In addition to the selling witness statements to the warden, how about actually putting the witness statement up for sale on a "black market".

There was a time when people offered rewards for witness statements and they weren't just given up for free. Maybe this would bring back those times as people are always looking to make money.

Pro's;

No additional money flows into the game as the money for the WS comes out a players pocket.

Money filters down to lower ranks if they're 'lucky' enough to catch the witness statement.

100% verifiable witness statement to the purchaser as a simple coding transfer of a witness statement from one personal to anothers (works like the credit market, mailing or bank transfers).

100% anonymity for the seller encourages people to sell rather than just give it up (as i dont believe there should be a witness to EVERY murder).

Adds a little more 'back-handed dealing' the mafia is used to.

In the event of an attempted 'cover-up' by a reputable mafioso (for example, a leader shooting their own RH), a witness statement could go for millions creating a bit of excitement.

Con's;

Possible loss of witness statement entirely (assuming if the seller dies, the black market sale is taken down)... this wouldn't be a con in some people's eyes.

Maybe its usage would be small as not many people die outside of war time.

I'm honestly struggling to think of anymore cons to this, if anyone has any that I can't currently think of, be my guest and point them out.

My only real concern with this is whether or not it would be used.

Witness statements are pretty hard to catch intentionally anymore and most people hand them over right away rather than think of the money they could make.

If there was demand from the users for this, then I would be happy to see it coded. Otherwise, it might be effort better spent elsewhere.

The usage is my concern, but given that we already have the credit marketplace coded, it shouldn't be too hard time and effort wise. I'm sure enkindle or Squishy could tell us if in lamen's terms, a simple "copy/paste" type procedure would work on the coding side... only for WS' instead of credits.

Personally I find it extremely unlikely the coding will be as simple as that, but then my knowledge of that side of things is very limited so I could easily be wrong.

I'd like to move away from the code aspect though anyway, as the main focus just now is whether users are likely to make use of it.

I myself quite like the idea. I would certainly find it something id use instead of the generic 10k for the W/S. Contrary to what Grin said, I find it very seldom that
people bother to turn in W/S's actually. Unless a specific request goes out for one of importance, most folk just throw them away for 10k.

If we had a "black market" option where we could possibly see the w/s's on offer and an asking price, again much like the Credit market as Countdown said, then
I think people would use it. And again like the market place maybe the w/s could sit there for a max of 7 days before being removed automatically, at which point
the user has missed out on the original 10k available too meaning no extra cash for them - I like the risk involved there.

With that risk, I see the previous mentioned Con turned into a Pro; money leaving the game. As we tend to see a great many w/s's flying around during Durden visits that are then all
sold for 10k each, the chances of people putting these on the market and then not bought could happen fairly often if the system isn't used frequently. This in turn would mean money
is leaving the game which isn't a bad thing imo.

Risk vs reward, I like it.

Ok, i've maybe gone slightly off track there.. but in general I like the idea and i'm eager to see it moulded.

A question - the whole "WS marketplace" aside, how is this suggestion any better than currently buying them from the warden? Could you perhaps merge the two features together, or?

Just to clear things up when selling the witness statement would the victim's name show up to the person trying to purchase?

The victim would be shown in the "market", so you'd know what w/s your buying. The warden sells random ones to you. Id maybe remove the warden option if this was implemented?

Yeah, thinking it over... I think it might be better as a replacement than an addition if anything. Would be a good way to take some money out of the game as people aren't so willing to buy the WS of an RIA, therefore that 10k for selling witness statements is gone unless a city head is researching before war time and buys them all up.

Yes Tech, it would work like an anonymous hitlist. The"victim" shows up on the list and a price set (or minimum price if its going to work auction-style). It could be as simple as... next to the WS in your persona, a "sell" option shows next to it.

You could also keep the current sell to warden option for 10k alongside this if you really wanted to and give players the choice of what they wanted to do, but I believe it would cut its usage. If we removed the sell for 10k option as mentioned before... people in high places might just buy them all up pre-war time creating a spike in prices and more money filtering down through the ranks.

No idea why I didnt sponsor this idea at the time, I like the idea itself and think there is merit in it.

I'm still not convinced this would get used.

I'm with Grin on this one, I don't see it getting much use outside of sponsored member getting shot. It would also cause the family that that lost a member & paid for the WS to trying and claim that cost back from the family of the shooter as part of the compensation.

I think the sale of the WS itself for a real person is a good thing, you may be right and that may be the only time its used, but I still see that as a good thing. At this point in time, we get money for nothing for simply receiving these WS's. On days like today with a massive spawn, there is a lot of money made for simply being online.

At the very least this is a possible way to take money out of the game so we can maybe add one or 2 other features in other areas of the game that mobsters will make money from and ensure that we dont go anymore over the top.

I'm definitely not for making money just by showing up online (the current system we have of selling witness statements to the warden). Especially as during these huge spawns I have made well over 100k just from turning up... and I've not been as active as I usually am lately.

I like this idea a lot. A WS board where WS's could be listed for sale would be quite interesting. 

There's a definite possibility that it won't be used... but then again - it could be a hit, you don't know until you try.

I've seen it work in different 'places' before quite well. Not everyone is vocal or uses IRC or is as involved in the general politics of the game... Those are the people that would throw up witness statements on this board for a few extra bucks. I would also question as to what a 'valuable' witness statement is. After a war, you may want to know who killed you or your friend - just out of curiosity. I think this would be a fun aspect that could be implimented. I am 100% sure that it will be used to SOME degree.

I would advocate putting restrictions on it though. the first thing that comes to mind is only letting people post WS's for active real players (no MIA RIAs NPCs) just to save the clutter and annoyance. 

It seems kinda cool. I remember way back when .. when you could actually make quite a lot of money for WSs. I'm definitely for talking about it further.

So it would go something like this?:

Nov 28 - 13:22:33 Deceased - PC-SpikeSpiegel $1,000,000 (Buy)
Nov 28 - 13:22:33 Deceased - PC-Warrior $500,000 (Buy)
Nov 28 - 13:00:03 Deceased - AnnieWilkes $100,000 (Buy)

[Here you can purchase a Witness Statement that a player has posted]


It is a cool idea although when you get the money for your WS, you would then be able to just tell anyone what the WS was and then spending the money on it would be a waste of time.

The only way I can see this working well is if you get information in your personals like this...


Nov 28 - 13:22:33 A small time thug thats been working under you has just witnessed the murder of PC-Warrior. Would you like to Blacklist this or View it?

That way if the person decided to view the WS they couldn't sell it afterwards. So clicking blacklist and then posting your reward would leave the person that's buying it the only person who gets to view it.

I think that's the only way people would actually fork out to buy it.

Oh I like that. That extra little bit has made this feature something I find quite intriguing actually.

Not quite sure on the dynamic of how you can be a witness to something, but not know who you saw and yet still be able to sell that information. Despite that obvious logical flaw, I like the fact you could choose to either view the statement or sell the statement. One or the other.

Nice touch, Annie.