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The Toleration Of Harassment Started by: Reek on Apr 26, '16 20:02

inb4 "so much salt" "do something about it"

ok so recently 2 current players in our community have admitted to blood lining another player in our community because of who they live with. constant blood lining is seen as harassment of another player as far as i know.

proof was sent to the gods of the admittance to blood lining the character and they were advised by Bunneh that "blood lining is not against the rules" but this begs the question (which Bunneh will not answer)

is harassment against the game rules?

perhaps enkindle or @bunny or squishy could weigh in here as i know this isnt the first time blood lining has happened but as far as i know this is the first time those supporting it have admitted it blatantly and the proof has been sent to the gods

and if harassment is not against the rules why do we have features like ignore mob mails?

this seems to be a grey area to which needs clarification

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Harassment is against the rules, but the reason that mobmail ignore (which you obviously know about) and other such things were introduced were so that people could help prevent the harassment themselves, at which point if a user is still being harassed it can be dealt with on a staff level. You reported bloodlining initially (which is not exactly the same as harassment), and showed us your "evidence" of it, to which you were told there is no rule against bloodlining, which still is the case. You then tried to tell Bunneh that it was in fact harassment.

You were asked to provide evidence of such wrong doings, to which you refused stating that you wouldn't as it "wouldn't make any difference". It still stands that if you can provide evidence of this it will be looked into and dealt with appropriately.

After speaking to the other party involved in your claim and seeing the other part of the 'evidence' that you showed us initially, it was seen that you were taking things enormously out of context in what seems like an attempt at getting us to take action against someone that you personally have an issue with.

However like I said, if you actually have proof of any such rule breaking etc feel free to get in touch. We take these kinds of things very seriously, as we also take false accusations very seriously too.

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blood lining is harassment is what im getting at!

Harassment is a form of discrimination. It involves any unwanted physical or verbal behaviour that offends or humiliates you. Generally, harassment is a behaviour that persists over time. Serious one-time incidents can also sometimes be considered harassment.  

 your discussing two seperate topics btw one where i discussed bloodlining someone for simply living with someone else and the other was a arguement that started on skype and got dragged to IRC where only the IRC evidence was shown because the evidence of previous harassment (blood lining) fell on deaf ears

blood lining is harassment and there for should be against the game rules

im all for banning someone from a city but not essentially the game for simply living with someone that the person or people enforcing the blood lining have a issue with

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"It involves any unwanted physical or verbal behaviour that offends or humiliates you."

 

Since this is what you decided to quote, can you please tell me where this happened? Also show me the conversation in which the verbal behaviour which offended or humiliated occurred.

Like I already said, show us what happened that you constitute harassment and we will gladly look into it for you. However we cannot deal with you doing what you are doing now, posting random things that don't really add up to much.

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blood lining persists over time just like the definition of harassment thus blood lining should be against game rules your not looking at this as the single topic it was meant to be

 

blood lining is ingame harassment that is tolerated by the gods yet you claim harassment is against the rules

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Lol, torture also persists over time are you going to say that bloodlining is also the same as torture? Also really long films persist over time are you going to say that that is bloodlining too purely because of that?

You are literally taking a small piece of a definition and claiming it is the entire definition just so it suits your purposes.

 

"It involves any unwanted physical or verbal behaviour that offends or humiliates you."

If this has not occurred, it is not harassment. End of story. Stop wasting my time.

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by your own reference of torture you wouldnt call torture harassment? could it not be the same as blood lining, im sure the person being bloodlined sees it as "unwanted physical(digital) behaviour"

but yes i would call torture the same as blood lining to be quite honest it is a act of preventing free will over time

but lets try this part then

Harassment is a form of discrimination.

the person is being discriminated against because they live with me

like stated in OP thus this form of blood lining is harassment

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You have given me half-truths from the very start. I have investigated and have been given the full logs - bloodlining/harassment/discrimination there is no evidence that any of this is going on with anyone that lives with you. I have repeatedly asked you for evidence which you have refused to give me. So I have to base my decision on everything I have. As I said on IRC, I will not keep going round in circles with you over this, either provide the evidence to back up your claims or I will no longer spend any of my time on this.  

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Saying harassment is a form of discrimination, and saying that bloodlining is discrimination and linking them that way is a very tenuous link at best. That's like saying running is a form of exercise and rowing is a form of exercise, therefore rowing = running. Ridiculous, isn't it? I am not debating the definition of harassment compared with bloodlining any more with you though.

"It involves any unwanted physical or verbal behaviour that offends or humiliates you."

If this has not occurred, it is not harassment.

If this has occurred (like I have said several times before) show us what happened (in a mobmail to Helpdesk or myself/Bunneh) that you constitute harassment and we will gladly look into it for you. Otherwise, stop wasting my time.

