I can't help but agree with StopKillingMe. As many can probably tell I do not venture much out into the streets, so I must rely on other forms of communication to connect with others in the world. Does this make me any less of a leader than my counter-parts who so eloquently grace our streets with speeches and spin stories for our amusement?

The qualities of a strong leader are best shown through those closest to them, and usually take place behind closed doors. There are many people with strong leadership qualities who shy away from the streets and many who speak in the streets that can't be trusted to lead.

But to answer your questions, quite simply, if you want to know what makes a leader great and what sets them apart look to their actions not their words.

It just makes you less.. admirable. If only a bit.

Makes you more admirable in my eyes as shows to me you don't feel the need to run off your mouth every time you get bored and want some attention 

Archy showing up late as usual for debate, he noticed a few familiar faces. He stopped then leant to a light post nearby as he lit a cigarette and listened to the heated conversation as it went on, he took his time then cleared his throat and stepped forward.

"Again, what has been brought up a million times already. I'm sorry Aniki, but why do you think that people should change the way they run their lives just because you get irked by the lack of their street presence?"

Archy shrugs and takes a deep buff from his cigarette then continues

"I am sure they have a lot to do other than just offer a roof for the homeless? some people are just new to this business, need help and guidance, may be that's a crew leader's role. When did street presence start representing our standards anyway? I am sure everyone has their own set of standards that we don't all agree to, but that doesn't mean one can enforce his personal opinions on others."

"You named a few people of great and notorious bloodlines, but at the end of the day, they weren't that vocal in the streets, they weren't active street speakers except when it came to business and business only. I am sure that never tainted repetitions being the great leaders they once were."

Archy takes another deep buff off his cigarette before throwing it on the ground and stepping over it with his shoe.

"Just because I am a leader doesn't mean I am going to stop by every street corner and share my piece on the shit chat being shared, no thank you. I'd rather keep my opinion for something worthy the headache. I agree with Fear, street presence shouldn't represent quality, as the ability to lead has nothing to do with the street presence in my humble opinion, some people might have the ability to sweet talk and impress people in public, but behind the closed doors, they are just so terrible that you would never want to deal with, let alone being part of their families."

Archy tips his hat at @StopKillinhMe

"You're right sir, I've never seen Alcapone making a public speech everytime shit hit the fan and he ended up assaulting one of his rivals. Actually, just because Aniki doesn't care about what someone's personal achievements might be, doesn't mean the rest of the world doesn't either."

Archy then turned to Maedhros

"Who decides what a leader should or shouldn't do? Why do you give yourself the right to judge people? I don't see you in a position to do so. I am sure a lot more opinions will be shared by the time I am finished, and I am also sure, they will only show that the quality of leaders around these shores is totally irrelevant to their street presence. I can tell that I see numerous people participating in nearly every debate with worthless shit, but according to your standards, those people would make a good example for leadership if they were given the chance."

Archy shakes his head and leans back to his light post

 ''Just like how others can't enforce their standards upon others, you can't impose your ideals/standards/opinions on them either, right? I'm sure that our world would be much much better if we all followed your example, Archy.''

• Street presence doesn't represent quality. ✓
• Leading has nothing to do with street presence. ✓
• Can't challenge someone's views because.. reasons. ✓ (Seriously, how am I not in the position to ''judge''? Surely I can share my own.. personal opinions with the masses, just like you and a ton of others are doing?) 
• Attributing  shit to me. ✓

''I've never said those people and their ''shit'', as you like to call it, would make a great leader. And likewise I didn't say having no or a minimal street presence makes you a bad leader. And yes, I would definitely think less of all the leaders and their shiny bold suit if I didn't know who the fuck they were and what they believe in. Weird, right?''

Woodpond listens intensely going discussion in the streets.

I myself am not very strong on the streets. Would i argue that you need atleast a minimum amount of street presence to be known as a "Great" Leader? No i wouldn't you do need bare minimum. As a leader myself though, I do a lot behind the scenes. May not seem like it to most but most leaders do a lot behind the scenes.

