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| The role of funerals | Started by: JohnnyAxe on Jan 11, '08 02:59 |
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Spending the day running between funeral parlors is the worst aftermath of war. A comment at one in particular forced me to think a bit about funerals and their place in this world. For obvious reasons, I dislike seeing those I care about lying dead as a result of my decision-making. However, I don't solely attend the funerals of my family members. I go to the funerals of those that I don't see often outside of the coffee shops. I go to the funerals of those that tried to kill me, where many that wish me dead are present. I go to the funerals of those I didn't know well, but for whom I had respect. I've come to realize that this behavior is generally accepted, but I'm starting to wonder just how much sense it makes. If funerals are an outside realm where we put aside our allegiances and family ties, then how can someone be punished for funeral disrespect? Yes, perhaps that's a bit extreme, but I think that demonstrates my point effectively--that is, that funerals should be a reflection of yourself and the life you lead in this world. If one is not allowed to spit on someone's grave, then he or she should also not be allowed to speak disrespectfully of anyone in a funeral--not just the deceased. Where is the line? We can either police the funerals or let them be free-for-alls, and I'm strongly opposed to the latter. Or, perhaps, is there some middle ground that I have yet to discover? What I'm specifically asking is this: when at a funeral, does one's coffee shop personality supersede one's role in this life? I'm curious to hear what you all think. |
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You bring up a very good point my friend. Funerals seem to be a different world from the one we live in. It's like the rules change. You can be on one side of a war yet go to a persons funeral and commend them and give your respects, but if they were still alive it'd be kind of strange to talk like that during wartime. I know this might not make all that much sense but it is hard for me to put these kind of thoughts into words, but I choose to attempt... |
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| Reply by: SuperSao at Jan 11, '08 03:11 | |
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I think you boys are correct, and i'm going to start attending all of the funerals I can, freind or enemy. ;)... I may leave MORE roses, or guns, or flowers for freinds, but I will still attempt to attend all funerals.... I think it will help the relatives of the deceased realize that dead or alive, their ancestors are missed. :( Much love. WaterSign <3 |
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| Reply by: WaterSign at Jan 11, '08 03:16 | |
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I always found it funny how serious everyone took grave disrespect around here. I mean I can't complain, because then it creates more targets and friction. It's hard to say what exactly is disrespectful, everyone just sort of knows. What I find absolutely delightful is that you can't say anything negative in someone's funeral, but CAN make lengthy street declarations against them (if phrased in the right backhanded manner). I mean at one point DOES it infringe on freedom of speech censorship. |
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| Reply by: MolotovMcHugh at Jan 11, '08 03:36 | |
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Johnny as others have said you raise a good point. Personally I have my on reasons for going to funerals Obviously if it is family then I will always be there to give my condolences and say a few words about the deceased. when I was growing up I was taught that the funerals are a place to show your last respects to a person and the reason I go to most of the funerals I attend is because I respected the person. sometimes it may be someone who I disliked or didnt get along with but just because you dont get along with someone doesnt mean you dont respect what they have achieved in life and should be remembered for in death. As for disrespecting someone at a funeral I believe if you have nothing good to say then dont say anything at all. whatever he has done to you whether it be right or wrong, he is now dead. let it lie, move on and get on with your life. |
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| Reply by: Moretay at Jan 11, '08 03:45 | |
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I mostly attend funerals for family and close friends. However, there are the time where I do attend them for those I didn't know too well but respected in some way or another. I don't believe that just because you disliked someone that you should go into their funeral and disrespect them in any way, while all of their friends and family are there to mourn and pay their last respects. Let the dead rest in peace. Whatever it was that you disliked about that person is now dead and buried, literally. Move on. |
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| Reply by: Belle at Jan 11, '08 04:21 | |
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As far as attending funerals, if you hated the person then you have no reason to be there. if you didn't get along, they are dead so you don't have to deal with him anymore...(that is if you believe in not holding the sins of the parents against their children, but thats a whole other story). I don't think it has a thing to do with respect, that word is all but forgotten in this age, i think its more of being decent and not spiteful or an ass. And to address another question about weather there should be a line between coffee shop persona and the daily life in this world... i don't think you can, too many times are they intertwined in too many ways for someone to draw a line here, You are what you are regardless of where you are. well if y'all can follow that then i got my point across if not, bummer. |
