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Why I'm Posting This Stuff

As mentioned in my last posts (links above) I'm on a mission from God(father council) to MtSGA ... which fails to have the same quality as some other acronyms but I digress.

With the hopes of hearing what the players (not their characters) really think and want in the streets... here we are!  Don't say no one ever asked for your input.  ;)

Disclaimer:  Yeah, I write stories.  It's my cup of tea and obviously I have a certain point of view on it but I'm going to attempt to be fair and impartial in discussing the matter.  It's going to be hard for me and I ask for your patience and understanding.  I've always been a Mama Bear to the writers' community here at MR (very protective) and it's hard for me to be anything other than that - but I'm going to try and hear differing points of view on the matter because my mission is to make things awesome for more than just a few people... but for the whole community so that takes hearing what people have to say even if they disagree with me.  Please note ... regardless of what I and my people in Hollywood end up doing, know that people will always do what they can get away with and Squishy and the Admins remain the final arbiters in what is 'good' for the streets or not.

Types of Storytelling in the Streets & BDs

• Brief Encounters - someone posts that they are sitting in a cafe, anyone can join them.  No plan for what will happen.  Usually, just talk.  Does not advance any story, but helps players develop their character's personality and can be long or short.  Usually, a fun way to pass time while waiting to shoot or fly.  Often done in Business Districts.  Often has no clear ending, people just stop replying.
• Short Stories - Usually only one thread long.  Involving two or more writers.  Usually has a beginning, planned climax, and defined ending.  Can be read as a single story.  Think: stories that normally show characters involved in committing a crime of some kind.  May involve some small amount of planning by one or more people.
• Multi-Thread / Long Stories - Stories involving two or more characters and often many NPCs.  Might show a long con-game, planning and executing a difficult hit, a dramatic point in someone's personal life, a crime family taking out another crime family, etc.  Usually involves intense planning between two or more players and while it can be read in parts, is best enjoyed reading the whole thing together (think chapters in a book.)
• Journaling - Stories written by a single person giving the reader a window into their character's personal life that doesn't involve another player character but NPCs etc.  Might show the family life of a gangster, might show their 'day job' might show their backstory, childhood, memories, or other narratives that help give context to the rest of the RP they do around the site and why the person is the way they are.

Styles of Storytelling in the Streets & BDs

Open -  A story left in the streets uncompleted that anyone can post to.

Invite Only - A story written and completed in back alley then moved to the streets.

By technical definition, anything in the streets is open for folks to join.  However, the truth is many storytellers work in groups to create a story  in an effort to avoid spammers jumping in with nonsense or because maybe it doesn't make sense for a heist to have 20 people involved and you run that risk if you throw something to the streets open-ended. 

Storytelling ... and the challenges it presents

• Spam - Most people are super careful to spam in a way that won't get their posts deleted but there remains a few people who like to jump into threads and randomly post their presence even in ways that make no sense (examples: someone establishes the scene is set in a car and suddenly there's another person in the car who wasn't there before, two people are alone in an apartment and suddenly someone else is in the room, a scene is set in one place and someone claims it's somewhere else, characters are engaged in dramatic moment and someone walks into the room asking where the bathroom is, etc.)
• Exclusion - Many people WANT to be involved in writing stories about their characters but don't know to connect with other writers, are shy, or view their writing as subpar and so feel reluctant to reach out to others.  Because much of the activity of writers happen in back alleys to avoid spammers there is a feeling of "better than you" that some people have of writers who write together a lot.  One side views themselves as being excluded from the fun, while the other side isn't aware someone who isn't involved even wanted to be.
• Journaling for Credits - There is a prominent opinion that people seem to hold that some folks don't journal for fun but do so in an effort to win credits.  Because of secrecy behind how the credit lottery works and the VIP standings work, we can not confirm or verify that journaling is more or less effective than writing with others.  If Squishy were to remark on that - it may or may not help this point of view stand as valid.  But, regardless, some folks love writing about their characters on their own (or simply can't find people to write with) and it is viewed very negatively by a vocal minority and perhaps more who aren't talking about it.
• Respect for Writers - Two years ago when I came to this site there was no credit rewards for being a writer.  Consequently, the art was well respected and few would ever say a negative word about those who engaged in it regardless of their skill at the craft.  Of course, that also meant a lot of people saw writers as unnecessary in a crew (aside from mapping and the vision they might provide but you really only needed one of those in war time) and while they were nice to have, you could operate well enough without a single writer in your team. 
  
