Ziva has spent much of the morning running about town, trying to get her daily tribute to DanTheMan earned before going out on the hunt for stories for her Daily Roundup. As she'd been heading down the main street, however, hoping to extort some protection money from a small store holder off one of the many side streets shooting off it, she'd heard Billy speaking, announcing a new contest. Her first instinct had been to pull her notepad out of her bag and begin scrawling down the details so that she could work it into her newspaper later. When she'd finished listening to him speak, though, she began to think.

Ever the student, Ziva had for some time now been studying the journals of her ancestors. Some were short little pamphlets detailing quickly spent lives on these shores, some were longer, sturdier, filled with notes and stories and anecdotes. One of the bigger collections belonged to her Grandmother and namesake, Ziva, who had lead the crew 'FEDERAL AGENTS' out of North Side, Chicago. It was to this, more than any of the other writings, that she thought back to now.

She was wary of speaking, the youngster. Her ancestors had always been vocal, her sister choosing to end her short life on these shores before she caused real trouble, her grandmother having had her future discussed by the Godfather Council due to her lack of fear of speaking out. Ziva herself though... she didn't want to cause any trouble for her crew leader. But she also didn't want her voice to go unheard, lost beneath the babble of the crowd, unable to speak her mind or even speak anything of substance. That simply wasn't the family way, it wasn't who she wanted to be. 

Her mind made up, she makes her way out onto the opposite side of the streets to that where Billy had pitched up to make his speech and answer the questions of those passing by and curious. Pushing her hair back with a quick sweep of her hand and nudging her glasses up her nose, feeling a touch of the nerves coming upon her - this was a different feeling altogether than writing and distributing the paper, after all - she cleared her throat softly, and began to speak.

Ladies and gentlemen, I'm sorry to disrupt your afternoons. I hope I won't take up too much of your time here today, but I felt it important to speak up and share my opinion on the latest announcement to reach our shores: That of the contest in Black Bottom.

Now, I want to make myself clear. This isn't an attack on anybody, this isn't aimed at anybody, this isn't a thinly veiled bitch fit. This is myself wanting to share my thoughts. This is not against the current leaders of Detroit, the entrants to the contest, or anybody who may be thinking of entering.

I can't help but feel, though, as though in our desperation to keep the wheels turning in our world, in our desperation to keep filling up districts, that in terms of contests, we're really scraping the bottom of the barrel so hard that we're pretty much underground now.

To the ears of my relatively new to this world bloodline, the strength of ideas and organization of contests has been in a steady decline since the end of the Las Vegas Project - which sadly, my line wasn't around to experience, although it does sound like it was the last contest that actually made people put something on the line to achieve the glory of a crew or a Godfather spot. And how did it do that? Because it had rules. A list, of rules. I'll quote them for ya, here and now, as they came from the mouth of AlabamaWorley at the contests beginning:

1) You must have the permission of your current Don/Godfather.
2) You may only take with you a RHM and a LHM.
3) Nobody who is Extremely Well Protected, Obscenely Well Protected or Insanely Well Protected is eligible for this opportunity.
4) There will be no outside influence from any individual from any other city - you're on your own!
5) Las Vegas will remain open until a Godfather takes control of the city and closes it.
6) There is no limit upon the number of families that can operate within Las Vegas at this time (to be reviewed once Vegas has a Godfather)
7) The city may appoint a representative to act on their behalf on the Godfather Council, provided they are recognised as the leader of the city by all other families within the city.
8) You can use force, guile or diplomacy to succeed in gaining a foothold in Las Vegas and provided it is contained to Las Vegas, there will be no outside interference.

Now, we all know that the Vegas project ended with DeadlySin moving to Philadelphia to become Godfather and PoisonousJelly remaining in Las Vegas to have his arse kicked firmly into gear to eventually become Godfather there. After many months of struggle, after the deaths of many leaders and members alike. But, from the stories told to my ancestors - as the project pre-dates us - we know that large amounts of excitement and discussion were generated, even for those outside of the Vegas bubble.

And, I think that in fairness to both DeadlySin and PoisonousJelly, they gave our world two strong cities. Indeed, Vegas was the starting point of arguably the strongest Godfather since Roman.

The rules also mention multiple times the concept of 'no outside interference'. Now, we all know that DeadlySin and PoisonousJelly were awarded their respective cities as a result of the ending of a war, but as two strong crews in a newly decimated world... this makes sense. They'd participated in a war, perhaps been the swing factor, and they were rewarded for their participation, at a stage where the only twist left for Vegas was arguably for one of the two to kill the other and take Godfather alone. This lead to action further down the line when the two faced off the in the East Coast vs West Coast war.

So, Las Vegas: a contest with a strict set of rules from the offset, with a clear end goal, a clear way to 'win', and a clear call for no interference. And it seemed to not only give plenty to the city of Las Vegas, but to the rest of the world as well. You could call it a gift that kept on giving from the GFC of the time.

On next to a game of numbers in Detroit. Announced this time by Bunny, on behalf of herself and DeadlySin. Again, a structured contest, with rules, with a clear end goal and with NO OUTSIDE INTERFERENCE.

For those who missed this one, I'll again provide a recap of the rules.

- All those people interested in setting up in the city, must declare their interest to bunny once they have their Crewleaders blessing. Your names will be assigned a number - if your number comes up when the die rolling is done, congratulations, you're a Crewleader.

- There will be a maximum of 5 Crews in the city at any one time.

- You can apply at any time provided you are less than 60 days old and are at 34 or less units, but your name won't be added into the rolling until you reach Made Man. You must stay at 34 units or lower to enter, if you reach 35 you are not allowed to enter - you can go over 60 days old (from original start date) provided you applied to enter before that age.

