..the "traditional way."

I should really add a couple of disclaimers before everyone starts jumping on my back and turning this off topic. Firstly I in no mean look to devalue the position of Crew Leader, it's the (arguably) highest honour that can be bestowed on any mobster and what many strive for in this world of ours. This is just a light hearted, I dare say "satirical" speech and non-exhaustive list about why YOU are probably never going to get the chance to run your own crew unless you enter a competition. Free free to add you and convince me and yourself otherwise.

Desmand winks

1) You're male. Think about how manyth female mobsters we have this world, probably not that many. I'll be honest I don't have any hard facts to back this up with but I'm positive that being female puts you in a better position to receive auth quicker within this world and I bet a high percentage of the females in this world are crew leaders. Men are suckers for women (or most are) and generally will do anything to ensure their female friends are happy. Giving them a crew is a sure fire way to try and get in their pants quicker, and it's no surprise that the same females seem to constantly receive auth every bloodline. Don't believe me? Remember the late great TeQ bloodline aka Orithyia. He knew that being female was the case and what do you know, few giggles here and there and he's running his own crew. Coincidence? I think not. 

2) You're too active. Activity is the number one killer round these parts. Look at all those inactive mobsters that have been given the chance at running their own crew, that's how they reward you. Post May war, who got most of the auths? Inactives. Spending time trying to shoot the bad guys results in your untimely death most of the time. So yeah take a little time away in the old country, activity reeks of threat and threats don't get their own crews. Even right now the inactive mobsters in this world are being rewarded, don't say I didn't warn you.

3) You speak too much. Do you remember that mobster that made all those greats speeches in the streets and told excellent stories to entertain the children? No me neither. My advice is don't talk on the streets, that's not how you get ahead in this life of ours. Spend a little more time in the coffee shops or training your gun, that's where all the decisions are made. I promise you. Which leads me nicely onto.

4) Your gun sucks. Spend a little less time talking on the streets and a little more time shooting anything and everything you can see. Best earner in the family? Congratulations, you're paying for that guy who donates nothing and just shoots all day bodyguards when he finally gets the family. Why is your Boss going to waste that crew leader gun boost on YOU? Be realistic here now. All the talking and bonds are made in your families hit squad room. So a little less conversation a little more action please. You'll thank me later. 

5) Your bloodline has had auth 5 times before.  Nobody is going to take a "risk" on you if your blood line hasn't had auth numerous times in the past. There's too much "risk" apparently. Incompetent crew leader or otherwise it doesn't matter so long as it down on your C.V...somewhere. How do you crack this catch 22? Probably work on steps 2,3 and 4 and hope for the best. But seriously if you aren't in the coffee shops you will never get your own crew. So try and head over there some time too. 

Desmand sits back whilst others add their own.

Tony listens to Desmand speech and nods amazed at some of his speaking points.  Tony now has some things to think on as he reviews some of his grand father and fathers notes of this very subject.  Lighting a cigar he continues walking on down the street. 

Remember the late great TeQ bloodline aka Orithyia. He knew that being female was the case and what do you know, few giggles here and there and he's running his own crew. Coincidence? I think not. 

Um, I am more than sure TeQ's crew leader was the only one that knew from the start who he was. The whole being born female was just to help him keep his identity hidden not an attempt to further his career. TeQ's destiny was predetermined long before the birth. I believe Subtle attempted to make that very clear many many times, but for some reason, some still failed to pay attention.

So that was a horrible example.

Actually most of this rambling is pretty easily explained if people would just pay a bit more attention. I could explain most, if not all of the reasoning to why but chances are high you won't get it, seeings how you don't already.  Except your second point, that one is way off base.

You know what, fuck it, I don't have much going on I'll try to explain the whys of the way things work the way they do.

Of the 35ish crews gracing our streets around 7ish, give or take, are female so where exactly do you get your basis for your first point? I have already explained how you were way off base with the TeQ example so where does this being female thing come from, would there not be a whole lot more females in power if that was the case?

