I know what you are saying, however I still disagree. As I said, if you are a proper CL or GF as you are, constantly posting and making social commentary, then you have tantimount to a permanent increase.

Sure if you wanna be a lazy assed mofo its gonna be an issue. And yes, I can understand your point that from a RP PoV it makes little sense that a Thug has a better info skill than a GF, after all its not just about what you can see, but what your contacts know too. However, if I don't work on my Defence or my attack, it is possible for a Gangster to have higher in both of these than me. Sure its unlikely that someone who has never trained their gun gets to the rank of GF, but its not impossible if you surround yourself with the right people.

Unfortunately, if you add info to the list of trained skills, then its possible to become super at everything. People like Diemne and yourself become all knowing, all seeing, super killers with impregnatable defence. Once at this state, you can sit back and do pretty much nothing secure in the fact that you are for the most part, untouchable. Having one sklill for the little people, and one that you constantly have to work at, in my mind at least, is a good idea.

As this is a RPG and as I have done in the past, let me compare this to the rules of another RPG, in this case R Talsorian's Cybberpunk. The Specioal ability Streetdeal is as close to the info skill as not. It is the only special ability that has to have time and effort and money constantly spent on it or it starts to decrease. Why? If you aren't out there moving a shaking, people start to forget you, and your sources stop being sources.

Doesn't matter if you are a thug or a GF, if you lock yourself away in your ivory tower, you ability to discern and diseminate information decreases. When you are out walking the streets, being seen, you overhear tidbits and pick up on the subtlties of the underworld.

From a personal perspective, I have no intention of locking myself away and I'll always post regardless of whether it helps my vision or not.

I can see what you're saying, I guess it really boils down to whether or not we think it is right that regardless of work put in already, your vision decreases. To me, it seems a little much to expect for someone to constantly post in businesses and to use italics discussing the weather in order to boost your vision for months on end. But, if that is how it is meant to be, I guess I'm in the minority with that view.

I guess we just have to trust that the admins will delete stupid, superfluous and pathetic posts made just to boost info skill.

Wack - you are a superior killer, able to kill as soon as you get a gun.
Def - Hard to kill by people who haven't really trained their gun

This is the part of the point, I believe. Wack answers are ok, but you're not a "superior" killer yet. You still can't hit the back end of a bus without training. Defense answers are the same, you're not a hard kill (yet). On info answers, you go straight to the top of the vision class, matching the best of them....including people who have year old, well-worked accounts.

It is relative though Lucid. I've killed Earners at Gangster on Full wack answers, I've also missed Gangsters at earner. All I'm saying is sometimes it is possible to just start off naturally good at something. If Gwarble and others, myself included, continue to put in the time in the businesses and on the streets, then its a non issue.

"If Gwarble and others, myself included, continue to put in the time in the businesses and on the streets"

As an example, let's say I was training my info and my friend bob was training his wack, for 2 weeks we put in similar/identical effort into posting and wacking respectively. After 2 weeks, my info skill is comparably equal to his wack skill - but then we decide to go away for a nice holiday for 2 weeks or so. When we return, his wack skill is the same but unfortunately my info skill has somewhat deteriorated. I really don't see that as fair. I personally think that any effort you put in is 'non reversible' execpt by player actions - ie demotions, getting killed, et cetera.

The biggest issue for me though, is the info boost given when on info answers compared to the boosts given on wack/d answers. If I signed up on wack or D, I obviously wouldn't expect to have that skill superior to a Godfather, or even a made man.

A key factor in this game has always been the effort you put in. In fact, I remember one of the most base concepts, to paraphrase Squishy, is that you should only be able to kill an account if the sum total of work you've put in outweighs theirs.

With this in mind, how is it any where approaching fair that I could sign up and immediately have better info than a higher ranker. Even if that high ranker hasn't put particular effort into developing his info skill, he has put work in to ensure he has ranked, and that alone means he has done more than me.

I've noticed when I've posted in bars on this account, a relatively simple post has improved by vision by 3-6 people, which is quite a jump. To make it a permanent boost, why not make individual posts less beneficial? To get more, you must do more. 5 posts will increase your vision in that city by an average of 1, for example.

It is relative though Lucid. I've killed Earners at Gangster on Full wack answers, I've also missed Gangsters at earner. All I'm saying is sometimes it is possible to just start off naturally good at something.

You've just re-iterated my point. On full wack, you don't open your account with a gun that is comparable to the best in the game. On vision, you can see everything from the word go.

As stated by Squishy, you don't see everything though, even with full info skill. Higher rank shouldn't immediately mean a better skill, same as with wacking. If you put nothing in, you get nothing out.

That is kind of the point of the whole thread. If you put something in, repeatedly, for months and months, I think you should be able to raise your base skill. Even if it takes a lot of work, like the other skills, it should be possible. I don't even mind the signup with info remaining the same, just some allowance for copious amounts of work over a sustained period.

I think the current system is fine as is. As other people have said, information changes every second of every minute of every hour - places change, things move, people talk. Daily. It'd be unrealistic to have a permanent hold on it because, in reality, you have to keep in the loop and make yourself known on the streets and, in some cases, be right near the source of information when it happens. Wack is a learned skill that takes years (ingame, anyway) to master - You know how to handle threats, you know what tools of the trade to use, and to accomplish it successfully you'll have to do it many, many times - and even then, things can screw up. Information? It evolves daily. To different reactions, rumours, distortion, and the like. It really isn't something you can have a permanent hold on from what you accomplished - in the game's eyes, anyway, to a post losing it's value - many years ago.

You're missing the point Billy. What you're saying is true, but Gwarble is talking about those Thugs who START OUT with near-flawless permanent vision, without having to make a single post. How does that figure into your equation? They do nothing to "keep in the loop" and "make themselves known" yet they might have better vision that Gwarble. Isn't that weird?

Nope. I think the price of getting that permanent boost is high enough to compensate. No gun skills, no defence, and no stealth. Sure you can see almost everyone, but almost everyone can see and shoot and kill you in return.

And whilst we are on the subject, i'd like to see wack etc reduced if you don't train/use it. As with all skills, if you don't practice you loose your ability. If you don't wack for 2 weeks, then yes your wack ability should drop some. After all, a Week in RL is equivilent to a year in game.

Nope. I think the price of getting that permanent boost is high enough to compensate. No gun skills, no defence, and no stealth. Sure you can see almost everyone, but almost everyone can see and shoot and kill you in return.

The only problem there is, not many people will use info answers seriously. They'll die in a war on their wack/defense, sign up on info and use it from there....whilst being untouchable to any gun.

Is that what you did mate? :p

Exactly aye. It's something you shouldn't be able to do, but I'm not stupid enough not to use it if it's there ;)