Whilst taking care of some family business I overheard a conversation which chilled me to the bones:

To:
From:
Sent: Jul 30, '13 20:49
Subject:

Im sorry, i was just wondering if you would be interested in a suit.

Feel free to wear the suit free of charge.

did not mean to harass you.

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To:
From:
Sent: Jul 30, '13 20:47
Subject:

One does not simply walk up to someone and refer to them as 'Lad' and attempt to force a suit sale. I am not naked. i have a perfectly good suit.

Dont let me find you harassing my tails.

Beat it Kid. Show some respect.

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To:
From:
Sent: Jul 30, '13 20:43
Subject:

lol sorry on the typo but im serious got a nice suit i put together fast

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To:
From:
Sent: Jul 30, '13 20:40
Subject:

ill pay you a buck to never ask me that question again

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To:
From:
Sent: Jul 30, '13 13:20
Subject:

Hey lad are you willing yo by a suit from me

I fear for our families and their young, and the fate of business owners who attempt to expand outside of the business district without permission. Experienced shoulders would have made note that this individual surrounded by hired help did not want to be disturbed, especially for business which does not belong in the local politicians office - Experienced shoulders would have made note of this.

That day i made a pledge to ensure my fellow family members are aware of their actions and the family way. I can only hope family leaders recognize this plague infecting our way of life and spread the word in a way they see fit.....

~YF

OOC:

Let me make something clear: This game is built on respect. 

I hope newcomers to the game can see the importance in the above conversation trail.

Such shame on their sponsor / crew leader and family members.

• Act respectful.
• Do your job.

Additionally, when using mob-mail. Do keep in mind you are in character unless stated otherwise.

Uhh... He never did state the persons involved in this.. So as far as the whole private thing I think he did OK, as well prove a point.

I'm afraid _Izzy_ you have done nothing here today besides prove YogaFlame's point. 

I think the point Yoga is making (correct me if I am wrong Yoga) is a Man of Honor should not be conducting himself in the manner you have been showing, it sets a bad example in my opinion.

Am I saying you are bad person? No. All I am saying is maybe you should show a little more respect. Granted he may be a "lowly Earner" and may be button man, I don't feel that gives you the right to come out and tell the guy to fuck off considering he was decent enough to keep the names undisclosed.

"But have you ever met a business man who dosent try to harass and get business?"

Yes I have, plenty.. Harassing people does not make sales. By harassing the man you have lost a possible buyer. Also by coming out into the streets the way you did, you may have lost quite a few more. One of the keys of running a business is being liked by your consumers.  If someone says they don't want your product, leave them be.. Now they know you sell. They may come to you in the future.

Also I am not sure what this "rp" you guys keep speaking of.

My conduct has been alittle off I guess. My apologies for the way I aproached you YF.

No pulls up in his car and gets out to approach _Izzy_.

Go take a seat in the car _Izzy_ and have a drink, it will calm you down a little.

Kill-The-Irishman you are correct, he should not have acting in that way. I will have a chat with him about that. At the same time though, whether he hid the names or not, this should have never been brought to the streets and made public. What Yoga done was out of order in my books and I hope I will never see a repeat of this again. 

He is a Earner, therefore if he wants to mention respect he should not be in the streets judging the way someone teaches a member or how a family is run. Moreover what is "OOC" I have heard this is something that should not be uttered in the streets for some reason.

Of course No.. I see where you are coming from there and I agree. I should've touched on that.

Nicholas Hearon was walking down the street when he noticed a few familiar mobsters arguing. He walks over and listens to the argument for a minute then begins to speak.

"Guys I will keep this short and to the point. YogaFlame not being a Made Member and telling a Button man what to do and how not to talk him. Also him coming out to the streets and openly posting a "OOC" message for the world to see, even if he keeps the names out of it, I view it as open disrespect."

Ok.. I'm sorry to Izzy for making sound like it was ALL his fault.. Let me rephrase.. Had he been a little more respectful, like not telling the guy he has shitty clothes, etc.. I would've agreed 100% with Izzy. I do agree that a Earner should not be telling a Button Man to "do his job." That is indeed very disrespectful.

KTI looks over to Izzy

My apologies my friend. Also if your work is anything like your forefathers I will be in touch.

Goten looks at the letter being held up, and then at the people standing around with a confused look on his face.  Goten then turns to KTI and frowns.

KTI my friend, I don't see anywhere that Izzy said he had shitty clothes, he actually said nothing at all about Yogas suit.  Like you said it is clearly Yoga that was disrespectful in this situation.  Acting as if calling someone lad is offensive, when everyone can clearly see it isnt meant as an insult.  He was attempting to make a friendly letter, and just promote his business a little.