- Every two weeks a new Crewleader will be selected to join the city - if there are already 5 crews in the city, the current Detroit leaders vote for who loses their place. The new leader will not be selected until the current leaders have voted one out. If no decision is made by the current leaders within 12 hours, a decision will be made by the gods rolling a die - the unlucky leader will then be told to step down.

- Once you have been voted out you must either rejoin your former family or join a Detroit family. All crew members have 1 week from the Crewleader stepping down to find a new home within Detroit.

- You must be a maximum Bodyguard tier of Very Well Protected on entering, and you may NOT increase your bodyguard tier while in the city (meaning a limit of 50 bodyguards).

- Crewleaders may take one member as their Right Hand, and this person is never to exceed Well Protected (meaning a limit of 25 bodyguards) and must also be less than 60 days old. All other members are limited to Protected status.

- Limited to Fortified with HQ fort status

- There are to be no internal auths for the duration of the experiment.

- You can re-apply if you're voted out provided all conditions are still met (no more than 34 units and less than 60 days old)

- The first rolling will be done on the 1st of September. At this time 5 leaders will be chosen. If there are 5 or less applicants, all of them get to set up - if there are 6 or more then the positions are rolled for.

- What happens in Detroit stays in Detroit, provided it is contained to Detroit there will be no outside interference.

- The contest will end once the city has a Godfather.

Detroit gave us Godfather Revolve, who did meet his demise soon after, but again... it was a contest that was well structured, well run by those in charge of it, and which gave us a clear winner without the rest of the world feeling the need to become involved until after the contest was over.

And now, ladies and gentlemen, to our latest contests. The twin shambles of the Staten Island Crew Leader Idol and the Brooklyn 'Never Been Authed' contests. Two contests, running side by side, that both very quickly turned into a complete and utter shambles. We saw Chicago creaming off crews to move into their own districts. We saw the acting Godmother of Staten Island, Roquelaure, just rock up in the Suburbs one day. We saw BrandonHeat hand selected to escape the fall of Brooklyn by Godfather DeadlySpikeS. And we allowed this. We allowed people to be creamed off from these contests, to be handed their legitimacy via them. And we saw those contests, not only by way of poor design, not only by way of too few rules governing the way that we were to throw a group of strangers together, and in the case of Brooklyn, to throw a group of strangers who'd never led before to try to figure out how to run a district without metaphorically shitting the bed. We saw both a lack of rules and a lack of organization turn what probably weren't the greatest ideas in practice, although which with better structure may have been workable, turn into downright fucking farce by the time both districts had fallen.

On to today. Black Bottom, it was announced, is to be an open house. No rules on bodyguards, no rules on how many crews, and -get this- the Godfather is to be chosen. Hand selected from the pool available. Not won, not earned by the work they put in, by the tactics they use to defeat adversaries - chosen. Well, ladies and gents. We saw how well Anarchy did, when Godfather JackRyan attempted to choose him to run that district. Mark my words. A Godfather is not what will be chosen from Black Bottom. What will be chosen, either a puppet, a yes man or, and in my belief, worst of all, somebody who can afford to use other worldly riches to back their bid. And if that is how we end up, then we might as well hold districts up for auction. Available to the highest credit bidder. Or if we end up with a puppet or a yes man - well what was the point in this farce, then? To further devalue the role of the leader and Godfather? Why not just auth one of their own, if that's what they'd really like?

I aired my displeasure on the matter directly to Billy. He perhaps let himself in for more than he bargained for when he said he valued my honesty. I asked what the fuck a lack of a bodyguard cap was all about. Because it made it easier for the other worldly rich to influence the outcome - something the GFC clearly hadn't considered, owing to the announcement that followed changing it. The reservation that he had about it though - that people going from Not Protected to Insanely Well Protected in one go might arouse suspicion. For fucks sake, are we pandering constantly to the dregs of our society here? Are we seriously coddling the people with so little sense to such an extreme? Why the fuck can we not ask people to use some strategy in achieving their goals? Where is the impossibility in asking people to hire and train their bodyguards slowly? Why the fucking hell would we want to protect somebody without the simple common sense to see that as a strategy to the level that they may actually become a Godfather? I mean fuck, if we're doing that, we might as well take a gigantic shite all over the position. I'll hand out back issues of Ziva's Daily Roundup to be used for arse wiping afterwards.

I also challenged the sense in allowing outside interference - I mean, shit, we've just seen outside interference totally undermine two contests back to back. I still can't quite consider the remaining leader from that contest as a respectable leader in the same way as I'd see any leader who was authed by a Godfather and then moved into their own district. It'll be a sad day when that man takes Godfather, because the idea of someone authed as part of one of those contests upping sticks cross country and ending up a Godfather there wasn't the premise that the Brooklyn OR Staten Island shambles were marketed to Joe Public. Funnily enough, that was included in the change announcement too.

I still deeply hope that the third challenge I made, the fact that I find the idea of a Godfather being chosen as a winner of a contest to be completely fucking absurd as opposed to giving the chance to the strongest and smartest to win it will be considered by the GFC. I don't have high hopes though.

Yes, ladies and gentlemen, my faith in the Godfathers over this is low. Knee high to a grasshopper, even. Do I believe I'm out of line to say this, to make this speech, to make my voice heard? No, I don't. Because Godfathers, district leaders, should not HAVE to be announcing contests then modifying them because of public feedback. It makes it look as though they've barely thought them through at all, as though this was both the first and the easiest idea they could possibly crap out and write a speech about. I'd actually like to lay a challenge out to whoever the hell brought this in, be it the Godfathers, be it the current leaders of Detroit: Who are you, and what the hell was the development process here? Why the hell should my feedback be patching up the cracks in this idea?