Now being a bold suit and actually getting there. Well i myself worked as hard if not harder than some of the others in my district. IvanRomanov seen this work and i was asked simple really. Hard work pays off and no im not strong in the street like i should be.

Should i come to these streets more? Theoretically yes i should. In all fairness most of the things said on these streets are misconstrued and flipped around like the person who said it is a bad person.

Yeah Maedhros, but you have a thing to always twist my words, I wasn't enforcing my personal opinion on anyone, unlike some others who participated in this debate, but hardly stating that what was said earlier about leadership and quality was not totally correct. It's my opinion, take it or leave I don't give a fuck. But I didn't try to set a rules nor standards on how to rate other people's work.

Again, I don't know if it's something about me or what that makes you think that whenever I am talking around a street corner I am addressing you. Yeah, you can share your opinion, but you can't say that all the leaders have no quality in them because they don't appear much in the streets (again it wasn't your words and I wasn't talking to you, but I think you like thinking that you have my attention when you don't).

One more time, why do you think that the world revolves around you? It doesn't, you are not the center of the universe. 

And vice versa. 

Your statements regarding earlier comments about leadership and quality is your opinion. Thus you're, in a way, setting a standard yourself. But please, we're in the streets. If we're not setting a standard, judging or well.. debating about it, then what the fuck are we doing here?

I don't know what your obsession with me is either, really. And uhm.. We CAN ''judge'' people not having street presence, it has been done in the past, it will be done in the future, as it should be. Unless you plan to crack down on individual opinions, of course.

I sure do love the occasional ''word sparring''. And again, you are busy thinking for me.. Can I get a check mark here? Yes, thank you!

Archy notices a young fella walking by and stopping to say his piece, he smiled and nodded.

I see you have used Godfather Curtis' words, it can't get more truthful. But again the representation shouldn't be limited to one aspect of communication when you can get to know people through more than one way. You're right Mr Tiller, every word leaves a certain impact, whether it's in public or not.

Scott-Weiland steps through the crowd and approaches Aniki, extending his hand for a friendly shake.
 

As Godfather Fear has stated, this topic has been brought to the forefront in these streets if not once than a dozen times. Originality! Alas, I would like to give my views. 

In your opinion, should a Leader report to the streets with every internal happening in his/her family? For instance, if I'm running a training seminar to assist new mobsters in ways to survive in this world, should I run to the streets and scream about it for the world to hear? Or, should I adhear to Omerta and keep it within the family? Should I run to the streets with every little thing that I bring to my family?

You stated "Why bother donning that bold suit if you bring nothing of value to "La Cosa Nostra"?"

If I am, within my Headquarters doors, nurturing and building my recruits, enabling them to reach the maximum of their potential, isn't that bringing something to La Cosa Nostra? Why should I come to the Streets and tell the world how well my associates are performing? For that matter, when they are not performing well, should I return to the Streets for a public shaming? No, I should pull them to the side ask them what's going on, ask them what they need help with, and utilizing the tools and other members that I have, help them to improve as a mobster. 

Now, all of this isn't to say that leaders should never come to the streets and that announcements such as "Family xx has been informed of protection order xx" is a waste of time, because it is. Leaders should have a street presence, but that isn't what it's all about. Leaders should be able to give their opinion, much in the way that I am now. However, that is not the barameter that Leaders should be held to. If you come out and sound like a complete idiot, then yeah there may be an issue. If you come out and make an effort, then you are making yourself known. The legacy that you leave behind, is the impression you make within your family. How will your associates and members remember you, and your family? Will they remember you pushing them and helping them to reach their heights? 

"How do you stand out from the rest of us, besides that suit? What do you even do to label yourself a "leader"?"

