Cantona watched with a small degree of amusement as people stumbled around uncertainty; looking in phone boxes and windows for the taped up flyer they would have sworn they remember seeing earlier.

Ladies and Gentleman, I am sure many of you are a little confused over where the transcripts of the South Side Godfather's speech have gone. Rest assured, you are not going insane! City Hall have whisked away all copies of this speech and locked them in a cavernous underground chamber which also contains Tesla's lost work, the missing book of Plato's Hermocrates, and also missing gospel of Mary Magdalen. Their reasons for doing so will be explored fully a little later.

First, though, I must divulge my own reasons in showing my unfairly handsome face in our dear Streets once again. First of all; in the absence of the Chicago Godfathers, and as someone who was present before, during and after the takedown of Detroit, I feel I am reasonably well qualified to paraphrase and repeat the reasons ChaosSpike stated for the razing of Downtown and Black Bottom, Detroit. Secondly, as a large contributor to the original discussion I feel I can do an adequate job to explain the direction the discussion took and the relevant points that were discussed; moreover, I'm frankly disappointed that through the actions of others, the renown I had gained with my own contributions (VIP points) has been lost, and I'm here to make up for that!

Onwards and upwards then; the 'war' itself. I will try to keep this as brief as possible, but please forgive any lengthy tangents; I am well known for verbosity and the late McDermott offered Chicago so much rope with which to hang him with that recent estimates are suggesting it could have been used to lasso the moon.

- The attempted sowing of discord and enmity in Chicago by McDermott probably amounted to the biggest factor; his aim of pitting district against district and creating civil war in Illinois for his own gain was not entertained by the Chicago hierarchy, who desired a public indication that they are as solid as ever as a cohesive unit; whilst still able to maintain their independence and autonomy as Districts

- The tensions between myself and McDermott during my time in the Bronx. This is possible icing sugar on the cherry rather than the sponge in the cake or even the cherry itself. Nevertheless, ChaosSpike mentioned it so I will to. It was suggested or confirmed by several sources that Downtown and Black Bottom were sniffing around people to back them in wacking me, apparently for no other reason than McDermott not liking the way he was spoke to. This was part of an endemic problem:

- McDermott was seen to be, if not confrontational, then certainly passive-aggressive and unpredictable (if not paranoid). These are not desirable qualities in a Godfather and whilst he alone did not pose a particularly real threat to the existence of Chicago, he could still cause significant damage, if not with his gun than with his poisonous words.

- Following on from this, his conduct and the way he held himself in general was seen as not befitting for a man of his rank. I will not go into specifics here but suffice to say there were comments and instances which Chicago felt were unacceptable. Others yet may feel that this wasn't the case but ultimately it was Chicago holding the guns; if its senior figures felt that comments weren't in jest, or that they did indeed feel personally offend, then that is entirely their prerogative.

- In addition to McDermott, QuintenTarantino was removed as a measure of prudence. This was solely down to how McDermott and Tarantino presented their relationship to the public and to other districts; handling administrative details for a crewleader in another district and going to war with them is something that will naturally associate you with that crewleader in the minds of others. I'm sure Chicago would expect the same treatment, even if they did not hope for it.

Naturally, as all war speeches do, things quickly devolved into a game of 'who can shout the loudest and for how long?'. It is perhaps interesting to note that the accusation of a Chicagoan Right Hand Man having previously 'cheated their way to the top' (to paraphrase) was leveled without a noticeable, but the line in the sand was drawn with the 'rape' comments.

This essentially boils down to something very simple. The victors used a series of unsavoury comments made by the late Godfather in the coffeeshops as a partial justification for his removal. The offspring of the losers asserted that these comments were entirely out of context and the victors responded that, even in context, certain statements certainly didn't paint the Godfather in a more favourable light. Further; this wasn't the cherry picking of an isolated event, McDermott's conduct on irc was unacceptable on several different occasions.