My ancestor argued strongly against Godfather Cantona over the Staten Island contest, but at least the man had enough faith in the idea he was presenting that he didn't have to publicly back down over it.

I appreciate that many will find my words here tonight disrespectful, out of line. Not my place, to say what I think, to say what I feel. And maybe so, maybe those people are correct; I'm sure they'll shout much louder than those who agree with my words. I doubt it'll take long for me to be painted as the pantomime villain, some kind of super cunt with attitude problems. I disagree. I think I'm one of the few willing enough to speak from the heart that they'll accept the risk of a bullet to the head as a consequence. And I wish more people were equally as willing. Being of high rank doesn't mean you've earned the right to never be questioned on any matter, to my mind. It means you're in the spotlight enough that people have to actually care about the decisions you make.

Thank you to those who've heard me out here this evening. I thank you for your time and await your feedback.

It seems that a primary concern you have is the matter of the Godfather being decided by the Council at the end, rather than just left to those in Black Bottom. Personally, I don't have a problem with that and I don't see it as quite the rage inducing phenomenon that you do. Why is it so much worse than letting whoever is in Black Bottom determine who the Godfather will be?

As our world is currently being run by a Godfather Council which is determining the status of Cosa Nostra across America, I don't find it "completely fucking absurd" that these same individuals would be the ones to determine who gets a seat at the table. Those with power deciding who else joins their hierarchy sounds very much in keeping with what the Mafia is all about to old Stelengum. And, in reality, I'm pretty sure the same person will be chosen either way because there are some unavoidable facts which will govern the selection. The most obvious of these will be who is actually left alive, what have they actually done and are they actually eligible to become Godfather?

In the unlikely event that more than one person matches these requirements; I would be very surprised if there wasn't a consensus about who should be selected based upon how they have led and conducted themselves for the duration of their tenure, which means that the same person is probably going to get the nod either way.

So, I don't think that will really be much of a problem and I certainly think it is premature to condemn the idea outright based on very little except your lack of faith.

As to the rest of this, I don't really know what you're trying to achieve. In one breath you're throwing it back in the Godfather Council's face that they have listened to public opinion and adjusted the rules accordingly, whilst in the next you're asking more people to speak from the heart and proffer opinion regardless of the consequences. What is the point of doing that if nobody is prepared to listen to what you've risked saying? If I take the time to speak my mind and convey my points effectively enough that people are swayed by what I have to say, the last thing I want is for the shutters to come down and for people to stubbornly refuse to budge from their flawed stance. That would appear to be a little counterproductive considering they would otherwise be doing exactly what I wanted them to do. 

It seems that a primary concern you have is the matter of the Godfather being decided by the Council at the end, rather than just left to those in Black Bottom. Personally, I don't have a problem with that and I don't see it as quite the rage inducing phenomenon that you do. Why is it so much worse than letting whoever is in Black Bottom determine who the Godfather will be?

Rage inducing phenomenon? Can nobody speak against something anymore without implications that they are overly emotional about something? Putting time and effort into speaking out against something, and backing my beliefs with not only time and effort but passion, does not mean that I am suffering from "rage".

Now, as to why I find it worse than letting whoever is in Black Bottom determine the Godfather... because, my dear, this is a fucking contest. If the Godfathers wished to hand pick the person to receive the honor of becoming Godfather, why the hell bother with running a farcical contest to begin with? I don't find it entirely out the question that those in charge already have a fair idea of who the winner is going to be. Which is fine, but why bother with cheapening that with a half arsed, half baked contest? If you truly want to use a contest to allow someone to "earn" the right to be Godfather, it's my opinion that the person wishing to take the spot should be willing to put whatever it takes on the line to do it, to be willing to fight for their right to take that spot. Not for everybody to hold hands and for the best asskisser at the end of a couple of months to be handed the spot.

As our world is currently being run by a Godfather Council which is determining the status of Cosa Nostra across America, I don't find it "completely fucking absurd" that these same individuals would be the ones to determine who gets a seat at the table. Those with power deciding who else joins their hierarchy sounds very much in keeping with what the Mafia is all about to old Stelengum. And, in reality, I'm pretty sure the same person will be chosen either way because there are some unavoidable facts which will govern the selection. The most obvious of these will be who is actually left alive, what have they actually done and are they actually eligible to become Godfather?

I find it completely fucking absurd that in the same breath as announcing that they're opening a district in contest format to whoever wishes to have a shot at auth and becoming a Godfather, and then announce in the same breath that they'll be hand picking their favourite for Godfather. That seems to completely contradict the idea of an open ended contest to start with. This whole Black Bottom open auth thing seems like a watered down Las Vegas project, but with the stabilizers kept on so that nobody too undesirable to the powers that be might get a chance. If the powers that be want to get a say so much in who gets the Godfather spot, I'm sure they could put a bullet in the winner after. That also seems quite a mafia-ish thing to do...

In the unlikely event that more than one person matches these requirements; I would be very surprised if there wasn't a consensus about who should be selected based upon how they have led and conducted themselves for the duration of their tenure, which means that the same person is probably going to get the nod either way.

What requirements are those? That you must survive and smile sweetly at the right people? I don't find it all that unlikely, personally, that more than one person will manage that. We're hardly giving people a reason to fight each other, nor are we stopping somebody who already is very powerful moving in and running the district by the gun. Because there's no kind of level playing restrictions, barring a hastily dragged in bodyguard cap when it was pointed out how easily this contest could potentially be bought. In my opinion, what made Las Vegas work and be interesting was the very existence of restrictions, and the same with Detroit.