If you cannot tell from earlier, how I stand out doesn't matter. I nurture my associates, I teach them. I help them along. I have goals for them, just the same that I have goals for myself. I never ask for my members and associates to do more than I'm personally capable of. I personally feel that I shouldn't have to make that a public declaration, but here we are. What do I do to label myself a "leader"? That's the simplest question of all, I lead. I lead my members and I lead my associates. 

Before I depart, I depart with a question; How does Street Presence determine whether a leader has the ability to "get people going"? 

Britney is casually strolling down the streets singing a random song in her head, it is something that she usually does pretty much all the time when she comes across some guy yapping about something. He seemed pretty adamant on what he was talking about so Britney decided to hear what he had to say. She stopped and looked around at the people in the crowd, finding a couple of fellow Corktowners. She walked over to the group said her quick hellos, stood there listening to what this guy was talking about.

The guy on the podium finished yammering on, Britney sat back watching... well listening to everyone saying their piece on the matter. There was a brief silence in crowd, was the perfect time for Britney to stand up and voice her opinion.

"Ok, so first off let's talk about the street presence. This seems like a topic that is always floating around in some aspect or another, there are tons of people out there that feel the need for crew leaders to be extremely active in the streets but my question is why do they need to be? Why do they need to appease the masses? Is it just to make you feel good that the leaders of this land tell you what they feel and what they plan on doing? Is it any of your business what a leader other then your own does?  The obvious answer is NO they don't have to make you happy by frolicking through out the streets. (Now for all the leaders out there don't take offense to this) Perhaps the main issue is that you have just picked shitty leaders, or perhaps your a shitty member. Anything is possible."

"Now I will be the first to tell you I myself enjoy being in the streets and the business districts. I have noticed that the quality floating around has been quite poor, more times then not anymore people enter the streets just to get "brownie points" but that is a completely other topic."

"You can't judge a leader on what they do or don't do around the masses. It's all about what they do behind their HQ doors and that is no ones business but theirs and their members."

Britney stops talks looking around at all the eyes on her, she starts singing again finding her happy place once again.

Slightly annoyed by Aniki's remark about the monkeys Weebl moved forward through the people. 

"I understand your words, Aniki, but I do not share your worries. There's a lot of assumption in what you bring to the streets, which surprises me. Your words indicate that your bloodline has walked these streets for quite sometime, surely you'd have a bit more understanding of how things actually work here?"

Weebl glanses at Aniki's kneecaps and he thinks of the wooden bat he left behind in the car.

"You are entitled to your questions though, so let me, as another lazy money-grabbing nobody, address your worries from my point of view."

"First off, you wonder what crewleaders bring to the table that others don't. It's fairly simply to state that bosses have been around longer, have worked for more hours, achieved more cash, build more influential relationships, achieved more experience in the current day and age to base decisions of and they gained the trust of their Godfathers and fellow leaders. No one states that creleaders are better characters, have better ideas or are more capable, but in general they proved a lot more then many others in their current lifetime."

Weebl is reaching for a pack of cigarettes, only to remember he doesn't smoke. He seems to be behind a step with the latest trends. He SHOULD come to the streets more often.

"Next, you want to know how it's possible that leaders don't have bright ideas and why they don't visibly lead this society to greater heights.
Well, it is true that many of the decisions that have been made haven't been discussed here on the streets. But you could have seen the slight changes in details of your family or city operations, you coud've seen takedowns and you could've seen families move to other cities, which they are actively building to great places. The people in power decide on these matters for the greater good of our society. It's not something that suddenly happens. Leading happens at the front and if you're walking at the back, you don't see what happens at the front. You just follow with the decisions once you are briefed on them. Show you are a wise person, show involvement and you'll be walking closer and closer to the front each day."