Nevertheless, City Hall stepped in and took action by removing all details of the war. Personally, I feel this was a little overzealous - those who had contributed and not overstepped the bounds were 'punished' as much as those who had, and the comments which did overstep the bounds were a minority in what was largely a rather engaging topic which ebbed and flowed rather well. This is why I am here now.

That said, no one can fault City Hall for stepping in, truly. There is a time in which comments may stop addressing the career of a particular individual, and instead may focus on their actual personality, or that of their bloodline. When that happens, City Hall does become culpable and they must protect their interests.

OOC:

Attacking someone's bloodline is fine provided it is related to the game itself. For example; a bloodline being repeatedly a hitter, or untrustworthy, or a a crappy street speaker, or whatever. When the attack on someone's bloodline stops addressing how they play the game and passes judgement on their actual beliefs, morals or character as a real person - shit can get real heavy. No matter how justified or provable, throwing certain accusations around has the potential to leave the game and its staff legally liable; so I can totally understand the admins decision to act upon this. That said, I do feel that it was done in a slightly heavy handed way and that, further, it would have been nice to send out a massmail what was going on (as a follow up to the original massmail in regards to this thread) so people don't have to find out 2nd/3rd hand which takes up more time for everyone any may colour their perceptions of what happened before they're even fully aware of what is going on

War speeches are great, they're often my bloodline's favourite part of war because, regardless of which side I have been on, the debate is fantastic. It's unique, it's current, it's impassioned, fiery and chock full of propaganda. You see months worth of frustrations and grudges erupt like a volcano - creating fertile soil perfect for fostering fantastic debate in its stead.

I would love to see this speech as a continuation of the previous one as it was (with a few notable unsavoury exceptions) engaging, well thought out and easily and unequivocally the most interesting thing in the Streets. That said, if you do contribute, I advise you to think carefully before you do. Are you attacking someone's credibility as Mobster or as a person? Bashing someone's bloodline is fine if you're specifically referencing their mafia career; but are you doing that or are you passing judgement on that person's beliefs which have no bearing on how they act as an individual in the Mafia?

If the latter is your answer, I advise you to have that discussion in a private, perhaps more informal setting. If it's the former, I welcome your contributions!

no disrespect intended but it wasn't a war...it was a senseless massacre

You say po-tay-to, I say poh-tah-to.

Tour guide you are quite clearly misguided. In our world the perfect wars are takedowns.

An ideal war is one in which you lose none of your men.

This was the case here.

It should not be the case of what happened, it should be where we go from here.

Detroit is left leaderless and empty. I'm happy that they're were no innocents or travelers (as I was a few days ago) caught in the cross-fire. I am more impressed by the speed and efficiency of the takedown then the takedown itself.

While it could have been left unexplained, I truly believe people are appreciative of explanations behind a war, or as TourGuide coined it, a "senseless massacre". Quite frankly I'm happy with calling it either of the two. However, given Cantona's detailed and well-spoken reasonings, I hardly see how it was senseless, even though I would still be standing here applauding even if it was.

I'd like to thank Cantona for re-announcing this, not only because I always appreciate hearing a war explanation, but also because I, like others have said, enjoy watching the show.

Johnnyo - Detroit, leaderless and empty? I'm sure Godfather Subtle and Don Crewleader BrickTop from Corktown in Detroit appreciate being completely overlooked in public!

Onto the reasonings provided for this, McDermott sounds as if he was acting like he was holding all the power in his hands. I mean if you know you can be wiped off the face of the earth in a matter of minutes, any normal person would act respectfully and un-abrasively in general and try to get along with those in power. Unfortunately for him by the sounds of it the people who actually hold all the power got tired of putting up with his crap and put an end to the entire organisation. Even ignoring everything else that happened I'd consider that reason enough to kill them all. RIP to those that died!

Detroit is left leaderless and empty. I'm happy that they're were no innocents or travelers (as I was a few days ago) caught in the cross-fire. I am more impressed by the speed and efficiency of the takedown then the takedown itself.

"I would like to inform you that my godfather is a resident of Detroit and still alive and kicking. Not sure why you wouldn't count him as he is a great man of good standing and a leader of Detroit. Just felt this needed to be said."