Goten turns to Izzy and smiles.

Izzy, Sir your work is fantastic.  Keep up the good work! 

If it's disrespectful for a man to make money I better apologize to all the old ladies I stole purses from.

Cray you should have made that apology a long time ago. XD

Aye Goten, he did though.

"I saw a prime target one who looked like they where wearing shit for clothing."

No it's not disrespectful to make money by any means. I just think that after he got the response of: "I'll pay you a buck to never ask that question again" that should have been the end of the conversation. The letter lost all friendly intentions once that was said. Granted Yoga response was nothing short of shitty. However situations like this can be handled better by everyone involved. Double goes for Yoga calling a Made Man a kid, what the fuck?

But I still don't feel Izzy is 100% right in the way he conducted himself. That's just my opinion.

Just because you're angry or aggravated does not mean you have to get all excited and bitch someone out. That goes for all parties involved. Would I have let Yoga get away with something like that.. No I would've told him to "learn some respect if you ever want to make something of yourself." Or something of that nature. So I will make my point loud and clear.

Yoga should not have come to the streets with this, he should learn some respect also.

Izzy, in my opinion should have cut the insults as it doesn't really prove anything and it makes you look bad. Also if he was going to tell the kid what for, I think he should have done it in mail. Then this sorry excuse of a speech would have never have been acknowledged.

I think this could have been sorted much better indeed i agree irish.

I think Yoga envisioned this to go a different route, as in many people lining the streets to congratulate him on how well he fought the corner of respect and what not.I also think he knew he didnt have to put izzy's name up to get a reaction out of him and now izzy knows the part he played on these streets are wrong.

And Yoga i hope that's not a sly dig at how anyone in NY should be or is running their families 

OK. I was going to just leave this as it really wasn't worth commenting on. But since people seem to keep coming back I'll give my thoughts on the whole scenario.

First off, what Izzy did isn't as bad as was made out by Yoga. He offered a suit, clearly none was required and some offence was taken. Izzy should have left it there, however to his credit he apologised as far as I can see and even offered to give the suit away for free as a good will gesture for having annoyed the man.

This should have been where it ended.

The fact Yoga brought the comments out here to the public would normally be something I would be up in arms about, but Yoga had the decency to actually remove the names from his conversation and was simply looking for some input on the matter. Yoga believed that how Izzy acted was wrong and clearly failed to see the way he has approached the situation was also wrong. Both were at fault but neither were as bad as people are making out.

Essentially, Izzy made an error which I feel he had then rectified with his apology. Yoga's biggest error was not only in bringing this to the public in the guise of a respect discussion, but also the fact he had the audcaity to chaste someone on keeping things in character when using Mobmail yet spoke OOC in the streets. Irony was clearly lost there.

As I said though, the actual act of coming to the public with the situation wasn't an issue for me. He did some with a degree of anonymity and Izzy has obviously taken offence to the shared conversation and immediately outed himself as the man in question, which was the result of more back and forth between a number of people; but not Yoga.

I think now is the time for the whole scenario to be forgotten. Izzy knows that his approach wasn't appreciated and I fully believe Yoga is aware now that his response was also the wrong way to handle matters.

Let me clear a few things up.

Attempting to stay in character was a direct attempt to make this whole affair anonymous and highlight that the core values of the game are built upon respect.

I attempted Staying in character to reflect that the conversation was:

1.  Anonymous
2.  Overheard

The point of this article was to remind individuals how this game should be played. I was prepared to leave it at that. However i think my point has been proven beyond doubt:

1. The individual i was referring too outed himself and has forced his CL to take action upon myself. Quite the knee-jerk reaction and didnt fully understand the point of my post.

And a few final notes.

1. I have no ongoing beef with Izzy.
2. I was simply stating what i had observed. The post was primarily made in character.

Well, this is entertaining. I do have a couple of questions, though... Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than me about how this world works will help me out

1. Why was this the wrong way to start a debate/conversation based on respect? I find it to be quite appropriate.

2.Why shouldn't this be brought out to the public? Assuming, people still visit the Streets, this could serve as a cautionary tale of sorts for another mobster, buttoned up or not, while attempting to make a similar 'sale', thus, removing quite a few moments of irritation for people like Yoga here and removing quite a few moments of shame(too strong a word?) for 'entrepreneurs' like Izzy...

I would indeed say Shame is too strong, as there wasn't anything shameful in Izzy's actions. Annoying? Perhaps. Shameful though? Certainly not.

