ratSkcoR wanders onto the street on a fine Tuesday evening. However ratSkcoR has something he feels he needs to say. As he notices a few people gather ratSkcoR pulls the old headless welders soapbox from the ratSkcoRbarrow. Upon mounting the soapbox ratSkcoR raises his arms above his head and begins to speak...

'Friends, family members and Mutes' ratSkcoR bellows.

'You know what really bugs me? The fact people are being punished for being brave and proactive. The fact Satanta has a fucking answer for everything.' ratSkcoR looks around and sees more people gather.

'You know what else really gets to me?' ratSkcoR pauses 'Rank whores, mutes, VinceNoirs pink thong' ratSkcoR knew that the very mention of Vinces thong would draw the crowds. So as ratSkcoR looks at the gathered crowd he decides that he may have enough people to listen...

So now folks I'm going to stop refering to myself as if I am walking behind myself giving a running commentary...

You know what pisses me off more than all of that put together?

The fact that people walk these streets talking in the 3rd person. I can see you have come on to the streets, you are fucking standing here talking, you don't need to walk onto the streets describing what you are doing, I know what you are doing, you are already on the street, talking about how you are on the street, I CAN FUCKING SEE YOU ARE ON THE STREET, you are there, TALKING!

JESUS!

Is it just me?

Alexander wanted to respond to the man standing on his soap box, but Alexander didnt have a soap box of his own. Would responding be proper at this point? Prehaps Alexander should steal a soapbox from someone else in order to speak. Whatever th end game was, Alexander wanted to make sure he was in with the in crowd.

Speaking in the third person is simply irritating. I certainly wouldn't dream of doing it.

*Satanta takes a moment to answer the questions of a random passer by*

The only time one should use such a thing would be if you were telling a story or that kind of thing. Then, it's perfectly acceptable and even the correct way of doing it in many instances. However, when is someone in our line of business ever likely to be telling a story or role playing something out?

*Satanta flicks a match stick at ratSkcoR, just to illustrate a point*

Personally, I'm just happy to see people wandering our streets. Any sign of life is better than total isolation in this thing of ours. I'm not too worried about what tense they use or if they refer to themselves in the third person. As long as they have a point to make or an opinion to share I'll happily listen.

*ratSkcoR catches said match stick and flicks it at Alexander*

I agree that the new life of the streets of late is a breath of fresh air and I am wholeheartedly behind seeing new faces on the streets but I do feel that the message can be lost when you are listening to someone talk about each step they take rather than the point they are trying to make. I understand some people like to hide the fact they have no opinion but want to grab some street cred by speaking out here but sometimes some really good opinion and thought is lost in a sea of footsteps and cigars etc:

I also believe that alot of great street talent can be intimidated by other people going vastly over the top in describing what they are doing. People who could have great potential maybe don't have the confidence to step out here as they feel they have to elaborate every action as if they were writing a never ending novel about their entire life.

*ratSkcoR beckons Alexander to the headless welders soapbox*

It's yours to use my friend, but it comes with a warning, 2 out of the last 3 people to use it while wearing a bold suit got a little gun happy. Its your gamble to take...

I'm quite the mute, ratSkcoR, not because I choose to be, I'm just awful with words friend.

Though, you do bring up valid points good sir, mainly about Vince however, I do agree about the streets and some leaders being 'mutes' such as myself, though I plan to improve upon it in due time.

Also, Satanta is a very smart man i'd say, so of course he has the answer to everything! As I said, i'm not a good speaker but I often dont try either, really in fear of myself looking silly in front of so many people.

Mudkip sits down in a nearby pond and awaits whats to come

Ahhh, so the issue isn't that anyone might speak in the third person really, it's more a lack of people being able to get to the point? Especially when it's caused by excessive arm gesturing, physical movements or scratching of ones ass.

I can't disagree with you there and do tend to agree on occasion. I think it really depends on the context and can be either acceptable or entirely inappropriate.

I appreciate the gesture, but you should have no worries. My supersoaker, sorry Mudkip, I had to steal your gun, is broken. Im more of a man who acts with my words than a gun. I appreciate the milk crate, I will treat it as my own.

My blood has preached this since time began I think... it just makes no sense to speak in third person.

However, I'm not so sure I agree that it gets in the way of trying to get across a point. There are some people that overdo it a little, but if you weren't so baked ratSkcoR (break out the TSCOSP bong then!) I'm sure you'd be able to decipher your way through it.

As for it maybe intimidating people and keeping them away from the streets... well, it's a possibility that they are slightly put off by what they perceive to be the 'correct' way to speak... to (and I use this term very loosely) 'roleplay'.

Glad there's someone else out there who finds this a pet peeve, it's been one of my blood's for generations.

ruthless looks at ruthless to check ruthless is indeed who ruthless thinks ruthless is

Don't give him the bong. If we keep hiding it from him we'll get treated to more entertaining rants. And folks said he would mellow with age..

RatSkcoR...you know that despite our otherwise shortlived acquaintance to date, I like you a lot. We agree on a lot, particularly on issues involving Vince's underwear, but I have to point something out here.

I am as pedantic as they come about things like this, but what you refer to as third person speech is more of a form of narrative than anything else. If I were to do this:

"Lilac likes bongs. Pretty pretty bong. Give it to Lilac. Lilac wants the bong."

Now, that is speech in the third person. But to narrate oneself is a little bit different and for some, it can feel less natural to narrate in first person. Most people's first inclination is to narrate with themselves as the protagonist.

