Why the double standard on consequences when it comes to people who shoot those that are under a protection order? Why is it important enough for some to lose their lives for killing a protected, and not for others that commit the same offense? From the time a protection order is put into place, to the moment it ends, everyone across the board should be held accountable in the same way..I caught a statement earlier, and no one even asked for the WS, Several  others were killed and a request for info went out, the were found and dealt with swiftly, but i've seen a couple where nothing was done..

Why does every punishment have to be death?

There's an answer in the form of a question.

I have to agree with KevinOwens (aside from the obvious bias I have towards his opinion) here. I don't think there's is any uniform rule that dictates the punishment when a protection order is broken. I don't even think there is a consensus on what should be done. I guess you bring up a good discussion though. I personally believe either death or demotion should be brought down upon the offender, and perhaps financial sanctions in some circumstances, but much rather the first two options. 

Kevin, we may actually disagree on this. 

I feel if you are going to post out in the open a "protection order"  and openly request (mail all upper structure) for WS then all punishments and or investigations should be handled the same. 

Don't get me wrong, a leader should be able to punish how they see fit. BUT certain aspects of SunshineRainbowsReturns.com, I meant MafiaReturns.com have become so washed over and lazy you forfeit your ability to handle things behind closed doors or as you see fit.

The situation Chun_Li speaks about is about one of my members breaking the protection order Tommy_Slippers.

They had never messed up once before, always towed the line and donated heavily to my family... they also admitted their mistake instantly and showed instant remorse in apologising to me when questioned over it.

This person shot someone who although tagged was inactive for the best part of SIX weeks and had his previous crewleader (Sovereign) had the time, would've been dead quite soon due to his inactivity (I asked Sov about him, that was his response).

The deceased still had 5 units after 37 days being alive, had sent 8 mails and posted nothing anywhere, ever.

If you're going to kick the drive someone who contributes so much to this family and to the game in general for making a genuine mistake killing someone who is never going to show their face here again,  then that's on your head. I'm not going to do that.

Oh I should also note.. they were demoted 3 ranks back to Wise Guy, lost their DFP and lost their gun. Not enough punishment for an IA? Gimme a break.

I wasn't talking about one isolated incident KO ( although your punishment seems fair ) Mine is more to the way things are done now. 

Protection Orders go Up (agree or disagree) 

Witness requests are mass mailed with no personal networking and or touch 

Because of the blanket way things are done now, the expectation is that everyone responds the same blanket way as well. 

Personally I prefer a more networked and personal touch, thus allowing for behind closed door punishments or rewards etc. 

I can't see why you can't still have punishment exacted by the leader after the perpetrator has been caught through the use of a mass-mailed witness statement request. If it's kept within reason of course, like demotion or death. I do believe that the majority of leaders dislike centralized rules about this kind of stuff (through a GFC for example), or so I was told. 

Salazar its not about what should be or could, its about perception. When things are mass mailed and handled in a blanket manner, your are victim to the perception of what should be done based on others actions to similar crimes.

You are only a ''victim'' if you choose to be one. Or you can be original, and shed the concept of one-size-fits-all when it comes to leadership and punishment. If people that matter (the slanties and bolds among us) don't like that, maybe they should finally come up with some sort of Godfather Commission/Council Rules to solve this problem? If they don't then that is on them and no-one should be forced to bow to some unwritten rules.

"You are only a ''victim'' if you choose to be one." Uhm thats not true, the term itself dictates the Someone Else forced something upon you. You can choose to put yourself in situations that make it harder to be victimized yes, but it doesn't mean you will always be safe. 

In this case we are talking about perception, which you can some what control but are always at the discretion of those around you. 

Indeed, but you aren't forced anything here unless you budge yourself. Maybe more personal initiative, creativity and leadership for a change? :)

If we are to respond the same way with punishments across the board, then how about we start promoting people for the same things across the board?

If you're going to say that a Consig deserves the same death that a three day old goomba does, then in my opinion, you are quite wrong. Someone who is brand new in our way of things and fucks up isn't the same as someone who has been around for most of your own life and done far more.

By this way of thinking then, someone who is an earner, but doesn't care to shoot, should have to shoot to earn their ranks. Or someone who only cares to shoot you are telling them that they haven't earned their button because they aren't earning as much.

No. For every single case and every person things are handled differently.

Yes, there is special treatment for someone who has EARNED their way up the family. Why in the hell would you ever deem a Don, Consig, or Boss to be worth the same as a Gangster or Goomba.

You may think nothing was done, but every single account brought to my attention was handled. Like a demotion, which means you lose your units and your gun. You have to once again rank back up and do all the work all over again. If they were already too young to really even demote, then they were killed.