"Yeah, but that's just the standard stuff that should happen! - I hear you say." Weebl continues.
"True, but then we arrive at my next point that this isn't a progressive society. We do our best, but majority of our population finds it hard to take risks, to adapt, to walk on new paths. Perhaps we care too much about our safety, that we rather chose dull lives then go for exciting things. Perhaps we lack the imagination to really appreciate and believe in new ideas. Take the LA project, a fine chance for all of you who wish to do things differently... but it sits with an empty district. Are there no more people who believe in their own capabilities and dare to shape their own future? Or remember when TonyCapazzo and his trusted members where overheard talking on how they cleaned house with some lesser active members? A lot of people were suddenly hurt that things changed because someone showed creativity in their handling. To be honest, supporting your concerns, I once tried to debate that bigger cities should split up, so new leaders, like myself, could less easily stand in the shadow of the bigger brothers. No one addressed that idea. That might be the reason that I suck at public speaking, but it could well be that we can't cope with real change. When Ford had invented the car, he once said to a journalist "if I asked my customers what they would want, they'd ask for a faster horse.". That is not that long ago, and I'm afraid we as a society aren't much different then Ford's customers. Hell, we are his customers. Leaders are more then capable of putting forth ideas, but they also recognize when a society is ready to adapt ideas. The fact that we as a society aren't up for big changes is part of the reason why you don't constantly see ideas here."

Weebl sees one his consigliere's make a gesture from across the opening where the debate takes place and remembers he has other business to attend to.

"Don't get me wrong, Aniki. This is a beautiful place, that deserves our ideas, inspiration and all. But in practice I've seen it working at best in personal matters. Guiding my family members to exceed expectations. Taking care of pressing matters with fellow leaders or participating in meetings in one of the coffeeshops. I wish the streets would be more lively as well, and I agree that I should try to boost it as well. But you are so wrong that leaders don't lead, that they don't inspire and that they don't bring something extra to the table."

Hearing a lot of commotion from around the corner Afghan decides to take a closer look. When he approaches he sees quite a few angry faces and asks what exactly is going on. After getting the gist of what was actually happening he decides to say his piece. 

"I've had a lot of great leaders, some have been mentioned here some have even spoke here. I've also had a lot of shitty leaders as well, people that never talk to you, aren't willing to help, only ask for money and work from you with nothing to even give in return not even a friendly hello. But by far the worst leaders I have had are leaders I can never even get the chance to talk to. Being ignored is one thing but when your "leader" is always on vacation somewhere around the country instead of doing their job at head quarters what's the point? If a war were to break out you have a very good chance of having to take things in your own hands which is not how this works. I could give a fuck less if they come out into the streets and try to strike up some new conversation or argument that hasn't been touched upon a million times over much like this topic, who really cares? It seems to be only you, there are a million other things you should be focusing on."

Afghan shakes his head and walks off.

"Now that my blood pressure is through the roof I need to fucking smoke."

Well.. Getting straight to the point, leaders have much more to offer than just a roof over the head of those they lead. I can only assume you are happy with your CL, why? Because he is a leader and performs as such. You're judging everything you know about the current leaders based on... How often you see them in the streets? 

By your logic, leaders are lazy because they don't speak in the streets. I ask you.. What should we talk about? Member whoring, street presence, the rank of Made Man, or some other topic that is discussed on a weekly basis and results in arguing or some other form of no progress. Uninspiring? How would you know? Oh, that's right.. Because some of us don't feel the need to spend most of our time talking to the masses.  

Oh, let us not forget how little we bring to the table for this same reason. What table? Your table? I'm not worried about your table... How would you know if I "get people going" or not? If the leaders that are less active became more active, would that really matter to you? Leaders are leaders, I understand what they do daily. Some leaders speak in the streets and it doesn't change my opinion on their leadership. Why? I have never felt that your ability to speak in the streets has any impact on how good or bad of a leader one is.

Did it ever occur to you that we're not all out to make this glorious name for ourselves? There is more to life than being a "legend." I am much more focused on helping my family, my district, and my city grow as opposed to gathering the opinions of people who I don't even know. Some people know me, some people don't.. If people want to get to know me.. They know where to find me. I don't need to speak to the masses to know people. My door is always open for discussion. 