So, I don't think that will really be much of a problem and I certainly think it is premature to condemn the idea outright based on very little except your lack of faith.

I disagree, I think it may be a problem. I also do not think it premature to condemn this when it appears to have none of the ingredients of previous successful contests, and relies on the meddling of the Godfathers to determine it's outcome, which helped put the nail in the coffin of both the Staten Island and Brooklyn contests. My bloodline was slated by those backing Staten Island and Brooklyn for stating the belief that the contests would fail... and we were right. I certainly won't be afraid to share that opinion again. I am of the belief that it takes an exceptional contest for it to genuinely succeed. This is not.

I also am left wondering if your own defense in the terms of it being "premature" to condemn the idea being in large part down to your own very obvious vested interests in it. I have no such ties.

As to the rest of this, I don't really know what you're trying to achieve. In one breath you're throwing it back in the Godfather Council's face that they have listened to public opinion and adjusted the rules accordingly, whilst in the next you're asking more people to speak from the heart and proffer opinion regardless of the consequences. What is the point of doing that if nobody is prepared to listen to what you've risked saying? If I take the time to speak my mind and convey my points effectively enough that people are swayed by what I have to say, the last thing I want is for the shutters to come down and for people to stubbornly refuse to budge from their flawed stance. That would appear to be a little counterproductive considering they would otherwise be doing exactly what I wanted them to do. 

Oh, I'm very glad they actually listened, but I'd very much love to know why the hell they threw a contest out that appears to have been so poorly thought through that the fact that I scanned the thing and came up with a list of weaknesses significant enough that they were acted upon. How poorly thought through was this thing? Who is actually responsible for it, what was the planning process for it, how and why were these things originally overlooked?

Success or fail, the fact that they changed their tune or they didn't, I still feel that there are significant questions to be answered to the Godfathers about the apparent lack of planning they have shown over this.

Like I said before, I don't feel like reaching a certain rank absolves you of responsibility. You haven't made it truly, in my eyes, til you've died and then still months down the line have people talking about the influence you had and the things that you did.

I respect your honesty and your freedom of speech.

I wrote things down on paper, things that a lot of people agreed sounded good, the problem is not everything on paper actually works good in the actual world. When these things were discussed in a public view it was proven that maybe they weren't the best and should be tweaked.

I understand you think that a lack of thought went into the competition but that really isn't it at all. We wanted to try something new and few things with how this world work didn't work out and I changed them for the better. I have no problem with your honesty or your opinion it is how you feel but I can say at the end of last night that I listened to everyone, talked to a lot of people, and I feel the changes put forward will hopefully provided a good competition with an end result in a Godfather being earned.

People can speak about whatever they like without appearing overly emotional...if they don't appear to be overly emotional. The way you've presented this seems that you're very, very annoyed about it. If I am mistaken about that, then I apologise. 

The reason for opening a district like this is to allow people who wouldn't ordinarily get the nod to come forward and show what they can do. Frankly, seeing the children of the fallen Dons replacing them is very boring to me. I would prefer to see something like this, which allows a more diverse cross section of our society to come forward if they have the rocks to do so, than just authing whoever is next in line to solidify a position.

I don't know why you're just assuming the person who becomes Godfather will be chosen for being the best asskisser. You're basing that on absolutely nothing and it is far too early to substantiate it. I think the right person will be chosen based on their merits and how they perform in Black Bottom. At the moment, nobody can say what will happen short of revealing their talent as a clairvoyant.

Clearly I have a vested interest in this as I was the first person to grasp the opportunity. However, that doesn't change the fact that I feel condemning something before it has even started is premature. The people in the contests are also responsible for the success or failure of it. If 10 idiots came to Black Bottom, I'm sure regardless of the rules it would be chaos. As it is, we're gunning down 24 hours and nobody has burned the city to the ground yet. Should that change, then you can certainly drop by my funeral with a big hearty "I told you so". Until then though, your disagreement with it feels more indicative of your feeling towards the Godfather Council than the actual contest itself.

I will go ahead and answer a few of the things you spoke about in your reply to Stelengum.

For one let me go ahead and say that when the Las Vegas experiment happened, there were no districts, there was one city, and the ultimate goal of achieving a Godfather rank. There was tons of bloodshed over the course and eventually due to a huge war gave DeadlySin and PoisonousJelly both the reward of Godfather due to how well they did in the competition.

Unfortunately with the last competition ending in pure bloodshed we decided to try to go a different way with this and the Godfathers who read over the initial thread decided that they liked that the goal wasn't about gaining Godfather and that the goal was giving people the chance to be a Leader. Which is why the Council were to choose a Godfather because that wasn't what the competition was initially about although eventually a Godfather did need to be found. We tried to do things differently to stop so much bloodshed and simply give people the chance to shine as a Crew Leader.

The same went with having no restrictions, we wanted people to be able to sign up for the competition and feel what it was like to be a real Crew Leader not slowed down by multiple restrictions, where every action they did could be judged and acted on by the rest of the game just as the real world runs. We wanted people to gain the true mentality of what it was like to run a family where consequences for your actions were real and could significantly hurt you some even resulting in dying.

I know you think that lack of thought went into this but as I mentioned that is far from the truth. Lot of thought went into this as being a no restrictions style competition but at the end of the day that is not what the community wanted. Many of them were perfectly fine with bloodshed and a constant battle for Godfather. While the Council wanted something opposite with minimal bloodshed and the chance to be a Crew Leader not a Godfather and giving out Godfather as a reward for showing you have what it takes to run a district.

If I am being completely honest here because you are, I changed things around based on community feedback and what people wanted, the community was fine with a bloodbath happening over the next four months or longer which is something we wanted to avoid so all I can really say being as honest as possible here is that if bloodshed strikes and this competition fails just remember it was the community feedbacks doing which caused this as that was not our initial thought process.