And the Godfather council was already denied. No one wanted it. Each city is to govern their own how they wish.

Duplicity, 

I am not saying I want it one way or the other. Me personally to each his own, I follow the rules set forth by those I work for so I do not have to worry.. 

My statement was about perception and opening yourself to being a victim of that. This is OOC so in part we are discussing mechanics that impact the game. The mechanic of a "Mass Mail" that is then forwarded to "Mass Mail" means everyone see's the blanket statement for a witness. Everyone then can see the punishment, so in kind perception will form based on how some handle certain crimes versus others. 

This can be avoided by direct personal contact from Liason to Liason or CL to CL etc. Instead of Mass Mailing that will inevitably be forwarded on as is with out much comment other than "Mass Mail See Below"

So you are saying to personally mail every single person to try and find who shot who? Maybe personally mail people if they send you the Witness Statement and you don't need to search high and low for it, but normally you aren't lucky enough to receive it like that or quickly.

I was responding to Chun_Li here who feels people are having double standards, not so much to you. Sorry for the confusion.

No, 

That would be a head ache and most would ignore etc. But lets say you for example Mail the other "City Heads" looking for a WS you are not Mass Mailing you are mailing 5 other leaders. Whether they help or not up to them, if they do perhaps their structure is set up to collect all WS not Durden, RIA, Rogue, MIA related. They ask the person over that bank of information and get back to you. Now the entire site has not been alerted and the blanket nature of WS collected is a mute issue. 

The same thing can be done by simply NOT forwarding that initial email on to the next level, next level, next level. To be fair, in what Mafia Organization would a letter from a City Head be forwarded down and forwarded down for everyone to see in every district and city?

People forward it because it is easier than writing up a whole new letter looking for it. I know I for one am mostly on my phone. I play from work a lot. Granted writing up a new message is a nice touch and could help from people knowing who is actually looking for it, but it isn't exactly convenient for all.

You can call it lazy or easy. Yet, people more so are just trying to quickly get it out and found. So any seconds wasted by writing up a new mail could spare another life. Who's to say this person who shot isn't going rogue? 

There are a lot of factors. I am not saying adding that new touch would or wouldn't be nice, but I can understand why people just forward and forward and forward.

If this game was truly like the mafia then a lot of things would be different. Like someone coming into OOC saying leaders run double standards, they wouldn't be able to freely do that if we had this like the mafia. There wouldn't even be an OOC forum, etc. People would always be in character. We just won't touch that.

Hi. Can we rewind a little bit?

If we are to respond the same way with punishments across the board, then how about we start promoting people for the same things across the board?

If you're going to say that a Consig deserves the same death that a three day old goomba does, then in my opinion, you are quite wrong. Someone who is brand new in our way of things and fucks up isn't the same as someone who has been around for most of your own life and done far more.

Promoting people for the same things is what generally happens? There are certain things that will give you the impression these people should be made. I would have thought anyway?

Does a Consig deserve the same death as a Goomba? As a Consigliere you have sworn an oath to follow your leaders orders, to know right from wrong and not be an idiot.

As a Goomba you haven't, you're fresh and trying to make a name for yourself.

Now admittedly mistakes happen. I get that. But a Consig not following a simple protection order? Yeah. I would expect that from a Goomba. But from a consig? I'd be asking some more serious questions.

A rank is important round here. Everyone knows that. But with rank comes responsibility and killing someone incorrectly is generally quite a big deal.

I can see the deal with the angle of family contribution. But at what point does that take a back seat? You can easily discredit a Goomba as new and inexperienced. With a Made Man? Perhaps not so much? I mean. A Made Man is supposed to be an extension of yourself? A representation of your family. Thats not a good impression made, is it?

I just find it interesting when things like this are said. Always worth asking a question I find..?

Actually, upon joining crews everyone signs the rules. That means everyone says they are agreeing to not shoot things they shouldn't. Goomba and Don alike.

So no I won't hold them to the same standards.

I also don't believe I am promoting the same as Doll is or the same as Eredin. I promote off of each person's forte. Not a set rule. Others require tons of earnings, etc.

So I don't know when we all started promoting the same way? Any family I have been in has been different.

Surely if you are going off them signing the rules. You are holding them to the same standard? Just you'd expect a Made member to completely understand them and a Goomba to be a little more green?

What I meant with my comment in regards to Made Man promotions was that in your mind something will register. Something will make you feel they deserve to be made. It will likely be something reasonably similar?

I have misunderstood your 'across the board' comment. I thought you meant in your own crews. Not across the entire population. Apologies.