Jan 15, '10 07:03 You witnessed Panda whore Himself. *He liked it*

Pffft Boss, you know I only whore myself for you and the betterment of our Family and the City of New Orleans.

I'm not sure whether your example is hypothetical or not, so if it is I apologise in advance.

If it's not hypothetical, I cannot quite articulate how upset I am. Whilst you have blanked out the name of the family in question. there is one organisation in our thing that dubs itself an outfit, and they do their business in my city.

If you are truly concerned by the recruitment policies in our city,

the responsible thing to do would have been to approach any number of senior figures in Chicago. That is how we do business. Instead, you shout a sensationalist esposé for all to hear.

What am I to assume? Do you have an agenda against Chicago here, or why else would I have found out about this in the public domain rather than through private discussion? Or perhaps you don't fully realise the duties of your position when you embarked upon this irresponsible act. Maybe you don't really care about the issue at all, and just wanted to get your name known with a controversial debate.

Or maybe I'm just overreacting.

Don't get me wrong, I'm as serious about member whoring as the next person, but I feel just here it pales into insignificance when compared to what I perceive to be a flagrant breach of ómerta.

"What am I to assume? Do you have an agenda against Chicago here, or why
else would I have found out about this in the public domain rather than
through private discussion? Or perhaps you don't fully realise the
duties of your position when you embarked upon this irresponsible act.
Maybe you don't really care about the issue at all, and just wanted to
get your name known with a controversial debate."

I fully realize the duties of my position, and I don't feel there is any need for you to question those. Also, if I didn't care about the topic, I wouldn't have come to the streets and given a passionate speech about how I felt, and worked to facilitate a productive discussion. The fact of the matter is, I've already had some very serious behind the scenes discussions with some of the leaders of our world since this debate was spawned, and am trying to do my part in solving what I feel is a serious issue. As you can see, 3 of our Godmothers/Godfathers have already sounded off on the topic, as have a handful of other city leaders. I think that says something for how much people do care about what is going on in regard to recruiting practices/member whoring.

I'd also like to quote myself, prior to the example I cited.

"Upon his arrival on these shores, he was hit with a barrage of

requests, asking him to join other outfits, without even so much as

getting to know him."

The term "outfits" here, refers to multiple organizations in our world, so it certainly isn't singling any one "outfit" out. In the past, I've referred to my organization as an "outfit" in discussions with people. In any event, this topic wasn't brought up to trash city A or city B, it was to raise a productive discussion about recruiting practices. If you take it as a personal pot shot (which is isn't), I'm sorry you feel that way.

What I will divulge, is that the first blank was the name of the person, and the second blank was the city the individual was being asked to join.

There are 8 cities in our world, each with a handful of outfits/organizations/syndicates operating within them. You can guess all you want, but you won't see me bringing the names of those people here to the streets.

Again, the purpose here isn't about trashing the people who sent these requests/invites, it is about the practice that is being carried out that is simply unacceptable in my eyes, and in the eyes of others.

What I won't do is sit idly by and have the status quo "this is how it has always been attitude, so just deal with it". Whether or not this discussion brings about change is still to be determined, but at least at the end of the day I can say I made an effort to stop a practice that is spitting in the face of what the mafia is all about.

Doing nothing, in my opinion, is a flagrant breach of ómerta.

Whether or not this discussion brings about change is still to be determined

Corky, whilst I am glad that this discussion here has brought the issue back to the fore in the public domain....as I said in my first response yesterday, this is something that had already been instigated between the city heads. As I also said then, finding a suitable solution may take time and if these discussions I refer to are anything to go by, then it most definitely will. I'm not saying you are, but it shouldn't be presumed that this situation hadn't been noticed or that there was no motivation to broach the "recruitment" situation.

"Corky, whilst I am glad that this discussion here has brought the issue
back to the fore in the public domain....as I said in my first response
yesterday, this is something that had already been instigated between
the city heads. As I also said then, finding a suitable solution may
take time and if these discussions I refer to are anything to go by,
then it most definitely will. I'm not saying you are, but it shouldn't
be presumed that this situation hadn't been noticed or that there was
no motivation to broach the "recruitment" situation."