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| Reply by: Krash at Jan 11, '08 04:34 | |
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The problem is people don't know how to act. When they go to a funeral, they act like they are leaving a note in some public writing forum instead of walking into a funeral parlor surrounded by real people. I don't know what makes people think this way. Must be all the chemicals in the drinking water. Molotov, freedom of speech is indeed a great liberty that we have in this country. That and the other constitutional rights are a major reason why I immigrated here from Italy. Unfortunately, it only protects you against the government infringing on your speech. It doesn't prevent the mafia from infringing on your speech. Also, you aren't taking into account settings. You can act one way in the streets, but that doesn't make it proper in other venues. You can fart or scratch your balls in the street, but I wouldn't suggest doing it at church. Just as you can act a different way in the privacy of your family HQ. (OOC: This whole thread is about staying in character. Inappropriate funeral actions are a form of OOC. Being in character also means being mindful of the setting. Are you in the streets, a bar, your HQ, or at a church or funeral parlor? Most people only understand OOC in terms of the words they use, but actions can be OOC as well. A Gangster slagging off a Don is OOC, just as walking into a funeral and spewing insults is OOC, unless you are walking in with an army behind you. It could be done properly, if anyone actually understood this concept. For example, the person would have to be powerful to start with, not some street thug....*Don Mc_Tavish bursts through the doors to the funeral parlor with four men to each side, all with guns drawn. The mourners gasp as he barks out an order. "I want everyone to leave this funeral now! This piece of shit doesn't deserve the ritual given here!*) |
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| Reply by: VanillaIce at Jan 11, '08 09:06 | |
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The way I see it is that funeral are a place where everyone who has at one point come in contact with the recently deceased can come to pay their respects. That doesn't just mean family and friends, it can be enemies or someone they have shared a joke with while sitting in the next cell in jail. The most important thing to remember when visiting a funeral is that their will be friends and family there and the deceased can't defend themselves. It's a time for remembrance any bad blood should be left at the gates before moving to the graveside or into the parlor. A funeral isn't a place to get one last dig in and it certainly isn't the place to make some half assed attempt at belittling the dead or their family. If your going to go to a funeral you go to pay your respects, if you want to scream and shout at someone there is plenty of room out here in the streets. |
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| Reply by: SmokingKills at Jan 11, '08 10:37 | |
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WaterSign reminds me of Frederico "Fredo" Corleone I wonder if she laughs at them and cries at weddings. |
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| Reply by: SlappySue at Jan 11, '08 12:14 | |
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Mike_Hunt hears the conversations and starts to listen. After awhile he speaks... Coffee Shop persona's will always have a tie to the life. Funerals are always announced in the them. Family or Foe, they are all announced. Funeral disrespect is the worst kind of disrespect. Funeral disrespect goes beyond anything in my opinion. Someone screws up and they pay it with their life. Why disrespect when they've paid their dues? Its simple, if you don't respect the person in question, don't attend their funeral. I think we need to police ourselves and handle those who disrespect at funerals. Now your question "When at a funeral, does one's coffee shop personality supersede one's role in this life?", is a very hard one to answer. I mean anybody who's anybody really uses the coffee shop as a place of relaxation and a get together with one another. Its hard not to supersede the life with your coffee shop personality. But should it? No, and in my opinion I think we do a good job of it really. It should never supersede this life here but sometimes it does. Funerals bring it out in us as its an emotional time. I hope my opinion helps answer your question Mr. Axe. Mike_Hunt lights a cig while he walks away from the gentlemen. |
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| Reply by: Mike_Hunt at Jan 11, '08 12:54 | |
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It's not about respecting the dead. If you didn't respect them when they were alive, you won't when they're dead either. It's about respecting the people that do love and respect the dead. Even if it's some civilian, think about bein at your dad's funeral and some guy comes in talkin shit? What I'm sayin is the people you need to respect are the ones who have lost someone, the ones who did nothing wrong to you, who you've likely never met. To say respect this guy just cause he's a corpse, that don't work. That's why people don't have a problem fucking around at the funerals...cuz they didn't respect the guy when he was alive and there's no magic emotional change that takes place when the guy dies that makes them suddenly respect the guy. |
