Popping my OOC cherry here so be gentle with me.

I want to start a conversation about alternatives to genocide but before that let me just clarify something. This thread is not about the reasons for a genocide such as the recent ones in Philly and Detroit. It is not about whether those reasons were justified or not. It is not about how compromises are stupid and they will never work. If that is all you wish to say, kindly stay away. I'm looking at you Insidious398.

Now that the disclaimer is out of the way, let us consider a scenario where someone did something wrong and the regime decided something needed to be done. What I want to talk about is other suggestions to deal with an offending individual that they can apply. I wanna talk about how feasible they are and what it will take to implement them.

I'll start with 3 possible solutions

1. Monetary compensation

2. Purging of upper structure and replacing them with existing crew members

3. A public trial with the Godfathers from each city as the jury, a defendant a prosecutor, whole 9 yards.

It is not about how compromises are stupid and they will never work. If that is all you wish to say, kindly stay away. I'm looking at you Insidious398. 

Harsh, I never once said that compromises are stupid and would never work. I actually agree with the sentiment behind your thread and think that compromises in situations such as ours would be a useful took. My issue with it is that the current regime have proven time and time again that they aren't in the mood to compromise and that genocide of crews is very much still on the menu. 

1. Monetary compensation

This actually was/is a thing, the problem lies when certain people decide that its not enough. For example when someone shoots a CA accidentally, the crew leader offers compensation to cover the cost of the CA and their earnings, yet the aggrieved individual who lost the CA wants blood split over what is essentially a NPC and is in a position of power to do what they want without anyone being able to question it.

2. Purging of upper structure and replacing them with existing crew members

All well and good but for the majority of the occasions the upper structure of a crew is removed because the current leaders want to shoot the members for cannon fodder and +1s.

A public trial with the Godfathers from each city as the jury, a defendant a prosecutor, whole 9 yards.

Again a wonderful idea however its a bit pointless and one sided when all the godfathers are all part of the same group of friends. 

You raise good points and the suggestions make sense and i'm sure in a perfect world they would all probably be awesome functioning solutions. 

All good ideas. It does come down to who's pulling the strings though and what they choose to do, and depends on the situations being managed. Sometimes genocide makes sense. Other times compromising is all that is needed.

1. How about the regime comes up with a standard price for any potential crimes? Say $X for a dead CA, $Y for not helping hunt a rogue.
That way any time any such instance occurs, there is no chance for anyone to claim the remuneration is not sufficient.

2. Interesting. What is more beneficial to members of the regime in the long run though? A few more +1s or a crew under a puppet CL of their choice from somewhere within the existing crew?

3. Trials are never just about the Jury. They are about the public perception to both sides of the argument. Heck they could set up an impartial moderator to go over the proceedings. 

Does any of that sound doable?

Alright, does anyone have any idea of why that might not work. Any loopholes it might have that we can solve before proposing it?

1. As long as they stuck to their own rules rather than one of them and one for everyone else then I see no issue with it.

2. When people continually keep coming back and trying again providing them with a never ending list of both, it doesn't really matter.

3. All well and good but IF in the event that was possible and could be put in place then it wouldn't surprise me if every decision went their way regardless because everyone's afraid to stand up to them due to the imminent death afterwards.

2. Kill off the Made + and let the wise guys and lower ranks to seek refuge into other existing crews if a puppet crew is not a good idea.

3. See, I think you are missing the point. Right now, whenever something happens, selective facts appear from either side and the public forms a biased opinion while both sides claim they have proof of further wrongdoing. In a public trial, the evidence will be visible. Even if the decisions go "their way", the public as a whole gets an accurate picture of exactly what is happening instead of a few disgruntled comments from someone with a grudge. This could in theory be used as a precedent against either side as and when they are involved in a new case.

2. I'm not sure what you're suggesting here but if its that wise guys and below should be allowed to find other homes then I agree and its the way it used to be until recently.

3. No i'm not and I get your point. Firstly, no matter when, where or how it is provided, 'evidence' will always be denied by people who don't like it and theres no actual way for it to be proven 100% that its accurate. Numerous people over many months have provided evidence on here and its never admitted to as being correct by the people it looks bad for and it never will no matter how its provided or by who.

2. That is exactly what I am suggesting. So.. what changed?

3. So your alternative is... what?

2. No idea what swayed the decision but it seemingly just changed overnight and the decision was made to not give a fuck about anyone regardless of rank.

3. I wish I could provide you with one but I can't. There is nothing that I can see can be done that won't ultimately work in their favour.

Right. So the takeaways from this discussion so far are, 

1. Standardized Remuneration

2. Pushback on rank based leniency during purges

3. Trials are irrelevent

Any other insights/suggestions?

Compensation and replacing sounds good 

I'm not an experienced player like most of you but the trial thing won't work in my opinion aside from the reason you have wrote.

My reason is that, if some trial were going to happen i will took a really long time to have a result and i mean the trial comes to an end by result not talking about fair judgement.In the mean time i am sure someone kill someone and it will be another chaos.

As you guys mentioned earlier standart compansations and crew member replaciments sounds good and that things won't took a long time .That way problems can be dealt with before anyone had a chance to do anything good.

But it all comes to the decision's of the GF's of course 

I disagree. In my opinion they would be open to suggestions for standardizing some processes as long as they maintain complete hegemony.
Nevertheless, I am willing to make an effort to see if I can convince them. I will probably fail, but on the off chance I don't, wouldn't it be better if the changes that are proposed are something we as a community have discussed and approved?