Hopefully this answers a lot of the questions you have and remember nobody is perfect and no plans are perfect, nothing always goes as planned and if that was the case then no wars would have ever happened in the past six years. As mentioned I respect your opinion but to be honest I also don't think you gave the original plan a chance to even work itself out and to see what we were trying to do and nobody will ever see what we were trying to do now and that is fine but I truly do hope this newly ruled up competition works out and I have no intention to continue speaking on this as I gave the community what they wanted and I answered you so past this point I plan to sit back and watch how things unfold in Black Bottom.

The community is always baying for blood, so I'm not particularly surprised that they want to make this into a gladiatorial contest with Black Bottom as the arena as that would likely provide the greatest entertainment for them. However, I am confident that the success or failure of this will depend more upon the individuals who come to Black Bottom rather than the rules by which they are governed. 

We are all here to make money and in some cases to spread the world about the shapely derriere of Roberto_Carlos. Whilst it is more beneficial to anyone coming to Black Bottom to work with those people already here rather than shooting them, they will do. It is down to the leaders here to make themselves productive business associates or else they will be discarded. 

Just FYI.

The Las Vegas Project was good, the rules were decent and were well thought out (by an ancestor of Grin mostly, Alabama simply delivered them to the public tbh); but they were slightly exploited.

The ruling was set that no Leader could initially set up as IWP, however they were allowed to have Hands with no restrictions on their BGs. There was also another rule that stated in the event of a CLs death, their RH could set up. That was the only means of auth from within Vegas that was available, all other auths were to come from outside Vegas.

Fast forward after the death of AlabamaWorley and her next of Kin Animal joined Vegas as an IWP RH to an ancestor of Ragnarok. Before long, Rags ancestor was removed by the other Vegas leaders and Animal set up. This changed the Vegas contest imo. Until this point Leaders had set up and died constantly for a long time, LOADS of blood was shed. But now they had this guy sitting there IWP and the strongest guns in Vegas could barely scratch anyone that was even WP.

That status allowed Animal the ability to be diplomatic and settle Vegas down and retain a handful of good leaders that could work well together, I believe that BG status also dissuaded others from trying to come into town as they knew they wouldn't win in a battle of guns.

In fact, its very likely that had that all not happend, DeadlySin might not have made it to the position that he fared so well in. DeadlySin became a CL in Vegas in much the same fashion as Animal, he was RH to an ancestor of FCUK and after his CLs death, he sought permission to set up in Vegas, most if not all the leaders were against it for some reason, they wanted him dead as they feared him. Animal stepped in and said that DeadlySin is to be granted permission to set up and should that decision to allow DS to remain prove the wrong choice, then Animal would relinquish his own position of leader in Vegas as a result. The rest agreed to this and the rest is pretty much history, DS worked excellently with the rest of Vegas and due to the good job they had all done together, Animal was told by Godfather Stamina that he HAD to leave Vegas and become Godather of St Louis. Animal didn't wish to leave but sadly was offered no choice, before he could buy his new HQ however he wack backed and died, leaving his RH to take over and remain in Vegas.. to then also die from wackback leaving his RH to take over - PoisonousJelly. PJ and DS continued the peaceful reign and struck up a formidable partnership, eclipsing anything Animal had done really. They were the true hero's of the contest and built Vegas into a great city and earned themselves their titles that they went on to achieve.

So you see, that although Vegas had "rules", these rules were often exploited and broken. In fact, another piece of outside interference occurred that I often forget; the RH to Godfather of Chicago attempted to kill Animal on two occasions as she regarded him as a Rogue for setting up after the fall of his leader, despite the fact it was well within the rules.

So whilst Vegas contest was great because of how it ended, there were certainly a lot of trials and tribulations in the process that weren't so great.

So how about we give these contests a chance before we stamp our feet and shout them down? I for one would always prefer to let time show whether or not the contest is good, rather than pre judge it based on our own one directional perceptions of what we believe the process should be.

Ziva smirks a little.

And so the cavalry comes rushing in. Two with vested interests, one who appears to feel the need to flex his "my bloodline is older than yours therefore I know better than you" muscles.

People can speak about whatever they like without appearing overly emotional...if they don't appear to be overly emotional. The way you've presented this seems that you're very, very annoyed about it. If I am mistaken about that, then I apologise. 

You'd rather another speech with on personality or humanity to it? Spoken as though whoever jammed the key in my back to make me talk didn't wind it up enough times? 

The reason for opening a district like this is to allow people who wouldn't ordinarily get the nod to come forward and show what they can do. Frankly, seeing the children of the fallen Dons replacing them is very boring to me. I would prefer to see something like this, which allows a more diverse cross section of our society to come forward if they have the rocks to do so, than just authing whoever is next in line to solidify a position.

Excluding yourself and Prolong in Black Bottom, there are currently 25 authed leaders by my own count. Now, I might not know the bloodline of every single one, but by my count, there are currently 13 of those leaders that my bloodline does not recall as being authed at any point previously in our 18 months or so on these shores, barring one or two that sprang up as war auths and quickly died. That's not exactly symptomatic of a closed shop. Whereas one of the two of you in Detroit, I KNOW has been authed lately. So, you'll forgive me for dismissing your "allows a more diverse cross section of our society" argument. For a start, I don't think auth is the closed shop that for some reason, yourself and many others seem to like to make it out as, and secondly, I don't think contests are a brilliant way to attract new people. I think Godfathers backing new people is the best way to see them in a bold suit. If we aren't seeing a variety of people going bold, that to me is on Godfathers not being willing enough to both get to know and shape the next generation of mafiosi. And, people ARE taking those chances. It might not happen for new players as quickly as some would like, but it does happen.