You're too active? You mentioned that so many people got auth from not being around much but gave no examples. From what I have noticed at least lately that really isn't the case. And I do remember a couple either stepping down or being shot for not being around enough. I don't really want to argue whether the point was valid or not, but Finnick to name one.  There was a whole they went rogue when told to step down debate about the whole thing but that's another story.

As for your third point, well this is something that has been mentioned one million times, this world is not what your bloodline remembers, has been told about or what is once was. Times change and you either move with them or rehash the same boring point another million times. Yes, the street presences aren't what they may have been at one time but it seems the only people that care about that aren't doing much about it except complaining and reminiscing.  Hammering the point into the ground has been done over and over and guess what, still no one cares. And to be fair, there are still some out there that love the streets. I won't name them all but two that spring to mind right now, WiggleButt and Cantona, since birth I have seen them up and down the streets. My apologizes to the others, I mean no disrespect.

Really, this needs explained? Really? Yeah, good guns get authed. Why are you surprised about that? Being bold gives your good gun a good boost. Good guns win wars, earners help absolutely but last time I checked throwing money at your enemy isn't really a great war strategy.  Throwing bullets however, is. Earners help rebuild after the war and fund during the war, everyone has a place. Let's not forget pro wackers, God bless them. Smiles

And again, can't believe this point needs explained. Your bloodline has been authed 5 times and going for a sixth, well hmm, maybe because the person doing the authing fucking trusts you. You tell me, when you auth someone, well maybe not you, but when someone auths they are looking for trust. They want someone they can go to sleep at night knowing they will be able to wake up in the morning. How the fuck is it a good idea to auth someone that may potentially shoot you in your sleep? Doesn't make a lot of sense, so yes if I was to auth someone it most likely would be someone I have worked closely with and most likely someone experienced. Not saying I wouldn't auth someone who has never been bold, but I would have to have worked with them and built a trust. It's called investing in longevity.

There I'm done and I feel better getting it all out.

I dare not claim to know Desmand's frame of mind or exact intent when writing this thread but I feel you took this a little seriously in your rant.

With regards to the points brought up things don't really change around here, in the 10 or so years my bloodline has walked these streets people are usually authed for more or less the same reason. I don't feel like picking apart point by point in laborious detail as I think that has been covered. (see above)

With regards to the point about being male, Precision, I don't really care to check but you said 7/35 crewleaders were female and had a very "what of it" attitude towards this. Just to pause for a moment, 7/35 is 1 in 5, or 20%... In a userbase that is close to 95% male that is a fairly large deviation from the norm. The reasons for which are not sexist (I don't see them as sexist, but I am confident someone will find my opinions offensive) Simply put the women who play this game are, on the whole, far more 1) Mature and 2) Trustworthy. It is true that (On average) the female members of our community find themselves embroiled in a whole host of drama's but when it comes to general responsibility and loyalty they are head and shoulders ahead of their male counterparts.

I would have to agree someone with the activity point of late though, in yesteryear it took A LOT to get noticed and be given the opportunity for a family of your own, many of your fellow family men had the same level of loyalty and more or less the same sort of gun, but what it came down to was activity. People who didn't rank in the minimum amount of time, were seldom afforded the opportunity for auth. With a far more relaxed working environment we now have crewleaders who sit at Boss for weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks and more troubling than all people are authed simply for the reason that they are inactive and less likely to pose a threat. People don't like the leaders that are pulling 18 hour shifts and racking up 18-20 kills a day, they are too much of a threat, rather plod along... 

Meh, you speak too much? I have admittedly been a bit busy on the profit side of things to notice who has and who hasn't been yapping in the streets lately but in general our way of life is secretive and it is in this speakers humble opinion that the kinds of people that feel the need to flap their mouths in the streets on every bit of business, are not really the kinds of people that should be leading. Feel free to disagree. I know you will.

Your gun sucks. Good guns get authed, sometimes they make good leaders, more often than not they make lousy ones but if they put the support in place beneath them once they have killed everyone else they usually live a long time. These lives usually only end when people are tired of having to do all the work for them or some epic war. (AKA Phil_Steak/Odin etc etc etc)

People who are multiple auths, get authed more. They have obviously proven themselves trustworthy, so yeah makes sense.