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i have sent you proof of people blood lining the person i live with because they live with me dunno where you lost those screen shots i sent you bunneh

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I was shown the full conversation, not the copy and paste you sent me or the copy that said 'This message has been removed.'.  We will no longer acknowledge your claim about bloodlining as this has already been dealt with. Again in case you missed it - bloodlining does not break site rules and there is no evidence of harassment/discrimination against anyone that lives with you.

You have since moved on to make a serious allegation against another player, but you have refused to back up your claim. I will no longer reply to you about this if you continue to not provide the evidence. 

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and this ladies and gents is why the game has gone downhill, provide proof and they say its no good with this being said i had faith in this game before but not now, not especially after names are changed, proof is thrown by the wayside and people pick and choosewho the rules apply to

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Reek - the "evidence" you provided was pulled ridiculously out of context. We have seen the full conversation and it is nothing remotely like what you keep saying. I did say that, right at the start. Let me show you exactly where I addressed that:

"After speaking to the other party involved in your claim and seeing the other part of the "evidence" that you showed us initially, it was seen that you were taking things enormously out of context in what seems like an attempt at getting us to take action against someone that you personally have an issue with."

 

After this you made a second allegation against a player (do you remember this? If not, I will happily remind you) to which you were asked to provide proof which you refused to do.

The rules apply to everyone. They are enforced without any prejudice whatsoever.

This is the last time I will ask you nicely to stop wasting my time. Either back up your claims, or stop wasting staff time. Thank you.

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and this ladies and gents is why the game has gone downhill, provide proof and they say its no good with this being said i had faith in this game before but not now, not especially after names are changed, proof is thrown by the wayside and people pick and choosewho the rules apply to

From what i have seen and know of the situation you are speaking of, and being a friend of your housemate as well i dont agree with the action taken against her and aired my disappointment to my crewleader about it.

But that is not really blood lining the action taken against her i feel was unjust and not fair. 

Though i can see the reasoning as to why it was taken as well, as is stated the actions you take are your OWN the reaction is not.

You took the rogue way thus damning your housemate to the same fate you damned yourself to is this fair? No i dont think it is but i also see the reasoning behind it. My friend and your housemate is not the first to have this done to her nor will she be the last.

Now when providing proof i would say its best to provide the whole lot not just snippets of it to try and tar someone in a bad light Bunny and Deadlysin spoke about that.

Which proves that they had spoken to other parties involved in the saga. Now if i recall not so long ago a certain group that tagged themselves with numbers ruled the land with an ironfist. I do believe one of your friends was part of that group they had certain folk on there shitlist and killed there accounts soon as they where discovered.

I am pretty sure Jeddy can confirm that with you TTD but i will throw some names out that where on that list of theres compiled by Jeddy i am pretty sure. BoD,Epsilon,Bjorn,Freelancer and Cookiemonster just to name a few there was more on that list though.

Now the admins never came to any of there defence even when that group was no longer in power and still hunted some of those folk down to shoot them.

Lastly what the fuck has WigGlefangirl4lyFe's name change have to do with anything? the name remained the same and was done out of fun by Izzy It is times like that Izzy having fun with us the users that makes this game unique the owner is just not a faceless entity but someone who wants to see people enjoy his game.

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Personally I feel it's wrong to attack a player over and over again, but I can understand why it's done. If every player were capable of actually playing a character then I'd condemn it completely, as it is though, once someone dies they pretty much pick up where they left off, hanging around with the same chums as before and most likely rejoining the same family. It's because of this that people will want to shoot you again (for whatever reasons they had originally) because you're the exact same person character wise, there's nothing different about you, just the name of your character.

The object of the game is pretty much to build a gun and use it, there's no allure to being solely a jailbreak character to rank up quickly, or a defence character to survive or a character that will frequent the streets to create a fun personality (those things don't exist any more) and so the only thing left to do is build a gun. With this in mind and given that 9 times out of 10 you're the exact same person as your previous account, with the same principles and knocking about with the same cunts as before, then people are going to be weary and will want to kill you.

If the community was bigger I'd say it wouldn't be as much of a problem, as it is though we have a fairly small community and so the odds are you're going to be found out if you try to go incognito. Many leaders want to know who you are, especially if you're building a gun. Given the amount of rogues we seem to have, it's understandable why this is but again, if the community was bigger it would be harder to track down these bloodlines and we'd have less of the nonsense.

I always wonder though, if these bloodlines want to make it in the world, why not approach the people that are bloodlining them? Try and create some kind of relationship, if it's a crew leader maybe try and join them and prove that you're not a cock. Put in the work for them and try to get them to change their perception of you. 

Bloodlining itself can't really be outlawed by the admins, I feel it would open a door we really don't want to open. I mean after all, if they did outlaw it, they'd have to give themselves a telling off for all the times they were killing off that numbers group.

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This should probably be removed from the forums.

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no, it shouldn't.
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