I don't know why you're just assuming the person who becomes Godfather will be chosen for being the best asskisser. You're basing that on absolutely nothing and it is far too early to substantiate it. I think the right person will be chosen based on their merits and how they perform in Black Bottom. At the moment, nobody can say what will happen short of revealing their talent as a clairvoyant.

And you're assuming that they won't from absolutely nothing and it is far too early to substantiate that. You might BELIEVE that a person will be chosen for the right reasons, but prove it. The weight of common sense, that they will pick the person they find least likely to disrupt their own ways, rather than the strongest leader, I believe, is on my side over this. 

Clearly I have a vested interest in this as I was the first person to grasp the opportunity. However, that doesn't change the fact that I feel condemning something before it has even started is premature. The people in the contests are also responsible for the success or failure of it. If 10 idiots came to Black Bottom, I'm sure regardless of the rules it would be chaos. As it is, we're gunning down 24 hours and nobody has burned the city to the ground yet. Should that change, then you can certainly drop by my funeral with a big hearty "I told you so". Until then though, your disagreement with it feels more indicative of your feeling towards the Godfather Council than the actual contest itself.

I'll be sure to. And yes, it's not a secret that for quite some time my bloodline has had a lack of faith in whatever incarnation the Godfather Council are taking on at this current time. I believe deeply that the comfort provided by the huge amounts of Godfather spots available because of districts and the often desperate need to fill a district or face what could've been dire consequences have brought about more than a few Godfathers and District Heads that I believe under the previous city system, would've struggled to have maintained a spot as a crew leader. Until these people can prove that they are something other than a person who got lucky by not dying and reaching the required standards set by City Hall by giving us Godfathers and District Heads with personality and substance, I'll continue to view them negatively. But that doesn't mean that if they do bring forward something I find positive or a good idea, I won't say something. My issue with this is that I feel it is another lazy, ill considered quick fix that had so much more potential than those responsible could be arsed to let it have. 

Ziva then turns to Billy.

I wrote things down on paper, things that a lot of people agreed sounded good, the problem is not everything on paper actually works good in the actual world. When these things were discussed in a public view it was proven that maybe they weren't the best and should be tweaked.

I wouldn't admit that out loud too many times, in all honesty, because there were glaring holes in that whole plan that were pointed out when others first heard it - not saw it in action, just heard it, that were quickly pointed out. If a lot of people failed to see those holes, that says quite a lot of things about those people that don't reflect all that greatly. 

I understand you think that a lack of thought went into the competition but that really isn't it at all. We wanted to try something new and few things with how this world work didn't work out and I changed them for the better. I have no problem with your honesty or your opinion it is how you feel but I can say at the end of last night that I listened to everyone, talked to a lot of people, and I feel the changes put forward will hopefully provided a good competition with an end result in a Godfather being earned.

I appreciate you valuing my opinion and honesty, and that you did actually listen to people, but I honestly think that to take this and say that a lot of thought went into it is quite troubling. A lot of thought went into it, and you still had to make major changes only hours in? The reason that I think a lack of thought went into this is because it seems like a watered down Vegas project that nobody could be arsed writing rules for, or thinking about enforcing rules for, and because you didn't quite like the idea of having a total wildcard as Godfather. 

Unfortunately with the last competition ending in pure bloodshed we decided to try to go a different way with this and the Godfathers who read over the initial thread decided that they liked that the goal wasn't about gaining Godfather and that the goal was giving people the chance to be a Leader. Which is why the Council were to choose a Godfather because that wasn't what the competition was initially about although eventually a Godfather did need to be found. We tried to do things differently to stop so much bloodshed and simply give people the chance to shine as a Crew Leader.

But, my dear, the mafia is supposed to be a cutthroat business where the strongest survive. Not a hippy camp where we all hold hands and encourage each other to reach for the stars. Even if you did want to make it about leading not becoming Godfather, why not allow Black Bottom itself to choose a leader once a certain point of strength for the district had been reached?

The same went with having no restrictions, we wanted people to be able to sign up for the competition and feel what it was like to be a real Crew Leader not slowed down by multiple restrictions, where every action they did could be judged and acted on by the rest of the game just as the real world runs. We wanted people to gain the true mentality of what it was like to run a family where consequences for your actions were real and could significantly hurt you some even resulting in dying.

Yes, very realistic except for the part where you mention in the announcement that there will be no outside interference. Consequences for actions being real and significantly harmful means that when you act the prick to say, a New York leader, you risk being wiped by New York. Not when you have a protective clause. Gaining the true mentality of running a family is constantly being aware of outside threats, not protected from them and only having to fear internal threats. Contests are a bubble, this is no different. Don't dress it up as realism, because allowing anybody to put their hand up and gain auth in itself is not realism. 

Many of them were perfectly fine with bloodshed and a constant battle for Godfather. While the Council wanted something opposite with minimal bloodshed and the chance to be a Crew Leader not a Godfather and giving out Godfather as a reward for showing you have what it takes to run a district.

If I am being completely honest here because you are, I changed things around based on community feedback and what people wanted, the community was fine with a bloodbath happening over the next four months or longer which is something we wanted to avoid so all I can really say being as honest as possible here is that if bloodshed strikes and this competition fails just remember it was the community feedbacks doing which caused this as that was not our initial thought process.

Bloodshed is part of our world Billy. It's part of our way of life. As sure as the sun comes up in the morning and down at night, we are all born and we all will die. And for many of us, we may feel it unjust or before our time, but it is still part of our way of life. So of fucking course the community wants bloodshed. Of course the community wants these contests to be interesting, rather than being about who can hold hands the hardest. I notice you're already making your excuses for if the contest fails... if the contest fails, I personally blame the people who insisted on yet another fucking contest to fill a district they couldn't auth into, especially now that the threat of raging killer mutant NPCs has been lifted.  Do not palm this off onto the community.

