I don't think there is such a thing as a perfect mobster. We all have our flaws even if some are less likely to admit it.

Onto your question. I can't speak on how leaders look for their next auths but as you pointed out there are bloodlines that prove themselves repeatedly, there are some that have blackened pasts and then there are the completely new bloodlines. From a personal point of view and as a bloodline that has a blackened past it is not easy for those of us to prove that we are in a position to lead. People tend to think "Well if they did this before, they may do it again." I'd like to believe that they would base it off current rather than past but I know that to be false. So just to be able to work for a crewleader that I like and at times I can admit to admiring some aspects my personal belief remains that I will not have the opportunity. That is my belief but I won't let my personal belief hinder my work ethics for my current crewleader and I think that is important.

Just because you believe something doesn't mean it's always true. Beliefs change as people evolve and grow or start to see things completely different from how they perceived them before. Because of that I specifically wouldn't let my belief make me any less of a member to my family.

Other people that have given little to no fuss but do make an effort should be given the chance. I don't believe you should be handed anything without working for it, of course. So those that are new should learn all aspects if they want to lead. You can't lead a group of mobster if you know nothing about the way of life.

In a perfect world orithyia yes the mobster who does his duty and is loyal to his boss should get the chances but it simply does not happen and its mirrored in the real mafia as well theres prime examples where men who were in line to take over a family were stepped over and thats life.It simply brings me to my point i feel if you want to lead or be in a leadership position you should do as real mafiosi do eathier go above and beyond what is expected or if you so disgruntled with the active leadership make something happen take a lesson from the real mafia look to the greats like Carlo Gambino or to the notorious John Gotti who both came to power in a violent coup.If you have the power and the support make something happen and thats what i believe.

Satan finishes up his blunt as he listens to the speech...

It's funny. I remember my father bringing up something similar to this awhile ago.

Here is my opinion, but of course, I'm only a mere gangster in these streets...

Of course "everyone" has an opportunity to make it to a bold suit. It's our given right in this world to be able to make moves and work our way to the top. Now do some bloodlines have it easier than others? Yes. It's apparent. It can't nor shouldn't be hidden. Obviously those with fathers and/or mothers who put in work have a better chance at living in the footsteps of their parents. Will they make it? Maybe not. Maybe some unknown gangster who proved his worth will get the chance instead.

I've learned that I can no longer sit back and complain about not getting a BOLD suit. I have to work harder than my ancestors have, and make an opportunity for myself. 

Money, Power, and Respect will come to those who work hard for it. Nothing should be handed out. If you get money and power without working, then you get NO RESPECT.

So, my fellow mafiosos, keep working hard towards your dream of becoming a CL, or a Hand. Or even a different position in your crew/district/city's upper structure. NEVER give up, because you never know how close you are, or can be.

Satan closes out his rant, and pulls out a fresh blunt, and sparks it as he disappears in the streets.

Let's be reasonable here, the opportunities are a lot less limited now then before. There are 28 crews and 56 hand positions, 84 total spots. What it mostly boils down to is a bunch of lazy motherfuckers who refuse to dedicate time to push someone they think has what it takes and teach them the ins and outs. Instead they find an old friends bloodline and ride on the coat tails to an easy and laid back experience. Fucking challenge yourself and others, how are you proving yourself to be worth a fuck sticking to the easiest fucking road every time?

How is anyone to enjoy this life when some name dropping fucking RHM thug is telling button men what to do? Have some fucking respect for your organization and at least wait till they get a button before you ride them off into the sunset. Don't second guess whether this was said in a disrespectful tone or not, it was. I don't respect anyone who openly shits on hard work and rank.

Anyways, I've gotten off the topic of your speech Orithyia and dove into replies rather than the original question, I apologize.

Do I feel like I have a chance at progression? No I do not, it's my own fault though, although I'm not sure it would matter if I tried. I take pride in knowing that I can be a respected and trusted button man, if that's all I ever amount too, fuck it. I can at least have the dignity of knowing I earned it.