The number one reason you aren't getting auth is quite simply, people don't trust you. More than you don't have a gun, more than you aren't active enough or too active, more than you have a penis, more than you are an idiot (even they get authed), people just don't trust you. If people think you are as likely to stab them in the back as you are to eat breakfast that morning, their probably isn't going to be a long line of people waiting to auth you.

If you have rogued multiple times and shot at popular people (shooting at people that the community generally doesn't like is acceptable) you are probably not going to be authed either.

That being said, if you are actively trying and unable to get authed in the current climate when we have 105 people in suits or slanties, you need to take a long hard look at yourself and question what it is you are doing wrong.

I would have to agree, when ranting, I didn't take into account the state of mind of Desmand, well not until you just mentioned it. To be honest it was the whole female's using female ways to get ahead that kinda set me off.

Basically, the point I was attempting to make was, if that was the case, wouldn't we have more females in power? I agree also with your point of why the females that are in power, are. Not sure if 95% of the community is male though but I took my numbers as a rough count that I didn't double check myself, so we can go with it.  I don't think just being female gives you a leg up.

As far as the gun point, I was suggesting why the guns get auth over the earners, whether or not they end up being good at the job.

For the most part, my blood has been around about the same amount of time as yours, sir, and to say things have changed a lot would be an understatement. All in all I think we are mostly on the same page about things, it boils down to trust. Do the people in power to give you auth trust you enough to give it to you.

Sorry, but I got to the part about "being male" being an obstacle to getting auth and I was torn between shaking my head and sighing, and bursting out into a fit of giggles.

Although I'm sure this is intended as a highly satirical thing and I'm certainly sure that you think it's hilarious - I do find your attitude towards the women of our world quite worrying.

I'm not going to touch the TeQ bloodline example you gave, because, as has already been described, you were a long way off base. Although I do miss grabing Orithyia's boobs. It was fun while I thought they were real.

Ziva holds a minutes silence for memories of Orithyia's boobs.

Now, in all serious, what IS worrying, is your implication that women get authed because men are trying to get into our pants. To me, that shows a complete and utter lack of respect for every female crew leader out there. You think there is nothing more to us than what goes on in our pants? You think that we're all so desperate to get ahead that we'll whip our tits out for anyone offering a bold suit?

Fuck that.

I don't presume to speak for every female, but it's downright crude and sexist to suggest that part of the reason that females in general get authed is because we're putting out for it. Grow the fuck up.

I can quite honestly and happily say that neither of the Godfather's who authed my bloodline have been anywhere NEAR our pants.

Now, I am NOT a fan of running around and putting a "sexist" label on everything for the sake of doing so, but even in satire, your attitude towards the female population here is fucking vile, in my opinion.

I think i will have to agree with Ziva on her point there, There have been many great Female bloodlines that have easy put there male counterparts to shame with there ability to organise a city/District build a gun ect.

While it is an attempt at satire as Ziva has pointed out it is done in very poor taste and Is a slap in the face to many of the great female mafiosa that have graced these shores.

To name a few Tita,Eve,Silk,Jynx,Ladyfighter,Tiggy and Draven I know there has been more but thats just off the top of my head

Courage jumps from a garbage can, eating half of a pickle and what seems to be some sort of soup in a can. He looks around before noticing the distinct horns and slimy forehead of the troll, being mocked and attacked by countless good-doers. Do they not see what I see? Thinks Courage, before popping out of the garbage and scaring most of the men and women away.

Who cares what this one man thinks? He either really believes the model crew leader is an inactive female with a shit gun who never comes onto the streets, in which case he is clearly not sexist, but a misguided idiot; or he realizes he was going to piss people off and did it anyways for a few laughs; which I believe Ziva even noted before jumping into the deep end and ignoring her better judgement, but I'm sure women everywhere are proud that they were stood up for in a universe wherein there's about six-hundred of us... seriously, has anyone noticed how empty these cities are or is it just me? Hm. Yeah, just me? I thought so.

Anyways, what was I saying? Guys... hey! Where did everyone go?