1.

Financial compensation is usually the first port of call for smaller offences already. A dead CA for example is very, very, very seldom fatal. The offending party has to apologise, compensate the lost CA and the lost drugs and more often than not, that will be that. 

The problem for most people on the outside, I guess, is that you don't usually hear about most of the day to day incidents unless someone ends up in an obituary. I'm not really sure how to remedy that, but during most days someone is doing something that requires an interaction between players and/or the leaders of those players. The outcomes vary, but I'll try to let people sort their own shit out wherever possible. If I have to step in, I will and wherever possible, I let the other player's responses dictate my actions so I'm not in favour of "fixed" responses to a situation. 

2.

If a crew is feared of housing rogues, then invariably the crew is going to squashed to eliminate potential threats. Wherever possible, I like to see as minimal loss of life as can be achieved. This is again a two-way street; see a whole swathe of people shooting at the attackers when they've been spared and the boot will be lowered in the next few skirmishes. Right now, when we have people openly stating there will be a rogue every single day, ensuring the survival of a now deceased Don's crew is not priority one. 

3.

A Godfather council adjudicating certain matters could be really interesting. I've often wanted to stage a sit-down and see how that would play out, with people being brought to the table to squash their problems. However, when I get wind of the Godfather council wanting to see me, why wouldn't I just shoot the nearest person I don't like and get myself a pro? Lots of things are nice in theory but hard to implement in reality.

How to improve things

Open to suggestions as to how I/We can make things better for the majority of people. If they are plausible, I'll do my best to see them introduced. 

However, there are things you can do to help yourself. The first and easiest one is to be honest with yourself about your aims and ambitions for your character. Once you've done that, put it into practice. I like to consider a few simple questions at startup:

• Who am I? 
• How did I get here?
• Where do I want to get to?
• Who can help me get there?
• Why would they let me get there?

Just by asking myself these things, I already have a clear idea of how my character is going to map out. I'm LarryLongNeck. I was the bastard son of LuciusSweet and I was being groomed (easy) by Disorder to succeed him in the family business. When Lucius was shot, Disorder continued my tutelage and positioned me for a run to the top. I want to get to be the head of my own family, get an assload of money, women and power. Disorder can help me get there. I'll do whatever I can to help him succeed so that he'll give me what I want.

Once I've decided at outset what I want and how I'm going to get it, I start to put meat on the bones.

• How can I be of use to my boss?
• What does he need that I enjoy doing?
• How can I show I'm not a shitter?

These aren't as easy and require patience and dedication. To help my family I have a jobs board in our HQ (which I have actually neglected a little) which states some of the things I really need right now. Here are some example:

https://gyazo.com/2bea69687b0a10027ff7957e38cff3db

https://gyazo.com/0f44469a2b7fa3a1359565b8975efd12

These certainly aren't definitive, but it shows you're arsed enough to participate. Most people fail to commit to their family and wonder why their leader doesn't trust them, like they should just automatically be included with little to no effort on their part. That isn't how it works, especially not in the current climate.

If I've being trying to prove myself and I'm still worried I'm going to get the chop, the number 1 best way to get a chance is to ask for it. Send your leader a mail and put it on the table, OOC if you're really concerned, promise not to fuck them over, mean it and stick to it. But you do have to mean it and you do have to stick it. That means if you hear your old pal is going to try and fuck up the regime, tell them. Don't sit on that information because guilt by omission is still guilt. 

Anyway, if, after all that, you're still killed and you've been genuinely committed and loyal to your family, then you either got unlucky or chose a bad leader.

To those who are disillusioned, have "no hope", whatever, ask yourself how you start each character. Do you play it new or do you go back to all your old friends and complain about how shit it is? Do you genuinely try to help your leader and their family or do you just stick it out long enough so you can get some revenge? Do you turn in the shitters who whisper to you or do you give them locals or fail to report them? Being a sneak is fine and not committing is fine too, but if you get caught you will die and then you don't really have grounds to complain.

Apologies for the meandering thoughts.

You try so hard to make that sound like the truth, I almost believe it. So smooth with words. But the dozens and dozens of people who die again and again and again for bloodlines and "accusations" without even being spoken too first​​​​​​, prove otherwise. Getting answers afterwards is equally hard. "oh, you died because of this". Ask for proof, or some details, and you're ignored, never to be spoken to again. That's your right to do, being at the top, but don't sit here and act like everything is just fine and peachy if you "abide by the rules". People have tried that and died anyway through rumors and lies or just plain simple dislike. 

I think you honestly believe what you say sometimes, but once again you are one person and one CL. You idyllic versions of "work hard and your history doesn't matter" is bullshit. When you dislike a person your view of them is already biased no matter how many characters or fresh starts you claim to offer. You see them through a filter of their past because we're humans and that's generally how we operate. This regime operates in shoot first, don't ever bother to ask questions. You literally killed an entire district IN YOUR OWN CITY based on falsified screenshots. So....I call bullshit. 

A lot of lies being put out here :(

Call bullshit, call me a liar, keep doing the same shit you've been doing for the past 4 months and see what happens. I guess we can all predict how that'll go. Alternatively, maybe I am not totally full of shit and you give this a try. Discard your IRC persona and start over being someone else free from all the bollocks. Wouldn't that be nice?

Anyway, those are my thoughts as a member of my family asked me to post in his first visit to OOC and I was happy to oblige.

Discard your IRC persona and start over being someone else free from all the bollocks

Yeah cause in the long run that works out nicely for a whole bunch of people.