuse, no matter what the cost to the speed of the expansion of his family, to join in the complete fucking circus that is recruiting new members. 

Now, I do, in large part, blame the way that our world is set up for this. Rather than having jobs for those fresh off the boat to complete, rather than even allowing button men to go stuffing notes into the pockets of those fresh of the boat begging and pleading for them to join their crews, rather than seeing button men disgrace their leaders by sending half arsed and one line pickup attempts on those fresh off the boat, I would personally much prefer to see a system where information about different crews is displayed with a list of people to be contacted for those interested. This would then mean that rather than seeing those fresh off the boat be swallowed into crews by those who practically beg anybody with a -1 badge on their suit to become their associate, we would see them having to actually make some effort into researching which leaders might be right for them. This, I believe, would also encourage our leaders to show a little more personality rather than being as anonymous as some tend to be. To me, a solution like this is win/win in several different ways and is something that probably should be considered by the Gods.

With that said, there are also things that we as leaders, hands and sponsors can do, and that is to namely put the onus on the new recruits to impress us, rather than allowing us to feel the need to impress them. And if we do see other sponsors within our crews going about business in that way, perhaps it's worth a quiet conversation with our leaders about the way our crews present themselves. 

Oh man! All this talk about singing and dancing and impressing people. All for what men and women that work for you and do all your dirty work for you? Yes...you maybe the backbone of my crew, my drive and everything else. But that still doesn't mean I have to jump to recruit. Now Ive heard so much today in the streets of bloodlines and lineages and people speaking up their pasts. I think those very bloodlines that speak less and do more and achieve a bit don't really need to go out there and do a lot of this singing and dancing. Good mafioso's will usually follow leaders that have shown certain qualities. With that said, I think recruitment is a necessary process. Some will always have a leg up on others because of their past. As they say...you reap what you sow! Some will reap the rewards of having managed their pasts quite well. 

Now back to the 'impress me part'. When someone does jobs for my crew, I usually will send out a message trying to strike a conversation to see what someone is trying to achieve. See where their heads at, what they want to accomplish and how. What perhaps some of their past lineage may have done. All that comes into evaluation when recruiting. In these same conversations, I have had numerous players impress me and asked for an opportunity...which I granted. Now there were others that impressed me and wanted my take on how I was going to move forward...now thats a little awkward to me, but none the less. If we were going to work together moving forward, I had no problem giving this perspective member a little synopsis of what you plan to do over the next some days moving forward. Some of this struck a cord with these folks as well and they asked for an opportunity and based on their merits it was granted...at times. But that doesn't mean I went out of my way to impress them. I didn't jump through hoops to get these guys to sign on board. Most in our world today will still follow strong leadership, thats just how it is. If you are good at something, you will attract the best. Now I will say this though, some of these recruits did bring up to me how they didn't like being just recruited by sponsors and no word from the CL's. They brought up how they think they are being sent a 'generic statement' of sorts and that was annoying them. 

So in essence I did make the effort to go down to the docks myself to greet some of these new faces, but it wasn't on their terms...it was on mine. Doesn't mean I don't have recruiters, I have men in my crew that are recruiters, but you best believe I have spoken beforehand with everyone that has ever been given the opportunity to wear my tags. 

So I get it when people are saying they want a word with the bosses...no problem! Your going to sweat and bleed for them, you deserve that much. But to say that a Crew Leader should be impressing the guys coming of the boats is just horrendous!!! A crew leaders work should speak for itself. A CL that visits the streets often is obviously more known than one who doest visit the streets as much. But that still is no excuse to make a CL sing & dance to get a member. 

And lastly Oswea

As of now, it seems that most crews would rather kill you, have you killed, or restrict where you are allowed to go the exact moment you nod your head signalling Accept.  When you realize its not a good match and in a situation where the crew has literally not given you more than you have given them - it seems that most suffer a hurt ego and would rather lash out and punish you ensuring they create an enemy, rather than find a mutually beneficial way where someone can walk away with a new found respect for the crewleader.