Looking around, he notices he forgot to get out of the garbage and was imaging this entire conversation he just had, freaky... maybe I shouldn't have drank that bottle marked "Don't Drink" in big red letters... oh look, a banana! Mine!

Ignored my better judgement, Courage? I think not. Perhaps I just had the 'courage' to challenge an incredibly lazy, at best, stereotype which I've heard bandied about this place far too often, that all the females here are nothing but carefree sluts who fuck our way to the top. Shit, I even had it suggested to me not too long ago that the only reason my Great-Grandmother got auth was because she was having a ride on Cpt-Harris' dick at the time.

So no, I did not "ignore my better judgement". My better judgement is that this stereotype is pathetic and misleading and should be challenged when it rears its ugly head in any form, because it leads to us being treated like sexual objects by some of the sleazier characters in this world, for the SOLE reason that we are female; literally, they need no other encouragement than that, BECAUSE of that sort of pathetic, sexiest stereotype.

So I don't give a shit whether he's a misguided idiot or he's doing it to piss people off. My better judgement is that that is a vile way to speak about the female population in general, and that it is correct to challenge it publicly. And don't make out that this is some kind of feminist crusade. It's really not. This sort of shit, though, does not need to be said and it devalues to contributions that all female crew leaders have made to our world.

Okay, well it seems to me like this conversation has fallen from the Streets to OOC, so I'll stop trying to roleplay for a moment and field on a few of these things. Someone above just said that women get their position because they're smarter and more mature than the men on in general, does that mean I should yell at him for devaluing men? Probably not, because it doesn't matter. You got where you are and of course people are going to slander the shit out of you for it, they do that no matter what sex you are. Is it annoying? I'm sure. Does it make you mad? Well, clearly. Would this line of a select few thinking these things stop you from getting leader again? No.

Not to mention the fact that this story usually plays out less like "Women are more prone to CL because they'll fuck to the top." and more "Women are more prone to CL because men on the internet are horny pricks and will give a cute female whatever she wants in hope that she'll continue talking to him." which I believe holds more negative connotations towards men than women.

Just because one guy made a joke thread about something which, clearly you've had a problem with in the past, doesn't mean attacking him is going to make everyone stop their line of thinking and follow in with yours. The people who believe women are going to always get preferential treatment will always think this way and there's frankly nothing you can do about it except for ignore them and continue working your way up the ladder.

That, or you can debate it every time it comes up for funsies I guess. In which case, have a blast?

Courage, you're missing the point. Which isn't entirely surprising. Maybe instead of attacking at my judgement, you should take a good long look at your own.

What I'm trying to say here, isn't any kind of girl power shit. Don't turn this into something it isn't. My point here, is don't treat me differently just because I am a woman, and I won't treat you any differently because you are a man.

It DOESN'T fucking matter. NONE of this should be an issue. And as an extension of that, untrue, slanderous and misleading interpretations should not be being used to devalue the hard work put in by a lot of female bloodlines over the years. Judge me on what I actually do, not what you think that I do because I am a woman. It's not that this shit makes me mad, my friend. It's that this shit makes me feel downright uncomfortable with this world sometimes. It's a shame, really. The fact is that there are plenty of people out there who are quite willing to view women solely as sex objects and sluts and to treat all women around here that way, regardless of whether they know them or not. That should not be tolerated or encouraged, and bullshit like this, does encourage it.

It's the fact that this stereotype exists that is the problem, NOT that it bothers people that they are looked at in this way.

And, although you seem to have come down with a horrible case of OOCitis in making your point about it being about "horny pricks and cute females", you're pretty much just putting the stereotype into an other worldly context, not proving that it doesn't exist. "Cute female" allows "horny male" to do shit for her, and encourages him to do so by leading him on; flirting, showing pictures, whatever.

I think it's probably time that more people accepted here that male and female players can be friends without anybody getting naked.

Now. This thread, yeah, it's a joke. It's a joke in fucking INCREDIBLY poor taste, though. And it's less about attacking him, and more about attacking the way that he thinks it is acceptable to make this kind of comment in any context. The more this stereotype is allowed to exist in any form without challenge, the longer this way of thinking of the women here in that kind of disrespectful light is going to continue.