  However, with the new reward system in place, writers are more than just vision and +1 to your guns in war.  They are valid earners.  A good group of writers could mean real bucks for your crew - it can be the difference between bg'ing up all your hitters or only the CL and Hands.  As such... attitudes have changed.  People like to mock writers for their craft, for the joy they get out of building and developing characters, and trash them with impunity in the streets.  We do not see CLs coming down hard on anyone for insulting someone's writing like we used to... was a time if you were out in the streets being an asshole to someone you better hope you're a CL or GF... because undermades would be capped for that shit and made men and above would catch holy hell and maybe even have to compensate someone.

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The Godfather Council made quite a show for supporting writers and storytelling in setting up a district to promote this activity.  It was named specifically in their invite for people to apply for Hollywood.  BUT ... what do the players really want?  Do you really view storytelling as a means to collect credits only?  Do you see it as a valuable asset to MR that helps us get new players and keep them?  What and HOW do we improve RP here at MR?  There's a lot to unpack here... but please, share your thoughts, advice, input about what used to work or what might work in the future.  This is a chance for us to brainstorm better ways to take something people love and make it better for everyone.  

There are certain people here that will go out of their way to make life hell for writers. They are free to do and say whatever they want completely unchecked. Unfortunately, there are enough of them that if anyone were to say anything to them then they will be dragged through the mud by them and their friends. I understand that writing is not for everyone, but there is no reason that anyone needs to go out of their way to make someone miserable here just for their shits and giggles. They get off on trying to get under people’s skin, usually people who actually put thought and effort into what they do. If they don’t like it, that is fine but there is no need to call anyone out in the streets and it is becoming more and more common place. I don’t know what their end game is but if you aren’t part of their group then you’re a target for them and nothing more. Until that stops, the stories will slow and eventually end. 

I completely agree Dick_Grayson, it is disgusting how certain members of this site just goes around and bullies everyone. I close friend of mine (he have asked to remain anonymous so I will just call him PMJunior) have recently fallen victim to that. It makes me so angry to see it happen!

As for the broader topic of stories in our streets my opinion it that the ability to write it all out in a BA-thread and then move it over to the streets is making the streets much less interesting. This game is based around player interactions and it is very sad to me to see so litte of it in the streets. 

The threads I enjoy the most participating in and reading is those where different people who dont necessarily know each other or have planned it all out in advance interact. Stories can take unexpected and interesting turns when that happens and that makes those threads better than the planned out, pre written stories. 

If the godfather council is going to do something to promote the usage of the streets I hope they reward open threads where everyone can participate. And judging by the views counter Im not the only one who find the BA-moved-to-the-streets threads not that interesting.

As I said in the other thread, I have no real problem with people playing the game in any way that they so desire which they enjoy, until it adversely affects the rest of us. In those circumstances, the people who want to post monologues are, in my opinion, completely exploiting the system. The reason I think this is because those type of posts did not exist previously. In the 17 years I've played this game and it's predecessor, nobody would have either been able, or more importantly interested, in going to the streets and posting largely out of character splurges of content without anyone reading them.

The main arguments made in defense of the people doing this are "I write for me" and "I don't care about the rewards". If that is true, there is actually no need to post at all because you can write in on Word and read it back to yourself. As they don't do that, they don't keep them in back alleys and they instead post them in Streets, they do want something in return.

In answer to the questions you've posed:

I want people to stop taking the piss. I want people who post stories to make sure they are in character. I want them to actually explain why they are in the streets; just opening a post with "Day 1" or "The Made Up Hotel" should be removed by the street cleaners because it is meant to be someone standing in the street doing the actions they are describing. There is a really easy workaround, something I used to employ myself, but no longer see much need to. For example, rather than "Day 1", how about:

Grin was sitting on a bench. He had a journal in front of him. He opened it to page 1. He read to himself "Day 1"....

