Is it just me, or does anyone else notice the continual slide to OOC content appearing in these discussion based threads?

I understand some discussions are great, and they really add to the value and interaction on MR, yet why do posts contain so much OOC references and quote boxes?

The Streets is an In Character forum, supposedly, and even these threads should be role-played. It seems to me by flicking through the posts they are just peoples personal opinions and should instead be posted in this section. Role-play requires staying in character, which also requires posts to be in character, which requires for starters no quote boxes!

How in the hell a quote box repeating someone else post is an in character method is beyond me. These discussions should be role-played, not discussed in an out of character context.

I feel like I am a minority here, as the majority are using OOC references more and more and all of a sudden quote boxes have become the fashionable thing.

Am I really the only one who knows what is, and isn't, role-play here? And if not, what makes it OK to do what everyone else is doing, when it's adding to The Street's becoming another OOC environment with the added bonus of better vision and XP points?

If people want to be personal, then post in the OOC forum. If they want to take such discussions and be creative about them and play them out, in character, then that's what The Streets forum is for.

Some may argue that they are still being in character, yet I can happily post countless examples of OOC content being posted recently if I need to. And someone please tell me how quote boxes are in character?

I understand the no points part of it, I just don't understand how you consider directly quoting someone in a box as a method of playing a role, hence role-playing.

In a normal non role-play forum this is perfect. It's used in forums for the reason you can directly respond to text in another's post, even multiple posts etc.

Role-play in a forum environment is adding to the original posters thread, post by post. Each post adds to the one before it, and all 'role-plays' come together to form a continuous and every evolving story.

This is role-play in a forum context. The story comes from each individual post adding to the continually evolving story. In this case a discussion.

What we have with these threads is just an OOC discussion, which is why quoting users posts three back, and ignoring others, and taking a portion of this one and only focusing on that part etc works, because the thread itself isn't actually role-played. It's all OOC.

Imagine someone actually coming into these threads trying to add to it? What is there to actually add to? Where's the context? It's all personal opinions without character.

I can appreciate a well role-played discussion, and I'll give you an example of one: http://mafiareturns.com/comm/thread/505895#93944236

The replies could easily be fully beefed out to the point of "And when you previously mentioned "Non quote box quote here" my good man, did you...." but that's adding nothing of value or benefit to the immersion or enjoyment of the game, simply avoiding one specific type of formatting which provides a viable and suitable shorthand annotation for the same thing. It could be done, you can seek to change mindsets so others do it, but I personally would be much happier retaining the use of quoteboxes and having interesting debates and discussions without more fluff added just for the sake of it.

The content of the discussions is the enjoyable part, not the fluff that surrounds it.  

Then Nuada you don't know what role-play is my friend. It's the 'fluff' that adds the story, the environment, the character, so others can get a 'feel' and immerse themselves in the created environment.

Read a book mate, and tell me if a writer just has dialogue between the characters, or an actual story going on. Tell me what book doesn't have the so called 'fluff' and how it takes away from the evolving story, or how it actually is the meat of it all.

You, my friend, need a lesson in role-play. And it seems many on here also do.

To add to that, if you want just a discussion mate, that's the whole point of the OOC forum. Use all the quote boxes you like, because role-playing is writing. If you don't want to write the 'fluff', then stick to this forum.

If anyone was to enforce required Role-playing (with all the fluff), I can say with certainty that there would be people avoiding the streets because of it. (So the streets could turn up dead as a result)

Or maybe, just maybe sovereign  people will actually then start fucking role-playing instead of posting OOC shit! The lazy ones may turn to not posting, which would be better for the forum that is suppose to be for ROLE-PLAYING. 

Yet those with a creative bone in their body, and trust me, there is a great majority that do know how to role-play, will keep on posting quality material.

I don't see how these conversations can't either be role-played, which isn't fucking hard, or just posted in the OOC forum.

People that role-play are writers in some sense. They are creative. They add environment to a post. They add feeling, depth, character, they add scenery.

Those that don't want to will just post in the OOC forum, and maybe they might start learning how to also become more skilful as a writer. It's actually fun to do, and much more fun than posting your own personal thoughts and opinions.

I mean, it is a role-playing game after all, no? And it is a role-playing forum also, no?

I post in the streets because that's where the discussions are. If they were in OOC I would post there. I used to add a few lines of role-play before saying my say but it's rather useless fluff really, in my opinion. (Once again, I am only there for the discussions!)

This is more of a casual game than a role-play game, I must say. It has RP elements, but it's no .org

It's people like you mate that just ignore the fact it's a role-play forum, and the so called 'fluff', which isn't actually fluff, it's called fucking role-playing, that keep people like me bringing this shit up.

If you know it's a role-play environment, and you should be role-playing, then why the fuck aren't you?

It brings down the environment for those that actual enjoy role-playing and are working to better the quality.

Sovereign what you're basically saying is, you know it's a role-playing game, but your just too lazy to do it, so you prefer to be another OOC poster that doesn't give a fuck and is happy to post and bring down the quality of those that actually put effort in.

If you need a lesson in role-playing mate, there are plenty of resources on the internet to school you about what this 'fluff' really is.