MidnightSmoker lights up a cigarette and heads off into the night for another money making opportunity.

Subtle - The Godfather of Corktown, is in Detroit, Mr. Johnnyo.. Next time, better check things first before you open your mouth. It is rude to say that Detroit is leaderless and empty while we are here, the ILB and Slaughterhouse, working so hard for this city.

belldandy raised her eyebrows then flipped her hair before leaving the crowd to do some work for the city of Detroit.

Talk about liking the sound of your own voice. 

All that and not one mention about DeadlySpikeS extorting his members for gambling money. 

lolol Oh Grin. You silly billy. 

Nice put Cantona. I would add to it, but I'm already lost my voice from speaking the last time. 

I think these allegations of extortion by DeadlySpikeS should be investigated. Immediately. THE MASSES NEED TO KNOW.

What -allegations-? Everybody knows that's true.

Underdog- I think if you were on the other side of this so called 'war' you would have a different opinion

EricNorthman- He just chose not to be an ass kisser, and last time I checked a don gets whacked and someone is elected to replace him in the mafia (The killer can never be a Don tho), not his whole organization killed...

and FYI Detroit's still strong with Subtle and Bricktop and will remain strong for a long time

no disrespect intended but it wasn't a war...it was a senseless massacre

Reply by: TourGuide at Sep 27, '13 18:14

I agree with TourGuide. It was more of massacre than war.

Our fathers (TourGuide and I) did nothing to get killed.

Taking McDermott out was great Idea!

Taking QT out was a good idea.

Taking everyone else out was a dumbass move! They didnt do anything to get killed!

I am going to keep saying that and no one listens....

Taking everyone else out was a dumbass move! They didnt do anything to get killed!

Your fathers did nothing to get killed? How about joining McDermott or Quinten's  respective districts? How about swearing loyalty to them? Your father hitched his wagon to McDermott and now when you realize that it was bad move... you call yourself innocent? Your father wasn't just casual business associates with McDermott and QT.. he was Family.

Wasn't your father a hand to one of the Godfathers Joey_Tribbiani? A right hand man if i recall correctly?

And you're honestly trying to tell me you think you're an innocent? That's laughable and quite frankly hilarious that a Godfather would chose to put his trust in a person that clearly wasn't even loyal enough to him that they would expect to go down fighting with him. Or for that matter mount any retaliation if they were left unscathed. 

Its funny how everyone that is ASSUMING that everyone in the districts knew what was going between McDermott and Chicago. You guys are making assumptions that everyone knew including  the hands of the Godfather. Once you can prove me wrong that EVERYONE knew in Detroit (QT and McDermotts Districts) then maybe ill change my stance.

We don't need to prove you wrong. The logic behind removing anyone who was potentially a threat was that the risk to the livelihood of anyone in Chicago (and indeed our esteemed colleagues in Cork Town) would be severely reduced.

Pick up a newspaper for September the 25th and you'll see that not a single Chicagoan is mentioned in the obits as a result of the conflict; which in itself is a demonstrable confirmation of the fact that the strategy used was brutally effective. Are we claiming that everyone in Detroit was 'in on things' and that is why they were slain? Of course not, we're just claiming that those who died were collateral damage. It's a shame, but I'm much happier with some folks running with McDermott getting gunned down in their sleeps as opposed to losing any of my own comprades, that much I can assure you of.

To suggest matters are usually decided by the removal of one persons is ridiculous, incidentally. There may have been one or two instances where this has been the case, but it is clearly the exception rather than the rule. To genuinely think otherwise is laughably naive; and not in a cute, endearing, childlike way - but in a 'How are you allowed to leave the house with a helmet?' kind of way.

Joey it dont matter that anyone else knew what was going on between Mcdermott and Chicago You where part of his or QTs organisation Therefore Guilty by association.

The Chicago crime syndicates gunned down everyone as they didnt know who will shoot back or not better to err on the side of caution.