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The reason doesn't concern you. Started by: Truyk on May 06, '15 13:33
That would be correct, it doesn't.

Aside from this "cop out" why aren't reasons given for a removal? Is it Godfather laziness? Probably. Is it lack of tangible reason? Doubtful. Do we genuinely just not care to inform the masses of our actions?

Perhaps my bloodline is spoilt, perhaps I (like to think) am a little more "old school." Perhaps I couldn't give a shit about all the half assed reused shitty content filled topics to tick the "meets crewleader requirement" speeches that now little the speeches. This is the only time that a topic is 100% brand new, never occurred before and never will again. So why can the crew leaders and Godfathers responsible not give us the reasons for a removal in a reasonable time period? Click monkey central.

Laziness breeds laziness as a "great" man once said.
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Laziness, lack of actual reasons and possible backlash I'd say. Maybe they need time to "find" reason, or maybe they think that the masses will find it all jolly and well if there's silence about it from the top?
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There are a few reasons the victors don't always choose to share their reasons with us lower levels.  First and foremost is the ever moving goal posts; after a long war you are tired, you want to lick your wounds, mourn the dead, and finally revel in your victory with your family.  The last thing you want to do is do verbal battle with children for days on end who will never accept or even consider your answer, never take you at your word, and certainly will never really "let it go".  They lost the war, so they now choose to extract their revenge in a never ending battle of twisting words and stretching truths.   If there could be a civil short debate then I am sure it would happen much more frequently, but until such time that civility is the norm, the victors would more than likely not willingly engage with anything that is an exercise in futility.

Playing devils advocate, I would love to be a fly on the wall in the war room, but at the end of the day, I fully understand it is simply curiosity, and not necessity.  The opposing side doesn't owe you anything.  Ask yourself, how many of those who have fallen in the past have had the leaders of their own family personally reach out to the sons and daughters of the fallen and explain why the family was taken out?  This is your own family, people who do actually owe you an explanation.

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I've always had this explained to me as the leaders do not need to discuss with the common rabble anything, whatever we are told is what we deserve to be told and the rest is best served for people above your pay-grade, and I agree to an extent. Would you rather an extremely long winded explanation that the family members of the now-departed will never be happy with in the first place? Why do you, a mobster, some random guy who should be doing all he can for his crew because its good pay and something you should be proud to be part of, need to know why a city was taken out?

Sharky flips onto his belly and wiggles his tail for added effect, he isn't exactly sure why he decided to do this, but it helped to break up the monotony of this conversation he has found himself having. Once he is happy with the added effect, he attempts to roll back over but finds that he is now stuck in this new state. 

Uhh... as I was... er... saying, uh... hold on, give me a moment. Hey how strong are you by any chance? Do you think you could, er, roll me back over by any chance? Don't worry, I'm not a biter... well, while I wait for you to help out, I'll continue with my spiel, just try not staring at my ass too much, it is kind of a sore spot. I promise I've been working out lately.

Completely forgetting what he was talking about he soon remembers and starts to speak again, waiting for the man to help push him back over right side up. He'll never understand why he does the things he does.

Anyways, my, uh, point was that perhaps it is not laziness that keeps the leaders from gracing you with their presence and explaining what had happened, but rather the fact that they're just trying to be discreet. Discretion in this line of work is a very common thing and I'd say that having a leader which doesn't run out and spout his mouth to explain away his actions is probably a better leader in some regards than those who spend hours trying to dissect exactly why they had done what they did. So, hey, about helping me back on my feet? I'm still kind of waiting here...

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Well lets just get straight to it. This is longevity when you are at the top your goal is to stay at the top sometimes you just kill someone to stop a threat from becoming a threat , sometimes you kill someone out of boredom , you kill someone to flex your gun or past grudges and sometimes you have an actual good reason for killing someone.

Lets be honest here though sometimes reasons are just dug up or something is held against you until more reasons come up to take you out. But backlash always come with reasoning whether it be from a handful or the masses sometimes putting up a reason is just not worth the hassle.

The reasons could come in days maybe the godfathers and crew leaders who helped are making sure the thread is just right and they are properly getting their reason out so everyone can best understand it.

but at the end of the day does a reason even really matter? Sure it's a nice thing to know why you died but really all that truly matters is you're dead they're still alive and your son/daughter has to worth their way up from the bottom again and try to live longer.

Sometimes no reason is best at all mystery is sometimes nice and you can use your brain and come up with your own reasons amongst yourself or kin of the fallen to come up with your own reasons as to why you died.

No reason , shitty reason , the news is on its way , no news is ever coming 

Who cares , you're dead.

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"Why do you, a mobster, some random guy who should be doing all he can for his crew because its good pay and something you should be proud to be part of, need to know why a city was taken out?" - LandShark

On the flipside, I am one of the biggest contributors to my family. I am always willing to help my bosses out if needed, I tow their line and not my own. Why shouldn't I be informed? If I am ever going to learn from other people's mistakes then I could do with being 'in the know' when a whole city has to feel the repercussions of it. Or am I just a 'cash cow' to my family and city? Am I not deserving of being able to grow via knowledge? How am I ever going to earn my button if I cannot even be trusted with information regarding a whole city's visit to the morgue? The fact that I don't know, does this mean I am not trusted and should be worried for my own life? Are no doors open for me here? I'm feeling pretty demoralised and de-motivated already.

Discretion is a very common thing in this line of work, but when the entire world knows who killed whom (whom killed whom?) I don't see the harm it giving a reason as discretion has fallen well out of the window. Curtis and Tetley have already proven they're not afraid to 'tell it straight', so having to avoid complicated issues is something neither of them has to worry about.