I appreciate the comments you made on the topic, as does anyone else who came to listen. As you, and others on the inside of the discussion  have alluded to, this is an issue that is going to take significant time to eventually solve. I saw the work the Godmothers and Godfathers did to change the viewpoint on killing -48 gangsters, and that is encouraging for this situation.

I know this speech has been made, and these very same discussions have been had not only in the streets, but behind the scenes. I look forward to the day the Godfathers/Godmothers come out and reveal a unified stance on how to curtail this kind of behavior.

It may not be soon, but it is good to know that people are hard at work on ensuring that business in our cities and among the syndicates that reside in them will continue to be done properly going forward.

Corky I doubt our esteemed Super Jew is the only person to think that you were referring to The CrackerJack Outfit when you initially brought this subject to the street.

I certainly read your cited example a few times and it fairly clearly indicated to me and others that you were referring to the family run by Super Jew's son.

I can but assume from your later comments that you didn't mean this family. Could you clear that up for us all please.

That large cow in New Orleans and I have made similar speeches in the past.  All these speeches have and will continue to fall on deaf ears.  Nobody of any consequence has determined that responding to this member whoring is necessary. 

The only way to effectuate any change, is to take some action.  Talking about it out here does nothing. 

I've brought this topic up to the crew that runs New York.  I am hopeful that these discussions will be fruitful, and change will happen.  I really don't want to be here if this doesn't change. 

All these speeches have and will continue to fall on deaf ears.  Nobody of any consequence has determined that responding to this member whoring is necessary.

Will, if you've listened to this whole discussion, or infact my latest comment, you will realise that this is not accurate. Taking action is the way forward, but what that action is remains to be seen (and discussed between the cities).

I will echo Boaby's words. This debate is a way forward to bring much needed light to this matter, even though this is a redundant debate. However, every time it gets brought to the forefront we may have different leadership at the helm in the cities. So at some point were bound to run into leadership that is willing to do something about this "Whoring" matter.

In my mind I know that there is no way to actually prevent whoring unless the consequences are dire. But say even with the most harshest of punishments, how would we actually Justifiably enforce this? When someone shoots a -48 a W/S goes out, but when a CL whores it doesn't. The only other way perhaps is looking at the growth rate of a particular Cl's family, but even at that how do u determine if he was a more "successful" whore compared to the one who tried and failed miserably. Additional, the only other proof that you can get is perhaps the members that are being whored, speaking up. But would we (as a community as a whole) listen to a squeaking thug over the words of a CL that say's he hasn't done anything wrong? I guess we can have some possible mock accounts that just wonder around and die and there only job is to pick up the whore mails...but can we actually do that?

Over the last few days I have been wondering the streets listening to these debates.  As most of you are aware I have been recently given the honor of setting up in Chicago.  FIA is looking for new civilians that wish to join this thing of ours but my people know NOT to just send blind invites or even mail that simply reads "hey wanna join?"  I don't tolerate nor will I ever tolerate this type of recruiting.  I do however have mixed emotions on the matter.  I hear most of the "seasoned mobsters" ie. those that have been round for ages, speak of the way things used to be.  The civilians right off the boat were NOT approached by anyone.  They had to search out crews to join.  I love this idea but I am afraid that there is really no way for us as a community to monitor this.

One comment made was we could just watch those that are born and see if they instantly go to a crew.  Well yes, this will work for the most part but you will always have those "next of kin" returning and instantly going to their forefathers family or city, as well you will have those recruited from another country such as 90% of my crew at this moment.  

I did however like one idea someone brought up and that being that a -48 is unable to join a family till he's -24.  That gives a civilian 24 hours to figure these streets out as well as get a feel for the crews, and the CLs of each of the cities.  Granted this is something we would need to ask of the gods.  I just don't see a way for the community to police this practice.

This is merely a suggestion, and I am unsure as to if some form of it may be in effect already, but I will voice it either way.