It isn't difficult and it provides the reader with a setting to operate in, if they do which to interact, and at the very least makes it plausible to what you're doing. Other obvious options are to write out yourself telling someone else the story. But as nobody needs to do that, because there are no proactive removals from the street cleaners and they get the credits anyway, why bother? 

Currently I see very few stories as adding much to MR besides content. Use the businesses and the people who are actually within the game for your protagonists and settings. Why does your story need to be in a made up hotel when there are plenty of them in existence within the BD? Want to have a bank job? Write up a bank business and then rob it. I have a heroin network right now with 5 businesses, all of which can be robbed, offering a platform to interact and tell stories and roleplay AND that isn't the side of the game I pay much attention to. Imagine what people who claim to focus on this area could do? 

So to be clear, Grin-06, it's not the stories you take issue with so much as the chosen location they are presented?  You would be okay with that scene written in a 'random hotel' if it was actually taking place in a hotel located in some city's business district?  I ask because I think this was discussed once before and people seemed to support it (at least until they found out you still get entries into the credit lottery for posting in the BDs then I think some folks found reasons to be upset that players were 'resurrecting' businesses of people who long ago died...)

Two years ago when I joined there weren't rewards for posting in the streets.  One of the first threads I read that blew me away was written by a fellow who then went by Pollution.  He ran a crew in Las Vegas.  Anyway, the whole thing was him writing by himself with his npc wife who was having an affair with another NPC who he then put a bullet in (if memory serves.)  It addressed the rage pollution felt over the betrayal and showed this hot-head mafia leader at a very low moment in his life.  It was well-written and was one of the many such scenes I read back then that caused me to stay here and write here and encourage others to write here.

I think there have always been people writing for their own enjoyment, sometimes by themselves, its just with no one gaining or losing anything for it back then... no one cared.  Now that someone can gain rewards for doing what they love, it's an issue because not everyone has the time or desire to do that and they feel as though that penalizes them.

But, by the same token, not everyone is online in the lounge all the time.  If you are a person who has a job that allows you to be on your phone all day you shoot at a lot more rogues than me and get a lot more credits than me (my job isn't one where I can be on my phone all the time.)  And when Squishy does games, you'd be far more likely to be online than I am if you're the sort of person who has the ability to be online during the workday.  I could get upset about that... or I could say, that's why Squishy offers a variety of ways to earn credits without buying them.

Granted, not everyone shares my point of view and certainly, mine isn't the only one but that's how I've always looked at it.

I don't object to anyone posting stories that are a plausible, realistic expression of their character. I personally think the Streets forum is probably not the best place for that, but the rules allow for it if it is done in the right way and I therefore would have no issue with it.

My overriding belief is that this is a game and people should do whatever they enjoy doing and if there were no VIP Rewards, I would very much be in favour of them following the rules but cracking on. However, I fundamentally oppose a reward being issued to someone who posts 79 consecutive parts of the same story. I do not feel this should be rewarded with the equivalent of $5m per day as the game is supposed to be about interaction between users, not me, myself and I. 

Not a fan of lounge rewards or rogue either, honestly, but that is likely another discussion. 

It sounds like your problem is with the system Grin-06, so what exactly do you get by attacking the players? Is your goal to get someone to stop doing something they enjoy just because it’s not the same way that you would do it? I can honestly say that I would never do anything the way that you would, that doesn’t make me any better or worse than you as a player. 

I have a problem with people exploiting the system. 

Who exactly have I attacked?

“this type of intake requires a considerable amount of shit dropped on the rest of us”

An exact quote from yourself.

How exactly is doing what is perfectly within guidelines as exploiting the system? Not everyone has the same style as you, that doesn’t make it any more or any less valuable than what you do. If you don’t like it, there’s no reason to click on it. 

Firstly that isn't an attack. Secondly it is an in character remark I made and this is OOC. Do you understand the difference? 