This is why explanations should be given, Sir. Left to their own devices, a mobster's mind can run amok with insignificant and muddled up facts and theories.

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Sliding a freshly baked cookie from out of his pocket and biting into it, swallowing the cookie whole he pulls out his flask and pours crisp cold milk down his throat. With a long sigh and taking a breathe of fresh air he speaks.

 

While I can see on both sides of this as I have met the bullet for false reasons before, I also see the point that a GF/CL really doesn't have to tell us anything at all.  In the mafia life questioning your CL/GF on the reason why a family was killed could have yourself eating a bullet.  Simply put and sad to say every family is "technically" happy when another family falls.  Unless of course that family is in your own district, because who wouldn't want another family on the rise to power gone?

 

Now while I am not saying do not mourn the fallen, simply put the mafia world needs no explanation why a family is removed.  Most families in the mafia were never given a reason to why their or another family was flattened.  I lost friends in LV, but do I need a reason to why they were removed?  No I don't need a reason I have faith in the higher powers.  I will go pay my respects to their graves and go on about my life knowing that one day to it will end.

 

With that he pulls out another cookie and munches on it, sipping on some milk from his flask he looks to LandShark. "Lets go grab a bite to eat or the casino friend". Helping the LandShark up they head out.

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By "click monkey" I obviously mean like something a mobster who do..

Eye rolls and somersaults and all that street Tom foolery jazz.
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I agree we don't need an explanation, but nevertheless it would be nice for the kin of the fallen to hear the reasons (true or false) from the victors rather than from hushed whispers and rumors. Now, people might get quite militant, but I guess you'll have to accept that. I also think that remaining quiet about a removal reinforced the view that some people hold about a regime being tyrannical.  

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Or simply things aren't rape enough to be anounced untill exploited to the end...

Just a simpleman thought...

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You hit it right on the head with the title. The reason doesn't concern you. Is it nice to get a reason for a takedown or a removal? Yeah sure, even if it's bullshit it's nice to have. But does it have to be given? No, it's their perogative. If your in Detroit and Chicago takes out Los Vegas, whether you have friends there or not it's not your business.

Now some people may not like it and be pissed if you don't give a reason but thats the chance you take.
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What if you're the kin of the fallen though, Sinter? Surely they deserve to be given a reason, whatever bullshit it might contain?

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Nope, Sinter is right. The Reason doesn't concern you. For example, Tony Soprano takes down another crew, lays waste to everyone. The 20 year old Son of Joey Four Fingers approaches Tony and asks why his father was killed... what would be Tony's response?

 

a) Ignore the kid

b) Tell the kid

c) Beat the shit out of the kid and if he's lucky put him in hospital, all the while explaining how maybe his father asked stupid fucking questions

d) Get Sal to take the kid out back, shoot him and bury his corpse somewhere.

e) Be all nice and explain the inner workings of his organization and why he felt that he had to kill the kids father but that he was really sorry he had to do it.

 

If a GF/Don/CL comes out and gives an explanation for a takedown, its out of the goodness of their heart. they are under no obligation to do so. If they come out and say the reason was because they didn't like the brand of cheese the other CL bought, then you just have to accept that answer, because in all probability its the only answer you are getting. Alas, the old addage works here, if you don't like that your father/mother/aunt's brother's girlfriend got wacked, then it is up to you to get to a point where you can do something about it.

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There is a trend that you and others see yourself as your father/mother. And sometimes that's justified, sometimes not. But yes, they don't have to give a reason. But usually it's better for them to give such a reason, even if it's bullshit, because explained tyranny is better than unexplained and silent tyranny, right?

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The original poster had this right from the start; wars are the biggest most emotive part of the game and they are original. In a game that essentially is just a repetition of itself, passing up the opportunity to engage with material that isn't recycled should always be grasped with both hands. 

And yeah, explained tyranny is better than unexplained and silent tyranny every time. Not only does it demonstrate that to my victim and everyone else that they were actually significant enough that I've bothered to make the effort in proffering the explanation at all, but there is also the personal bias I can now inject into the mix to skew the facts to make my course of action seem perfectly reasonable. As the Chinese proverb goes (or at least google tells me that it is a Chinese proverb) "there are three truths; my truth, your truth and then the [actual] truth". Meaning, how I portray events to you as a victor is likely very different to how the victim perceived it or how in reality it was. So if I don't make the explanation for whatever reason, you're free to interpret things however you choose, which I'm sure we can all agree in the case of most people here would be an absolute catastrophe.

Of course, I'm using hypothetical pronouns in the above example and you can rest assured that what I tell you is exactly how something actually happened without any bias whatsoever. Promise.

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I generally like to see a reason though have never had a chance to give one due to my status and lack of experience.  They always say the best lies have a hint of truth which makes some of the reasons believable and gets people active whether heckling, gullible or representing their leader and district.

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I loves a good old fashioned war speech the streets are alive the bitching goes on its the best time to be aware of what has gone on.

But that has not been the case, To many times i have seen crews removed only to see silence to me. That is a slap in the face to those that pay money to better there account i for one want at least a lame assed excuse for a takedown.

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If that person is the one who died the yeah sure a explanation, bullshit or not would be great to have and in the shooters best interests most likely. But they can very well choose not to. This is a free country and you can choose to give a reason or not give one. What people fail to consider most times is that while they are free to choose they are not free from the conciquences of that choice.
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Nobody has disputed that Sinter this is a discussion about speeches if there should or should not be one. We are stateing that we prefer a a speech to the silence that seems to plague this society these days.

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I think that I'd want to explain what happened, make sure everybody was clear on it. Because not knowing breeds rumors, and rumors aren't helpful to anybody.

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