Its funny how you brought that up. A little while I ago...well very many moons ago there was a guy by the name of Louis-Gato. His crew could really be classified as the "IA-farm". He invited people on board, took 80% taxes and eventually killed most of his members. Now I don't have to keep this going to tell you how his legacy went. But I will tell you this, the other day I was talking to someone that was brand spanking new to this world of ours. I usually tend to take my time to educate these individuals so they have an understanding of what they are getting themselves into. And I walked away to get a cup of coffee I come back to my office and he was gone. I look at the person, he was crewed. One message sent. And I can bet you what it was "IF YOU DONT JOIN A CREW YOU WILL DIE!!!" Invite sent, man stuck. I could have easily started my convo that way...but thats beneath me. I don't scare people to house them, I want people here that want to be here as BlackBetty said. Its just a shame that there are still people that will take advantage of the younger crowd...and eventually with lack of education we will loose that mobster's lineage from these shores. It is sad, but it does happen. And I understand your frustration when it comes to that Oswea, its just sad how it happens. But some recruiters will do anything necessary to fill ranks. I think the gap really is that these recruiters think they are house fillers and not educators. When you think of yourself as the latter...its a responsibility and a ton of work to get a new face settled in. Thats when its most fun when you groom someone....alas not everyone is alike! 

Oswea, as stated privately... cracking reply even if I don't agree with it.

Although I can assure you, Bella Vista 'owns' none of our members unless they have their button. Until that point, it's upto both our members and ourselves to impress the other. There are numerous ways this is possible and I find just communicating with my family is a great way of gaining trust and loyalty. I've also thrown around quite a bit of cash, protection and gifts since we got our district to people who have been working to improve it. I aim to be the hardest worker in my district in ALL areas, then anyone joining up with us cannot tell me I don't do enough for them. I can guarantee the more effort that anyone puts into Bella Vista, they will get twice the effort back from myself or BlackBetty.

However, to be told I have to impress someone on a personal level, when they've just got off the boat is slightly infuriating. They've proven or given nothing to me or anyone else in this world. The part that infuriates me is they're whoring themselves out to the highest bidder... a lot of the time that highest bidder is also the biggest arsehole.

Personally, the way forward has always been for the upper structure of any family to have street presence. That way 'freshers' can take a look inside the mind of any potential sponsor before ever conversing with them, but until this has become 'the norm' again there's not any huge signals for any new mobster to tell whether a potential sponsor is a mouth breathing knuckle-dragger.

I am totally with the last part of your speech. Anyone coming off the boat should do exactly that... wait for someone to WOW you. You will follow them to the depths of hell in the long run. Do not just whore yourself out to the person who promises you the most riches. Everything that you deserve will come to you in this world if you make the right decisions.

As a new recruit myself, I feel that this is a two way street. I must impress you for you to notice me to prove my worthyness for you and you must impress me on why I would be an asset for you and why I would want to be that asset.

 "...and you must impress me on why I would be an asset for you and why I would want to be that asset."

Forgive me if I misunderstood. However, I'm not sure that I follow the logic here. It is your viewpoint, that a CL or their sponsors must impress you by trying to persuade you of reasons that you would be an asset to their family?

CapN_Jack takes a swig of rum, mutters a sigh and massages his temples.

How is it, being that you are new and unknown to others around, that a CL or any sponsor would have enough information about you to birth such persuasion. The only thing either of the two have to go on is what YOU tell THEM your ambitions are, what your purpose is in this thing of ours and what it is that YOU intend on accomplishing. Which, last time I checked was you impressing on them why you would make a good fit in their city and crew.  Of course, there is the counter that the sponsor you are talking to is familiar with your bloodline. Okay. This is not what you voiced. As far as your viewpoint is concerned, a CL needing to impress a thug is so far out of my understanding that I cannot begin to understand why such an idea would even be acceptable. My opinion of course. 

CapN_Jack takes another sip of r-

Bahh, why is the rum always gone!

I would say it should work both ways.  All families have jobs out there for potential applicants, much like in the legitimite lifestyle.   The interview process should be finding out whether that person is suitable and what they can bring to the family, but at the same time also tell them about yours.   They should be told some background (hopefully already knowing some) a long with some beliefs and behaviours of that family, for it is all well and good them being fantastic on paper - but if they don't fit in with the rest of the family then it will not live up to it's potential. 

One of the worst things I've seen, and it still goes on, are those who offer money to those fresh in this life to join them.  I, like most others, just think this defeats the purpose of recruiting and in my opinion it harms them, as they may not feel the need to work as hard for their own cash.