I never said you made the comment in OOC, you made it in the streets. You make a living off of making others feel inadequate for whatever reason. That’s the type of person that you are which is unfortunate. You don’t need to be a prick, you just choose to be. 

So in answer to my question, no, you don't understand the difference.

Sorry, semantics, your character is a prick. I’m not exactly sure what you get out of all of this. I’ve had multiple people come to me and say that they won’t even take a shot at writing because of you. How does that help the community at all? All you’ve done here is bring people down.

Not semantics, a fundamental flaw in how you perceive the game. My character has no relation to the user and each of them are different. That is what you don't understand, probably in your rush to be offended by very inoffensive remarks. 

I frankly don't believe that anyone has approached you at all. If they have and have been driven from writing because I named 4 people exploiting the credit system, why has that made then quit writing? That isn't a logical decision. Then again, that isn't very surprising because you aren't a logical person, just someone who makes baseless accusations when their own very delicate feelings are hurt, usually by nothing. 

If you think that it was just that one off handed remark then you’re more ridiculous than I thought. It’s you and your cronies, that is clear as day. You stir up shit because that is what you do, the only thing you seem to want to do. There is a reason that no one says anything, because it welcomes whatever garbage comes out of your mouth next. 

No, I don’t care for how you do things around here and I am most certainly not the only one. When you tell people what they do is shit, it’s going to keep people from doing it, whether you can see that or not. I’ve seen you say you have no problem with how people spend their time here but the truth of the matter is that is only true if it’s the same way you would do things. 

Dick, I'm going to leave this thread now because in addition to not understanding basic concepts underpinning the game, you also can't even repeat my own views back to me, even when they are written right in front of your face. Your distaste for me and my work is noted and completely, entirely ignored. To quote you, if you don't like it, there is no reason for you to click it. Pass that on to the other people prepared to have what I can only imagine is a very tedious conversation with you.

The issue with journaling (and whether or not it's an abuse of the system) won't be resolved here.  What I will say is this, as part of my application for Hollywood I outlined to the Godfather Council that I intended to find ways to create more open RP in the streets for people to join (if they so choose), to make better use of the OOC board as a resource to coordinate stories and encourage character and world development.  It's my hope that no one will be journaling alone out of a lack of opportunities to join scenes/stories with others.

So DickGrayson, do you disagree that the reward system is (at best) ridiculously exploitable?  The repeated turds tied to a rock that hit the streets and sink because it's just a stream of consciousness...barely mafia related, and written as if there is a gaggle of turd-thirsty devotees?

Yes, the rewards system is exploitable. Just like many other aspects of this place. My problem is with someone telling someone else what they do, what they work hard on and put effort into is shit because they don’t like the fact that they get credits for it. Some of us are here to tell stories, some are better than others, I will absolutely agree with that but there is no reason to try and tear anyone down because of it.

Ok.  I get that criticism can be a sore point for some but

1. If the rewards are exploitable
2. It's pretty evident that some stuff, no matter how well or badly constructed, is written to exploit those rewards (and I'm not including blatant source/fan fiction plagiarism in that)

then is there any difference in criticising that and criticising other means to gain an advantage?  Because when it all boils down to it, that's what it does.  Paraphrasing Magda, leaders and hitters can be bodyguarded up quicker thanks to a well organised exploitation of the VIP credits.

At that point the only semantical difference is how that is communicated...a rolling of the eyes as it pops into lounge or actually saying something.  If you believe in the product you're pedalling then criticism and critique should be welcomed as a means to improve but I stand with Grin on this.  There is some utter bilge forced upon people looking at the streets, some well written and some most definitely not, all in the name of getting credits. 

If someone wants to create a love-story between a vampire and an alien, fair play...just keep your sci-fi fantasies to back alley and enact whatever floats your boat...particularly if criticism isn't your bag.  I recall a story about some manor or other in the streets which happened to be the name of their HQ as well where the two protagonists flirted and whatever but as soon as anyone joined in, they complained it was private.  If it's private, keep it in the HQ or back alley.  If it's for public consumption, don't object to the public getting involved.