Maybe do us a favour and post your OOC stuff in this forum, or put some effort into your Streets posts and stop brining the quality down.

I don't see it as OOC when I (as a character) bring forward my opinion in a discussion, though.  And man, you need to calm down. Not like the other people in these discussions (most of them) use much role-play.

If this is just a casual game and not a role-play game then the site should stop advertising it as such. I came here for role play. If you go to the wiki it even says,

"Welcome to the Mafia Returns Wiki. This is a community-run wiki for the online browser based Mafia Role-Playing Game - Mafia Returns"

Role-Playing Game, right there. So if people aren't in character then they should be posting in OOC. This just seems to be a case of there aren't enough role players around to keep it active in being in character and those who don't care to role play took over and don't bother. I guess you could say they became lazy, if no one else is doing it, then why should they have to? That kind of mentality. I have only met a few people who even seem to care much to stay in character.

If it was required more often and maybe even rewarded for more then people would possibly care to do so. Why would you join a game that calls its self a role playing game not to role play?

Perhaps this site needs to call its self JUST a Mafia game instead, no advertisement for role playing. 

I'm not saying anyone should be forced to role play though, just post your non-role play threads in OOC, simple enough.

No shit mate, this wasn't just for you, but for all. You're just the guy replying that it's OK to bring the role-play quality down just for the fuck of it. So I'll rant just for the fuck of it. Difference being, I'm ranting in the right forum.

I wont be posting in the streets anymore because this is the attitude of the majority, and it's a waste of my time trying to improve shit when no-one else really cares for it.

I understand you may feel like you're in character, yet the content of your posts and many others goes OOC. Again, research into how to role-play, write a role-play etc. and you'll learn more about it mate.

The game itself is exactly as you said, casual, with an environment that is a far cry from role-play because admin leave the userbase to create their own idea of what this is yet the funny thing is this attitude is what leaves the role-play standard here really lacking. Businesses don't let the employees dictate their own rules and regulations, it's just a bad attitude to have and is the crux of the matter.

I'm doneski. People will always post what they like because there's no real effort from a higher point to guide and sandbox the environment to have more quality. My ranting wont change anything. It's just another voice that will drown out and be forgotten, like those before me, and those to come after me.

If the content of my posts gets OOC the admins are free to inform me of so and remove the post, and I will change the post.

They wont, and that's the issue. They have no set 'standards' for role-playing here. And anything in a grey area is left to be as it is. Squishy advised me of this on my character Adz.

This lack of care on the admins side is what I guess has the more serious role-players ranting. It's nothing new, because nothings changed. Role-play at other forums has a set standard. It's clear. Here, point me to a standard and people will say it's just a 'guideline'. It's like a colour in book. If you go outside the lines, don't worry about it. It may look a little messy, and untidy, and shitty in comparison, but hey, people are still in preschool so let them draw all over the damn book instead of giving them steady lines to colour within.

The admins have a lot on their plates. They simply just can't spend all day reading every post and moving things accordingly. It is up to the user base to better patrol these things and shift them in the proper direction.

I've read plenty of books, many of which I enjoyed and a tiny number I didn't. Thanks for the suggestion though, it would have been valuable had that not been the case. 

Most of those books (in fact it'd be literally 0 in total that did) didn't require back and forth between two individuals that were having a heated debate, that required timely in character responses before other 3rd parties jumped into the conversation, that weren't both under the control and the descriptions of the author. If those books had been, I'm sure we would have witnessed a very different mechanic used to describe the interactions as the one being championed here is less than logistically feasible.

<font color="rgba(0, 0, 0, 0)">I've never heard of anyone, other than yourself the first time you raised it a few weeks ago, raise any concern or issue whatsoever with quotemarks being OOC. As someone that actively, and very frequently, partakes in heated debates I find them a very suitable and </font>reasonable<font color="rgba(0, 0, 0, 0)"> mechanic to facilitate the type of discussions that will appear (I'd suggest I probably have more quotes in the last month than anyone else, so I'm not simply championing them for the sake of it, it's something I genuinely believe).</font>

<font color="rgba(0, 0, 0, 0)">Taking this case in point, I </font>wandered<font color="rgba(0, 0, 0, 0)"> off to assist a neighbour with snow and to eat dinner. I've returned to our discussion being added to by others, yet wish to return to the point you raised specifically towards me. Whether in an IC or an OOC setting, quotemarks are an ideal way (in my mind) to facilitate this. It would have avoided me having to make this overly verbose and unrequired explanation, while also reminding you and anyone else in question what your original comment was without having to scroll back and without me having to find a RP sensitive way to throw it into the conversation.  </font>

<font color="rgba(0, 0, 0, 0)">If there is another more suitable alternative, I'd be delighted to see ideas being pitched. To me personally, having to awkwardly RP back to a previous comment using anything other than quotemarks is simply messy and does more to harm in character interactions than to assist them. Sure I can do it, sure it's easily done, however it's just fluff (the requirement to do it each time, not speaking about IC content in general) that is being used to say "In reference to your previous point that..." which is just as equally and acceptably done using quotemarks. If that is being done multiple times in a single reply, which is often the case in detailed discussions, it just becomes painful to read such a forced mechanic being added for the sake of adding it. That isn't building immersion, roleplay skills or fun, it's simply adding a grind to RPing and debates.</font>

However the way to try and resolve or improve this isn't to abuse or insult me or any other users who feel differently. That's simply counter productive. When trying to build or gain a consensus (especially when your view is potentially in the minority on a topic) avoid the patronising or condescending replies. It really doesn't help the case. In the NUMEROUS interactions I've had with your bloodline in the past I've not witnessed it before, so hopefully it's an unintended side effect of speaking on a topic you are so passionate about. 