She turns then to Tyrion, slightly incredulous at his little "FYI".

FYI, Tyrion, if you're looking for someone to act superior at and FYI at, I suggest you look elsewhere. You might have an older bloodline than mine, your memory might go back longer than mine, you might be a bloodline I've previously respected, but the minute you FYI at me is the minute I lose respect for anything that comes out of your mouth.

If that is how your ancestor Animal spoke to people, I sympathize greatly with the RH to whoever the Godfather of Chicago was at the time.

You state that the process of Vegas wasn't always great... I'm guessing it was a lot more interesting than a sit and hold hands and we'll pick a winner fest. Given that people had to actually, y'know, fight for something.

Walking through the area, Dougal recognised Ziva as the person who distributed the excellent Daily Roundup newspaper. He overheard her protestations at the state of affairs in Black Bottom. He noticed she was clutching a small placard, simply saying "Down with this sort of thing". Dougal noticed that Ziva was causing a small amount of controversy, and he wished to warn her of this.

"Careful now", he whispered in her ear as he left the area.

The same went with having no restrictions, we wanted people to be able to sign up for the competition and feel what it was like to be a real Crew Leader not slowed down by multiple restrictions, where every action they did could be judged and acted on by the rest of the game just as the real world runs. We wanted people to gain the true mentality of what it was like to run a family where consequences for your actions were real and could significantly hurt you some even resulting in dying.

Since the Godfather Council is hand picking the Godfather, will their actions not be judged Billy? Will everything they do not be scrutinized? There is always plenty of judgment around here. We all know this. I would not be so sure about them there CL's setting up not being acted upon either. There has always been ways to act without directly getting blood on our hands Sir.

ps .. you used the "G" word :o

For having an old bloodline your sure show a lot of disrespect Ziva I mean seriously what makes it OK for you to just disrespect a leader like you have done? Yeah we don't hold hands and sing camp fire songs but that doesn't mean you can act like a disrespectful twat. Telling a leader their idea is stupid and not well thought out is disrespectful in my eyes. Sure you might not agree with the choices NOT JUST BILLY made but what the GODFATHER COUNCIL made but there are better ways of going about giving your thoughts. I do have to agree that the past few times this was tried out it failed. Mainly because as soon as someone came close to godfather the other power hungry peeps would take them out. What I don't really understand about this particular comp is why everyone wants it to be like all the other times when it didn't work then. What you believe people can change and this time it will work? In all honesty even if the godfather council didn't pick the "winner" aka godfather of Black Bottom what makes you think if someone they aren't huge fans of wins this that they will be godfather for very long. At least if the godfather council picks the winner they have al ot better chance of living longer than a week. All in all while you were very intelligent with your speech Ziva I just feel you may need to calm down a bit and think your words a bit more carefully. Old bloodlines don't give you the right to be a jerk to everyone else.

Skip you're such a disrespectful cunt. (Do you see the hypocrisy there?)

In all fairness, the idea wasn't well thought out. Ziva gave reasons why it wasn't well thought out. They have come out and changed the rules of the damn thing, so obviously it wasn't, was it?

Are you just jumping on the same bandwagon everybody else is with this disrespect shite? "Oh you speak your mind and say what you are thinking, you're being disrespectful!" Yes I understand there are probably better ways to go about some things, but I'd rather people by frank and honest than fake, to then backstab and bitch behind peoples backs. A trait I would guess you have down to a T.

Oh Skip. Skip, Skip, Skip.

When trying to get on a high horse, results will tend to be best obtained by not falling directly off the other side.

For having an old bloodline your sure show a lot of disrespect Ziva I mean seriously what makes it OK for you to just disrespect a leader like you have done? Yeah we don't hold hands and sing camp fire songs but that doesn't mean you can act like a disrespectful twat.

Old bloodline? Not so. Mine is actually one of the younger bloodlines about these shores. Yes, I question leaders, and yes, I take it too them. Why the fuck shouldn't I? Why the fuck should they go unquestioned, why the fuck should they go without being called out? Putting on a bold suit doesn't make a person immune to criticism, my dear. On the contrary, I think it makes it necessary to hold a person more strongly to account.

And, who on earth taught you about disrespect? Because, since you clearly missed this in "Disrespect 101", it makes you look a bit of a plank when you accuse me of disrespect, then call me a twat in the same breath. See what I mean about not falling straight over the other side of a high horse? That's what you just did.

Don't call my argument disrespectful when you can't choke out two sentences without calling someone a twat on the streets, sunshine.

Telling a leader their idea is stupid and not well thought out is disrespectful in my eyes. Sure you might not agree with the choices NOT JUST BILLY made but what the GODFATHER COUNCIL made but there are better ways of going about giving your thoughts.

Putting out such a stupid and poorly thought out idea is disrespectful to the community in my eyes. And I'm not sure why you feel the need to emphasize that it wasn't just Billy's decision but the GFCs... because I'm well aware of that. In fact, I've already spoken on my feelings towards the GFC here, but I won't waste my breath repeating myself on the likes of you.

Where might you suggest that I air my thoughts, though? Coffee shops, mob mail? Why NOT the streets? My family has for several generations been a strong advocate of bringing about debate on these streets, to keep them alive, to help others find their voices. I practice what I preach, sweetie. Although considering that you've tried to chastise me for a lack of respect by calling me a twat, practicing what one preaches is obviously a rather foreign concept to you.