Simply put, it's basically impossible to WORK (knowing someone or name dropping doesn't count as work) your way to the top.

Although I agree with a lot of what you have said Barqs, I'm not sure your very last statement is true.

Granted, it's a task to WORK your way to the top and in 95% of cases it is nigh on impossible, however, there are a couple of living examples right now that are well on their way to proving your statement is incorrect.

I'm not sure opportunities are limited now based on the numbers either. There are definitely more 'slanty' positions available now than there ever has been with the downsizing of HQ's and the LHM spot being made official by the Gods. However, I believe your statement still rings true in the sense that even though numerically there are more positions... they are also being filled by the same bloodlines over and over.

I wonder if you would be brave enough to take on an 'unknown' RHM or if this is just a bit of bravado? Because my ancestors have heard people use similar lines of "I would give new blood a chance if i had the power" and then they actually went on become one of the main powers and did completely the opposite.

As a newer member to these streets, I would love to believe that new blood gets a shot. However I've seen just the opposite. I've seen hands ranked as mademen/wiseguys, while capos, consigs have been passed over. And capos/consigs given crews while consigs/dons  and others have been passed over. The only reason for these individuals given hands or crews was bloodline.

I've nev er personally been skipped over in favor of somebody else, so this is in no way meant to suggest that. It is merely a statement of observation.

People clamor for change, so we have a huge war where Harris ends up supreme leader. Consider who were running crews and who were hands before that war and look at  who are hands and CL's now, have we really changed that much?

I can accept that, maybe practically impossible was needed in place of basically impossible. I'd like to bump up your 95% too 98-99% though, If you do not know someone 99% of the time the work you put in will not mean a fucking thing. At least not outside of your CL whose bloodline will probably be authed again 11 days after they've died.

My bloodline has been authed once or twice, new bloodlines as hands in both cases if I remember the books correctly. When they actually gave a fuck my relatives were not afraid of risks and a little extra work to bring someone along if they believed they cared. Practicing what I preach has never been a problem with me.

(My new characters are NEW characters, 98% of the time I don't even touch base with the previous family I was in. 98% of the time I don't even return to a family once I die, regardless of how I died. When I am in a family I keep to it.

The userbase is power hungry and for the most part, petty little bitches. People are afraid to change their RH and put their LH in place when they die because they're afraid of how their "friend" is gonna take it. I can accept that when a new family starts sometimes an experienced RH is needed to get the family moving quickly. Once they're dead though the chain of command should be followed. If you're a 2 month old crew with no other option too replace your RH, hang that shit up, you're obviously doing something wrong.)

Indeed it is incredibly tough and i'll give you the extra few % on top as it's all about what a specific person sees and being in the priviledged position that I am at the moment, I probably have a little more 'reach' (for want of a better word) than you so the info has come across my eyes on who is and isn't a 'first-timer' in a position of power.

I do believe we are missing out a position that most famiy's have in their structure that doesn't carry an 'official' tag like RHM or LHM. That is the position of Family Consigliere... traditionally this person is supposed to be an 'old-timer' who has a vast amount of knowledge. However... myself and my RH are experienced enough to cover those bases, so what would be the point in adding another old timer to my upper structure? They would probably have the same views as myself. So, instead I chose someone who has impressed me since I came into contact with them and to my knowledge (along with my LHM) had no previous positions of authority down their lineage.

Now, of course people could argue that the Family Consigliere is not part of the upper structure and for some bolds that may be the case. However, again through personal experience I know that it is not the case everywhere. Subtle's Consigliere before I was blessed with my position was a vital part in our cog. He was in on all family upper structure meetings and had an equal say in everything. I plan on giving my Consigliere the same priviledges.

Maybe it is this position that leaders could emphasise more importance upon and give the 'fresh blood' a chance to prove themselves?

Agreed, most people are power hungry, but we live in a dog-eat-dog world so I don't see how we could possibly change that way of thinking. After all, we are mobsters... we ALWAYS want more!