Just remember. Others can disagree with you while still understanding your point and being fully aware of it. It just means they disagree with it, as some nearly always will.

I totally understand Scarfo's point regarding the blockquoting in threads to be honest. I've seen people lay responses out like a piece of prose, blockquoting individual points and then attacking them one by one. Not only is that petty in the extreme, it is ridiculous to read in what is meant to be a dialogue between people. 

With that said, I don't think every response requires a description of what you're doing while you say it. If that doesn't conform to your definition (or even the definition if I'm wrong and you're interpretation is dead on the money) of what role-playing is, then I'm happy we are wrong.

I don't play this game to read 17 times in one discussion that someone is frowning. I know you're frowning after the first time you say it. I don't need you to repeat your facial expressions again and again just because that is "correct role-playing" and every post requires some form of accompanying description to make it conform. That isn't how conversation works and it isn't how life works, which is what role-playing is meant to emulate. 

I'd love there to be less OOC in the streets, but I imagine my opinion and your opinion of what OOC is would wildly differ. I used OOC remarks earlier today in a post within brackets because the point I was making, I had already made multiple times and was continually being misunderstood. Would a description of my facial expressions have changed that? I doubt it, so I'm always going to do what I did instead because it achieves my purpose in the most effective manner possible. If there was an option to make it redacted so it said OOC: and then nobody could see it unless they clicked it, I would use that, but there isn't. Therefore, you're going to just have to accept some things and live with them or be "doneski".

Nuada if you feel me adding swear words to a post as being abusive or insulting then you may want to toughen up that skin a little. I haven't called you any names, fuck and shit just add to my expression (and frustration). Take out the swear words, the 'exclamations, and it'll read like a nice little post without profanity. Either way, there is no-where I have 'abused' anyone. It's just my passion coming through, for fuck sake. (as a example).

Both yourself and Barry and many others will still see these discussion threads as in character discussions, when they are littered with OOC context and the quote boxes just add to the non role-play in these threads. It's less about adding 'fluff' to these posts, and more the point that the posts themselves are just OOC discussions you guys have from your own personal opinions and somehow feel that it's all done in character.

Role-play, again, is playing a role or character. In a forum setting its adding to and continuing to evolve the original thread through more than just OOC dialogue and discussion.

Maybe instead of it being called a role-play forum, it should just be called what it is. A place to discuss various topics, both in character and out of character, with an emphasis on the latter. Or maybe an actual role-playing forum should be created that isn't The Streets, so those that do wish to role-play can do so and actually participate in these discussion, and role-play.

Because The Streets is labelled a role-play environment, I don't partake in these discussions yet would really fucking like to. It's just they aren't in character discussions, and I'm not going to another who follows the masses and helps ass fuck what role-play is really about.

You guys are missing the point. The quote boxes are fine in these threads, because they aren't role-play at all from the get go. If you can actively use a quote box to reference someone else's thoughts and respond with your own, then you're not role-playing, your just discussing things from your own personal standpoint. The so called 'fluff' and stuff you guys feel is a nuisance is actually called role-playing guys. Sorry it's such a burden to role-play in a role-play forum. This is the whole problem. Threads that are OOC discussions to begin with in the wrong place.

Barry I am definitely doneski on the role-play. I'll get my fix elsewhere, without a doubt because MR is shocking, nay shit (sorry if this offends you nuada) when it comes to the topic and execution of role-playing. I'll click about, rank and just not post. Vision, who needs it. What I wont do is degrade the art form that is role-play though and add to the shitty streets environment that is just another OOC forum masquerading as a role-playing forum because the majority are happy with what shit they produce and advocate as role-play.

I have standards, which aren't that different from any serious role-player, and those wont be lowered because the majority choose to interpret role-playing as out of character discussions 'minus all the fluff and stuff that gets in the way of our OOC chats' in a supposed role-play forum.

The sad thing is, people that start to learn to role-play here, wont have a fucking clue what it's really about.

Actually I'm not completely donski with role-play, as just clicking about is boring as fuck. I'll be focusing my attention in the business districts. When people do post in these areas, they are completely role-played and not littered with the OOC content that plagues the streets.

Would/can you find discussion threads in the Business District forum with quote boxes and 'none of this distracting and annoying fluffy stuff'? Or is the entire forum itself, and the posts therein, nothing but these kinds of posts?

If admin are happy and content to let the streets be a mixture of both OOC and IC threads and posts then it's too much of a mess imo. Start policing the streets, or you will have other serious role-players focus their attention where they can actually get some good role-play happening, which may not even be here at all.