What I don't really understand about this particular comp is why everyone wants it to be like all the other times when it didn't work then. What you believe people can change and this time it will work?

If you'd actually read my speech rather than reverting instantly to moral outrage, you'd notice that I'm asking why we aren't modelling this more closely to contests that actually did work, rather than relying on a premise of outside interference hand picking the winners that lead to the collapse of the last two contests. But hey, focus on my apparent disrespect for not just nodding and applauding, not my actual message.

I just feel you may need to calm down a bit and think your words a bit more carefully. Old bloodlines don't give you the right to be a jerk to everyone else.

If ever a statement was required as an example of the pot calling the kettle black, ladies and gentlemen, I think this right here is a winner.

you know what assuming does Chalk? I am sure you do. Where did I be disrespectful in anyway? Also neither Ziva or I are currently leaders. Leaders are the ones who should be getting the most respect. I feel my acting head was disrespected so yeah I am going to come out here and give my thoughts about it. Since when is it ok to be so disrespectful in the streets? And I am pretty sure they didnt just pull this idea out of their ass. Billy made mention of a variety of talks and such maybe the idea just wasn't communicated very well. Theres a lot of work in being apart of the godfather council. All the godfathers/Acting Heads deserve the most respect and Ziva doesnt seem to agree. Neither do you Chalk it seems. There is a difference to letting everyone know whats on your mind and being disrespectful. Ziva crossed that line. If you cant handle the heat get the fuck out the kitchen.

If the shoe fits Ziva feel free to wear it but I didnt call you a disrespectful twat I said you were acting like one maybe you should read what people wrote before coming out here with your accusations 

Okay Skip, you're both stupid, and making absolutely no sense.

Where were you disrespectful? I thought I had made it obvious, and if I hadn't, Ziva solidified the point. Calling someone disrespectful, and then calling them a twat, is disrespectful, you complete mong. As for me doing the same thing, the fact you couldn't comprehend this has wiped any respect I could've had for you (it was a low bar anyway).

The fact that neither of you are leaders has got sweet fuck all to do with respect.

Leaders should be getting the most respect, yes, if they deserve it, and work for it. Merely gaining the experience, and the chance to don a bold suit is not enough in my eyes. Especially with the ease that people are getting them these days.

Since when was it ok to be so disrespectful in the streets? Please actually listen to what people are saying, I feel as if I'm just repeating things over and over for you, and I really can't be bothered, you aren't going to understand either way. To shorten it, where else are people to voice their distaste and opinions? In private messages? Freedom of speech is a wonderful thing, try not to be too dictatorish.

You're right, they do deserve the most respect, but as I've said before, they have to have actually worked for it, and the fact that they are just a leader, does not entitled them to it.

Leaders are the ones who should be getting the most respect.

I do not know where the fuck this notion has come from that leaders are above question, reproach or condemnation, but I utterly object to it. When leaders, when district heads, when Godfathers, who, might I remind you, are at the top of this world, are the ones making the decisions that affect us all in this world, get their post, their work is not done. It is not over. 

Stepping into a bold suit, meeting City Hall's requirements for Godfather? That doesn't earn my respect anymore, because this world in the past year has changed beyond all recognition and the standards required of those at the top of our world have nose dived. We have Godfathers right now that I couldn't see coming close to lasting as long as they have under the old city system, when there was more competition for the spots. I see people being handed districts on a plate simply for the achievement of not dying. No, I'd rather judge these people on what they do outside of completing the City Hall checklists. I'd rather think for myself, than just assume that the sun shines out their arse, when I know that before our world changed, some of these people would never have gotten a look in - and to these eyes, there's a reason for that.

Your work does not end, my respect is not earned, just because you got there. It's what you do on the journey beyond there that matters.

And I am pretty sure they didnt just pull this idea out of their ass.

Well, that's fantastic for you. I'm not.

Theres a lot of work in being apart of the godfather council. All the godfathers/Acting Heads deserve the most respect and Ziva doesnt seem to agree.

See earlier point. Since the May war especially, the requirement appears to have been surviving and making 60 units. So you've forgive me for not tripping over myself to kiss ass.

There is a difference to letting everyone know whats on your mind and being disrespectful. Ziva crossed that line. If you cant handle the heat get the fuck out the kitchen.

 Sorry you feel that way, honey. My original speech was approved by my crew leader before it was made, though; perhaps you'd like to admonish him for his terrible judgement in letting me proceed? Perhaps you'd like to call into question his decision to allow Chalk and myself our freedom of speech? Although by your incredibly narrow rule book, that'd be disrespectful. If you can't handle being a sheep, Skip, I'd definitely recommend you get the fuck out of the kitchen. Lamb is tasty....

If the shoe fits Ziva feel free to wear it but I didnt call you a disrespectful twat I said you were acting like one maybe you should read what people wrote before coming out here with your accusations 

That's all you can say to all of that? My actions are representative of myself as a character in our world. So, if you're saying I'm acting like a disrespectful twat... then yes, you're pretty much calling me one. But either way, stooping to the level of calling someone in any form a twat isn't exactly the pinnacle of respectful behavior. 

And, as I've already said, I'm feeling as though you may be the one lacking in reading skills before coming out here...

You both have been utterly disrespectful to me why should I give an effort to respond to people who don't seem to deserve any of my attention With that I am done reading this thread after this response so feel free to continue disrespecting people I am sure you both will go real far with that kind of attitude >.> And like I said before there is a difference between letting your opinion known and disrespect hell your own city has even warned you above in this thread. That should be a sign. Oh yeah respect is earned not given and you have shown nothing but disrespect to me. If anything any and all respect I did have for you is now gone. Good luck in your life and feel free to never talk to me again.