Often times the third-person (narrative) you are referring to is unnecessary, or irrelevant to the point. I'm guilty of that myself sometimes

Or is it something to be guilty of? People's styles vary from others. Some people prefer to provide a little bit of a backdrop for the listener to visualize. Sometimes it adds something to the speech. It's obviously something that bothers you, which is fine, but personally I'd hate to hinder somebody's creativity or presentation of an idea, especially when we're seeing more activity in the streets.

But admittedly, if the (narrative) gets too long, I often skip ahead to the meat and potatoes of the speech rather than bother with the whole backdrop.

Not to get too far off-point but what is a rank-whore?

I knew TheHumanCentipede would get to the meat and two veg of the matter sooner or later :)

Everyone is different, thats all I got to say here.

This wasn't about if different people's styles were right or wrong Built2Destroy. We are saying this particular way is dead wrong and could do with being corrected.

Whether everyone is different is irrelevant if they're in the wrong.

How is it dead wrong?

OOC warning: These grey boxes don't just represent speech. If they did, then yeah, I could see the point here...but they don't. What happens here is narration and speech. And like I said, most people automatically narrate in the third person, especially as this is a role-play game and it often boosts the sense of your 'other' character. Some even choose to have third-person speech as a particular characteristic. What's wrong with that?

In most cases, actually, a poster will have a part of their contribution marked clearly as speech and usually in first person, be it via italics or inverted commas. The rest is, again, narration.

I do feel that we're nitpicking here, somewhat.

Never expected a follow up to that one but sure I'll try to answer,  I never said anything was right or wrong, I just said everyone is different.

Some like one thing others don't, thats all I tried to get across here.

And well it doesn't hurt to correct things either.

Like Built2Destroy mentioned Lilac, some like one thing, others don't. The original poster, Satanta and I believe that talking in third person is wrong. So we say it is wrong.

I feel like you're nitpicking here simply because I have belief in my convictions. If I believe it is wrong, I will say it is wrong. Just because you don't believe that it is, doesn't make it so. Just because I believe that it is, doesn't make it so. However ratSkcoR asked a question and I gave him a 100% truthful answer.

What's wrong with it in my eyes? As already stated, it is NOT roleplay. I don't get how anyone can deduce that talking from a third person standpoint is anything even remotely to do with roleplaying. Even having a narrative seems ridiculous to me. If you're playing a role you become your character.

I have to go OOC to describe this fully. We are supposed to be immersed into a world playing a role, imagine for a second that you ARE actually a Godfather in the mafia underworld, imagine how you would converse with your troops, your most trusted, your opponents and every single person in your walk of life. THAT is how I believe this world should be played out. There is no narrative to your real life... someone doesnt follow you around saying things like "Lilac sits down on the couch to watch TV" just as you're doing that action.

I get that sometimes italics need to be used to describe hand gestures (*waves*), or a tip of the hat instead of actually saying the word respect, but such is the length and breadth of it's use today that it turns into story time with auntie Joan. On the point of stories.. they are just about ok as they can actually be passed off as a story written by a mobster and theyre just relaying it through speech in the streets. But to describe our every footstep, toke on a joint/bong/bowl/cig, when we're standing on a soapbox, walking down the street, taking a sip of whatever drink we have and so on is ridiculous.

Countdown has beaten me to the mark due to me having lost my bong, if anyone sees my trusty crusty friend then please call my new hotline on 0800 wheresmyfuckingbong.

When you see me out here on the streets, I am ratSkcoR. everything i say is me ratSkcoR.

*takes a quick look under Countdowns frilly tutu*

I know that fecking bong is here somewhere...anyway...sure, sometimes people need to know what I am doing...

*waves his arms*

...but we have subtle ways of people picking up on this. What I am trying to say is, why should we make excessive descriptions of all our gestures like we are reading from a novel. Surely there are hints on how we can do this without going into overkill and alienating people who want to speak but feel they don't need/want/have to reciet from the novel of life.

*points above at subtle hints*

Then that way we can decipher what people are saying from what people are doing and new interesting people will join in our little debates and bitch fights. We are able to be punished from God from killing people and forcing them away, what about our own form of street intimidation that is just as powerful at turning people away.

*puts ruthless back in his cage*

Who let him out?  And Lilac don;t tell Vince cause he's kinda obsessed with me but I like you too.

*ratskcoR winks*

I think this is the biggest problem for some people wondering how much effort they should make, giving the right entrance and trying to put accross their point.   I can understand often the need for pauses and how people emphasise them and seems to be one rule in one place, another for say when doing your shopping in the business district.  This can be confusing for some, and puts them off coming out if told your wrong in what you do, especially if newer to the streets.

Cpt_Tycho, contrary to the theme of this speech, there is no right or wrong way of approaching the streets.  ratskcor and Countdown have their opinions of what is right or wrong for how somebody should approach a street introduction or a street speech, but that's their opinion.  Obviously some agree, while others don't.  That in itself is what makes the streets interesting.  Topics do tend to get heated on here, and newcomers often subject themselves to criticism and sometimes ridicule on here.  Sometimes street speakers are attacked for the wrong reasons.  Sometimes people will jump to their defense when they are.  But ultimately it's up to the speaker to either stand his or her ground, or sulk off back to obscurity if their street speech is judged too harshly for their likes.  What kind of effort should people be making? They should be putting forth a good effort if they want to be taken seriously.  The tools, methods, or back-story they use is ultimately up to the speaker though.  Some clearly oppose to certain styles, but that doesn't make them wrong for using them.  Doesn't make the people that oppose to those methods wrong either, it's just a matter of how people choose to express themselves.  Hopefully that clears up some confusion.  If somebody is looking to put themselves out on these streets, they should realize they can be cold, and should brace themselves for scrutiny and probably be equipped to defend themselves from that same scrutiny.