A small force of mafioso, from varying organisations could take it upon themselves to look deeper into things such as Obit activity, family growth and generally flag signs of Whoring in process. Accusations are regulary made by new mobsters coming to our shores, about them being "whored". Should a family show signs of these things, combined or not, that a close eye be kept on them, and if these practices continue over a period of time we can safley assume that they could quite possibly be one of the families "whoring". Action against families found to be showing a high amount of evidence of "whoring" is down to the leaders of this world.

Although this could create alot of work for the small group of Mafioso monitoring these things, It would at last put this issue to rest. With such passion being shown on this subject, I'm sure that finding a group willing to take on this responsibility should not be too hard to find.

Families under scrutiny, if they were or were not infact whoring, are even less likely to whore.

"Genius is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent perspiration."

- Leo

The civilians right off the boat were NOT approached by anyone.  They had to search out crews to join.  I love this idea but I am afraid that there is really no way for us as a community to monitor this.

You will never be able to monitor every single invite, nor would I want to. However, this worked in the past because people knew there were repercussions if they were caught approaching thugs. Every case wasn't punished, of course not, but the risk of being caught - which happens - was a good deterrent for the most part. The sad thing is that of course you get people who genuinely are interested in helping/guiding/training new mobsters, but they are often lost in the haze of those who are after nothing but the head count before moving on. As I said earlier, this isn't a great environment for someone to flourish under, even if they do have potential, and they can consequently fall away.

El_Nino, I believe Corky already clarified that he was not singling out any one city over the other, and certainly was not taking shots at chicago. He was simply stating what others already have as well regarding the issue of member whoring.

"The term "outfits" here, refers to multiple organizations in our world,
so it certainly isn't singling any one "outfit" out. In the past, I've
referred to my organization as an "outfit" in discussions with people.
In any event, this topic wasn't brought up to trash city A or city B,
it was to raise a productive discussion about recruiting practices."

As Godfather Kenobi said a in a few of his responses, The Godfather council has discussed this issue after Don Bovine's speech a few weeks ago. This is something that won't be resolved overnight, but it has been brought up and will continue to until we can reach a unified decision that works for the eight cities as a whole.

I do apologize if anyone feels singled out, but it's not just one city that has fallen into the original discussions category. I'm sure at one point or another there has been at least one sponsor in every city who have been involved in this. We can only punish said people accordingly and move on and make sure they don't make the same mistake twice of handing out a blind invite.

I'm pretty new here so I don't know how things worked back in the day but I kind of liked some of the emails I got when I signed up. Some of them had a little story in it and things like that and I think it isn't a bad idea since without the help of those people I would be completely lost and maybe even turned off by the game. There was one email though that was rather...idiotic! As I said most emails had little stories of how the person met me and that they were recruiting and looking out for me but this email was by far the worst thing I have ever seen! I won't say who sent it but I can tell you what this person wrote, and I quote "was good"...I'm not even joking. Anyway I think it is good for newer players like myself but it has to be something better than "was good" lol

Now don't get me wrong when i say this but it's all about money buddy in this world of ar our's money is the key to power for instince if a brand new civalian has enough money he could be more powerfull then the godfathers and mothers the reason he could order hits buy drugs pay people off everyone is goin crazy with the recent need for more power please correct me if im wrong.

Ever heard of the saying to many cooks spoil the broth? I think what the problem here is that there are way to many auths at the moment to suport the needs of the mobsters. I personaly think there should be a limit on how many can set up per city. There are just to many familys after the same member simply to make up the numbers in there family. Its been to long since there has been a 50 man head quaters full, everyone see's a new captain to a city on such a regular basis now which in my opinion is making auth its self look tacky. It used to be a thing of honor and respect and that the person who was selected had done great things to get to where they are, can anyone now say they know who all these auths and captains are and what they have brought or added to the cities in any way? That my friends is a true shame to the mafia.

It should be outlawed COMPLETELY. New players should find their own way, not press- ganged into any number of families by sponsors offering a meagre amount of money to them...but which may seem like an attractive propostion to the new comers. Sponsors who keep offering cash to these new players just to get them into their family HQ should be ashamed of themselves. It should be punishable...and witnessable like murdering another player.

The honoured society needs to come up with a stategy to put an end to the practice for the sake of future generations of players

If you want to successfully recruit, what you do is offer one slice of pizza per recruit.