I strongly suggest that anybody who thinks that females get preferential treatment try seeking out a female relative as the next in their line on these shores. See how preferential they find their own flesh and blood being bothered by creeps.

I'll debate this as long as it needs debating. No skin off my nose.

Blaise listens thoughtfully to Desmand's words, and mentally made a few notes.

Although I am sure Desmand came up with this list in an attempt to make light of a situation that affects us all one way or another, I did want to address some points.

Being too active and speaking too much...I am not sure how this would coincide with not getting auth unless these people spend all of their time socializing and not enough time working.

In one instance you say that it's better to do nothing because if you spend your time shooting, you could possibly get killed. But then in another you say those with guns get rewarded with auth. So I am a bit confused here.

About the being male part...to be honest, some women feel that other women get to certain levels for the same reasons. I feel women have to work harder and put up with more crap to get ahead, and as a result, become better leaders for it. So even though I personally disagree with this point, I have seen both men and women subscribe to this way of thinking, unfortunately.

Ok, Anybody need a chill-pill? I'm handing them out for free! You know, Christmas spirit and all that.

Don't fall for it! AlexMoran is notorious for handing out roofies.

I am a man in a tutu. Am I REALLY going to roofie anyone? You decide.

Well this topic certainly escalated quickly, before dropping back down into the nonsensical and irrelevant tripe which often surrounds these kinds of discussions.

A few points I'd like to make since some people mustn't have been paying attention when I uttered the words "light hearted" near the beginning. Firstly I'm well aware that Orithyias crew leader was aware of his actual sex and bloodline, but that just wouldn't be help in backing up my points now would it? Thank you though for pointing that out Precision, despite the fact any mobster that had done their history will have seen in numerous of the late Subtles speeches that he himself confirmed he knew Orithyias true identity. Secondly as has been pointed out since by others with a grasp on statistics, I was referring to percentages. A higher percentage of women as a whole are leaders compared with men.

Thirdly there are numerous very inactive or incredibly inactive leading to Auth crew leaders right now; it would be foolish of me to name any though. Fourthly I didn't and never intended for this to be some kind of battle of the sexes type debate. In the past my ancestors have worked for both males and females and have never thought one was more vastly superior then the other. And finally Blaise, when you speak you bring yourself into the spotlight and thus there is more scrutiny as people pick apart and often decontextualise your words. Does your leader want to risk his whole districts demise by a loud opinionated under boss? Times are changing and gone are the days when the streets made or broke you. The last part is fairly simple, if you're going to be active..train your gun well. Otherwise stay inactive and fly under the radar. 

​I thank everyone for their exuberance, it's a shame nobody added any of their own points. 

The number one reason you aren't getting auth is quite simply, people don't trust you. More than you don't have a gun, more than you aren't active enough or too active, more than you have a penis, more than you are an idiot (even they get authed), people just don't trust you. If people think you are as likely to stab them in the back as you are to eat breakfast that morning, their probably isn't going to be a long line of people waiting to auth you.

I thought someone did?

And, you can be opinionated without being disrespectful, which is what you are referring to I think. People need something to do while waiting for the next crime opportunity - can't sit around and drink coffee all of the time, right?

I said you could come out of the dog cage and go run around in the back yard of the head quarters Ragnarok. See, THIS is why you aren't getting auth! I turn my back for one minute, and you're telling everybody about the dog cage!

Now, Desmand. I paid plenty of attention to you saying light hearted. But as I have explained several times - although clearly the weight of your misogyny is blocking your ears - the kind of disrespectful "joke" that you made, was not, in my opinion, at all appropriate, and, again, in my opinion, contributes to the pathetic stereotypes that make our world incredibly unpleasant sometimes for female players.

I don't think that I can put things ANY more plainly than that.

If I see something that I think is a total crock of shit, I'll say so. The way you referenced women and our behavior and successes, my friend, was a total crock of shit.

You want to make that kind of joke in public, fine. But THAT is the irrelevant tripe. That joke never needed be made. Don't be surprised when you get bullshit called on it.