I'd have to side with your point about 'promotion from within'. I will be honest and say I'm not 100% sure I'd go down that route, as it hasn't happened to me (and I pray it never does), but it would make PERFECT sense to do that and would of course ''give people a go' at proving themselves.

Ok I will go on record, being late to this and all, I have not yet finished listening to everyone's responses. However, I would like to speak on things that I have heard thus far.

Orithyia has possibly misled a bit on our bloodline's past experiences together.  Personally, I have always been very impressed with the way she handles herself, on most occasions. But what she hasn't mentioned and I feel is slightly relevant, is the fact that our bloodlines have never actually worked together. So yes I knew she had experience, but it wasn't by no means what put her in position, nothing based on past experiences with me. And I believe I have already made it very clear in another discussion that I knew at her birth, who she was, there was never any of "hey, remember me and how awesome I was once.". She was conceived for me. I am special.

To be honest though, the way I see it, since we have never worked together, ever, I took a chance based on my observations and my having the privilege of getting to know her outside a family atmosphere. I trusted my gut and she more than lived up to expectations. She has earned every damn thing she has gotten solely based on her dedication to me, the family, and everything that comes with us. I have in no way, and not intentionally, made her job easy when she was RHW. She has done way more than I could have ever expected or asked for. Thank you Orithyia for being awesome. <3

Also, if you don't have anything productive to add to the discussion or don't wish to actually listen, then by all means feel free to continue whining about how you still can't figure out the huge, elusive mystery of Orithyia's bloodline, I never tire of listening. But I do find it disrespectful when you don't even try to participate and only see her speech as an opportunity to publicly admit you are trying to attack my family head personally.

Now I can actually speak on the topic itself, my bloodline has indeed been given RH based on solely working hard and not ever previously working with/known the crewleader.  When my great great, etc grandfather was made rh of Rodents, I earned that position from being a superstar. Having great communication with my boss and just generally being a role model family member. Was it a huge leap for him? Probably, but it does happen. And it worked out magically for us. Also, I know for a fact he LH was the same. As when I was given my chance at bold. Yes, I was in fact RH to a friend of  GF Harris' but when I joined his family he and I had never spoken prior. I did work hard for him and when I joined Clary as RH. And after the war he could have easily had me go back into his family, but instead he chose to let the ball keep rolling. He granted me my own family, solely based off how hard I worked for him and Clary, no past ties.

Hell, I am doing it with my LH. We never met until he was brought into the family and worked his way through the family positions and now he is trusted to be my lh, no past experience.

I think an interesting point raised here is raised in regards to the Consigliere position as well as the advent of the LHM position being officially recognised by City Hall.

Many moons ago, and I'm talking before many of you people would even have been around our shores, I recall the days when the Left Hand Man and Consigliere positions were interchangeable - synonymous, even. Granted there were some families in which there was a clear distinction and the 'Wise old man' role was separate; but for the most part the standard hierarchy was that the officially recognised RHM organised and 'ran' the day-to-day Crew activities in an administrative position, whilst the LHM/Consigliere was more of a 'lurking' figure who operated outside of the hierarchy and interacted directly with the Boss as his closest advisor.

Maybe I remember the past too romantically, but in the days when subcrews were in vogue I recall at least three or four different occasions where Subcrew Leaders who proved their meditating and organisational skills were given a shot at the slanty role; then again, these were the days in which I recall entire Families being massacred on a few different occasions because of an errant RHM so perhaps there's a correlation. On the surface, it looks as though the 'only giving the spot to people you know' approach has eradicated this problem because it's been a while since we've seen a mass 'HQing'. I think that's a false argument, though; the changes city hall made to HQ wack have solved this problem.