Personally, I feel I do bring to a bigger picture.. Us leaders have a different perspective on what the bigger picture is. Our families, our districts, our cities, our allies. What is your big picture? The streets? Sorry, I have other obligations that come first.

My final question to you... Why should I care what you think? Do I owe you a service to try and adjust to your every hue and cry?

They're the people running around who look almost 'boldish'.

Glad I could help clear that up for you. 

*nods*

I think it's amusing that (most) leaders who have talked here have used the old ''Why should I care/listen to what you think?''. Observation, suggestions and criticism can come from everywhere. Personally I wouldn't take it as an order or command, but rather a strong suggestion, an urged one. They don't have to listen and adjust to ''every hue and cry'', but what's the streets worth if everyone questions the need to listen to one another?

Maedhros I quite agree with you. Regardless of who, where, or in what terms a criticism or idea is raised it always merits some exploration. To complete dismiss someone's idea is counter-productive to change, and above all else change is the driving force behind everything we do.

Not every idea merits change and some are flat out ridiculous. But if we as leader are not willing to listen to the hue and cries of those we protect then what good are we?

"I am sure they have a lot to do other than just offer a roof for the homeless? some people are just new to this business, need help and guidance, may be that's a crew leader's role. When did street presence start representing our standards anyway? I am sure everyone has their own set of standards that we don't all agree to, but that doesn't mean one can enforce his personal opinions on others."

Archy - No, they don't and that sort of role can easily be delegated. Although I know some leaders like to be more hands on, I am sure this doesn't take up the entire time they are awake. Street presence started representing your standards a very very long time ago. Yes everyone has their own set of standards, but you are wrong, one can enforce their personal opinions on others, much like the current regime are now.

As for your comments on not stopping by to address every discussion out here, I don't expect you to, however I do expect some level of interaction and I do expect you to compose yourself well while out here. I disagree though, those who are usually gifted at talking in the street usually gather quite a following and rarely find themselves being "terrible and nobody wanting to join them".

Speaking of Al Capone is unrealistic but while we're at it let's address it. I doubt Al Capone would come out to a street and share stories in regards to why people were killed, let alone admitting the thing at all. I doubt Al Capone would have proposed to his sweetheart in public and called upon others to witness this spectacle. I doubt Al Capone would announce the rules and regulations behind the criminal activity over in LA. I doubt Al Capone would announce the minutes from the Godfather Commission. So please, don't throw that nonsense into this discussion when as I say, it's unrealistic. 

Scott-Weiland - I do not expect a daily update on your family comings and going, I do expect leaders to stand out and make themselves known to the rest of us. It is a standard set by all to help your members, those that don't will often find themselves dead. I also expect that when they speak out here in the street, their words carry some weight and people take note. A legacy isn't left by affecting a small group of people, its left by affecting a large number of people.

"How does Street Presence determine whether a leader has the ability to "get people going"?"

Quite simple really, it allows you to get your members out onto the street to support their leader, district, city.

You can't judge a leader on what they do or don't do around the masses

Britney-Spears - Erm, yes you can? If a leader comes out here and is a complete retard then yes, you can be sure they will be seen as one. 

The "We do a lot behind closed doors line" seems to be thrown around a lot but how often in the day do you find yourself with free time on your hands? Sure, helping new guys is honourable but if you structured your family in the right way this needn't be your concern. I mean why bother with the sponsorship and associates if your sponsors aren't actually acting out their role? If you want to leave a legacy, as I'm sure most of you do, then you need to do more than just shoot the shit around your own HQ and help a few less able mobsters.

Britney listens as Aniki begins to speak again, she politely lets him finish.

"Now Aniki, I think you took that line out on context. I wasn't stating the content of what a leader says in the streets, if a leader comes out and acts like a retard then yeah it will be used against them. What I was referring to was actually being out in the streets..."

Britney shakes her head and rolls her eyes