Why should it be brought out, McLuvin? What interest does it hold to the public that someone attempted to sell a man a suit? In what manner does this enter the realms of respect? What exactly is disrespectful about someone attempting to earn some money by tailoring a suit for people?

As I already said, I actually have no issue with Yoga's original discussion. I see no harm in it at all, but thats not to say that I agree it is about respect. At most I can agree he is well within his rights to come out here and discuss the technique used and his disliking for it, but it sure as hell has nothing to do with respect in my opinion.

Well, I wasn't referring to Izzy's actions as shameful, Consigliere Worley. I was referring to the fact that his business tactics were brought out into the open and if the initial responses are any sort of judge, aforementioned business tactics were rather.....obnoxious?( again, too strong?). If it was me, I would be feeling quite ashamed or at the very least, bashful.

Anyway, moving on, What interest does it hold to the public? Well, I'd like to think of myself as a member of the public and this was probably the most interesting conversation I have witnessed in the recent past. Allow me to elucidate, I had no idea that people were approaching fellow mobsters regarding the sale of suits. It has never happened to me nor to any member of my bloodline. Maybe it's because I am too damn sexy for my suit to matter or maybe my suit is too damn sexy, I'll never know. So, I found it quite enlightening that one does not really need to approach a 'suit-maker' anymore, just walk around with a suit that the aforementioned suit maker finds disgusting or at the very least, mildly repulsive and I would be offered his/her services. I have always needed to ask for a suit and sometimes, needed to wait quite unreasonable amounts of time for the suit.

I still believe that it is about respect. In my eyes, quite a few forms of respect have been neglected in the exchange that was brought to these Streets: Respect for a fellow mobster's privacy, respect for his choice of clothing and respect for his choice to not approach a suit maker regarding a suit. Also, respect for one-self before offering a complete stranger, who also happens to be a mere associate, his/her services, while being a button man in a crime syndicate totally removed from the 'client's'. Yes, we are businessmen, but I used to think that there was a line that separated us from door to door salesmen. Guess not.

Insanity walks out of the insane asyl...his family HQ and hears the debate going on in the street involving something his associate had brought to the streets. He decides to put his one cent in....seeing as he is a bit poor.

Now I don't see the problem with this conversation being brought to light as YogaFlame removed the name of Izzy. This was the respectful way of bringing up the topic. 

While I can see that both can be viewed as at fault for the way they talked to each other. But you can't honestly view the way he approached YogaFlame as a business manner. 

Hey lad are you willing yo by a suit from me

1) He referred to YogaFlame as lad. He should have approached him with less of a demeaning word if he wanted to make a good impression and make a sale. You could clearly see in the mail back and forth that YogaFlame did not appreciate this approach. 

2) He didn't even make an attempt to make sure his spelling and grammar were correct. How is that a way to make a good impact with a potential customer?

3) It seemed more like a spam mail in an effort to make any sort of money he can. While I don't see wanting to making money as a bad thing. In this manner I do. Don't just message any player about a suit if they have not contacted you. Obviously they do not want a suit if they haven't contacted you asking for one.

Now on to the point that some may see YogaFlame calling Izzy a kid being just as disrespectful. But YogaFlame was just repaying the lack of respect that he was shown. While contacting people through mail or talking to them in the streets you need to keep a level of respect no matter their rank. 
 

Also the fact of the matter was that after YogaFlame's response Izzy should have known that he was not interested. He should have moved on immediately. Although I do commend him for offering the suit up for free due to understanding he may have annoyed YogaFlame. Now I don't see Izzy as being super disrespectful. It's just a very slight show of disrespect, nothing to freak out about. He also never had to come to the streets and reveal it was him. Where he again acted in a disrespectful manner.

but talking about respect you could have just left it in private instead of acting like a duche bag and thinking you would get some cool points for trying to throw someone under a bus. Your not important and dam sure ain't notable in my book so feck'off.

Rather than let it stay at just him calling YogaFlame lad. He has to go and make a fool of himself saying things such as I've pointed out above. Some people will question whether this is really a topic that can be related to the topic of respect. I can say it would slightly be about that but it is also about how to conduct business in this thing of ours, especially if you have a tailoring business.

In my bloodline's journals I've seen mentioning of people trying to force suits upon him. I've never liked the idea of it. Also my bloodline has seen people try to ask for money, for credits to be sold to them for cheaper than market price, or credits for free, or even for me to go to their business. I see these as all in the same category. If I do not know you then don't mail me asking me for things or for me to do business with you. If I wanted to, then I'd advertise that I was interested in such things or I'd find you and contact you about it.