Consider in the past few weeks, and this is just what I'm aware of that immediately springs to mind, the following things have happened in the prevailing mindset of 'only picking people you know/trust as rhm'

- Hand killed by their CL as they were believed to be plotting a coup with the Godfather
- Hand is exposed/suspected of plotting a war, sacrifices self to try and save Family
- Hand killed by their CL as they were believed to be being disrespectful towards him
- Hand killed by their CL as they pushed the boundaries 1 time too many
- Hand goes rogue, frames another mobster, and takes a dirt nap as well as his CL
- In the former instance, the other mobster is also a hand and is rubbed out before his side can be heard
- Hand goes rogue, kills another mobster for personal reasons and places his crew at risk

Again, these are just the instances that spring to mind instantly, I'm sure if I stopped and thought about it I could name a couple more. My intention here is not to drag up old debates and flog the dead horse; merely to point out that in recent times there have been numerous high profile incidents where Hands who were known and trusted (if not by the CL themselves than by other members of the city structure) violated that trust. That being the case, is there a plausible argument against giving a newer, less-known member an opportunity?

Another prevailing mindset is one borne out of equal parts necessity and paranoia, in my opinion, and that is the idea that a Crewleader chooses his or her slanties based on when they're available. The RH/LH positions are essentially interchangeable and are given to old heads based on when they are around. In the past, I could may have understood this. In the current climate, though, it's totally unnecessary in my opinion. Leaders do not exist in a bubble anymore, they are invariably part of a larger structure who can act in their absence in emergency matters if their own crew structure is unavailable. Coupled to this, the attackers of bodyguards and HQ forts are now almost instantly spotted by a regular member of the family, negating the need to constantly have an upper-structure 'watchman' around. Add all of this to the fact that, in this day and age, almost all the Leaders are able to be contacted in some way if they are unavailable, and it makes the practice of assigning roles to your family based on the hours they keep somewhat obsolete.

Considering everything I've put forward, it would naturally follow that the sensible thing to do would give your RHM position to someone who knows you inside out and can act as you would act in your absence. The LHM role, with it's restricted 'capabilities' is therefore the perfect role for a mobster seeking advancement and more responsibility; both a training ground, a platform to push on from, and a stage on which they can present themselves in a positive light.

Something to think about, anyway.
 

I think that the sky is the limit for determined people with a hard work ethic. I'd be crazy to try and argue that ancestry doesn't play a big role in your success (or failure) but that's what happens when coffee shop relationships have such a huge impact on our world.

I think the reason why ancestry is involved because the CL knows that the person with a well known bloodline will do his best as his forefathers did. The GF/CL trusted his father so he trusted him as well.

The position of being a hand or being a family's consigliere is given to a person that has proved his worth to the CL. The CL trusted that person to act like a model to the whole crew as well as to train that person on how to handle the crew. Maybe ancestry is involved but that is not always the case. Maybe he just proved himself worthy of that person and coincidentally he came from a known bloodline. 

I believe that people from unknown bloodline will be given a chance to prove his worth and become a hand or even a CL. Don't lose hope. We all want power and that is how this world works. Just prove yourself and don't blame other people when things don't happen the way you want.

Hmmm, how fitting this speech is even in this day and age from my ancestor, Orithyia.

I'm sure it is not "the best a city has to offer" in most situations. The problem is, many of the best have no desire or interest in running a family. The ambition and exuberance it takes to be highly qualified to run a family often comes with youth and inexperience. With that in mind, you will have to make a decision whether a boss should be wise and experienced, or inexperienced but strong and active.

"It's the beat Las Vegas has to offer, while hoping to snag kin folk from the bloody apple incident."

Except these auths were planned before NY got attacked and would have went up regardless if there was a war or not.

And you dont have the slightest clue what we have to offer kid.

You have fuck all to offer, that's what you have to offer.

Duplicity raises her eyebrow at how Ragnarok spoke to Seph.

"I'm sorry, who are you?"

Duplicity shakes her head.

"Las Vegas has a lot to offer. They may be slow to take off, but you can't judge a book by its cover. I also have to question why you think you can talk to the leader of Vegas like that? Who's high horse did you roll in on?"

"I suggest you go sit down, reflect a moment on things, and when you learn to show some respect. You can continue this conversation."

Realized she is talking to a dead body and whistles innocently. She then heads over to the nearest bar to pretend it was the alcohol.