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| Reply by: Pinches_Vago at Jan 11, '08 15:18 | |
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| Reading some responses I personally wonder this. I think respect should be shown for the dead, but if that person disrespected you then why not disrespect him. Would you have respect for me if I trash mouthed you while alive, then when I die you're like, "oh R.I.P. you gave it a good run or something". I think respect should be given, but if you can prove they disrespected you while alive then you should be aloud to say whatever you like at their funeral. Personally I bit my tongue. However I think those who were disrespected by the deceased mafioso should be aloud to say what the please.... maybe to an extent. What do you think of that? | |
| Reply by: The_Fallen at Jan 13, '08 08:13 | |
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Being "allowed" to disrespect isn't the point. Try this experiment, and maybe you will understand... Right now, get up from your chair, and find a funeral home that is currently holding services. Walk into the room, stand there for a minute, then say "He was a piece of shit". Now wait and see what happens. After you are released from the hospital, you should understand why disrespect in funerals is not tolerated in a place that attempts to mimic reality. |
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| Reply by: Dr_Grabow at Jan 13, '08 09:02 | |
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| Thank you for your responses. However, I wasn't asking if funeral disrespect is appropriate. I was asking if funerals are something that we attend or that our coffee shop personalities attend. You see, there have been instances when someone at a funeral says something disrespectful not to the person that died, but about another person--namely, a family leader with whom he or she was at war. Can a crew leader punish someone within their crew for this form of disrespect? | |
| Reply by: JohnnyAxe at Jan 13, '08 17:26 | |
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| What's said between a mourner and the dead should be between those two and those two alone in my opinion. If I'm understanding you correctly Mr. Axe, then for example, if someone says something like "Rest in Peace. It's a shame that Cronus was a no good, lying, piece of crap and shot you", then that is a message for the deceased and not the no good, lying, piece of crap Cronus. That's my opinion. | |
| Reply by: Cronus at Jan 13, '08 17:31 | |
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Yes, you're understanding me correctly. If that's the case, though, can people be punished for funeral disrespect? If words are just between the "mourner" and the deceased, how would crew leaders know what's said? What's to stop someone from going to my funeral and calling me names for example? |
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| Reply by: JohnnyAxe at Jan 13, '08 17:40 | |
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Oliver steps through the small gathered group of people listening to his esteemed Right Hand. With a small cough he holds up his hand to gain the attention of those nearby. If I may say something? He pauses a moment before giving off a grin. Right then. You bring up a very, very interesting subject, Johnny my pal. So interesting, I’m afraid that the meaning may have been lost on some... as you... just now commented. I’m a mong. Oh well. My ancestors were taught, and inevitably passed down to me, that funerals are held to honor the dead person- not their coffeeshop personality, not their Father or mother before them, not their son or daughter. End of story. Though it does often happen; it is always so confusing and sort of ridiculous to see patrons speak of things such as, "See you tomorrow bro", or even worse, "hit me up when you are back". The dead walking the streets? I honestly only thought that happened on All Hallow’s Eve or in my wildest nightmares, but I could, of course, be mistaken. All joking aside, there should be no outside influences- for example alternate personalities- upon what takes place at the funeral. We- we as the Mafiosi who walk these cobblestone streets- we attend these funerals. No one else- no other aspect of ourselves, no alternate personalities. The same goes for those who have died. Perhaps you will see said deceased’s son or daughter in the near future, but by no means will you ever see that person in the casket alive ever again. Pay your final respects, grieve properly and get out. Axe, I myself act much like you in that I only attend the funerals of people that I respected at some point throughout their existence. Yes, I’ll be the first to admit that from time to time my funeral visits do get twisted between myself and my coffeeshop persona at times, but respect is something that I believe knows no bounds. While I cannot bestow upon you an answer for why funerals seem to transcend more than the normal restrictions of ‘character’ found commonly on the streets, in the headquarters or city bars, I strongly believe that disrespect- whether out of this world, towards the deceased, towards the person who killed them, towards the Father or Grandfather of any of the aforementioned people should not be tolerated. Breathes heavily after his long run on sentence. Anger is not an emotion that should be brought into that Church on the day of a funeral, period. Grief, depression- all others that can be grouped with the former two... yes, fine. Outright rage towards anyone should not be acceptable. Keep in mind that the person's mother is there- don't upset the poor woman more than she already is bound to be! Hope that clears something up for you, my friend. Claps Johnny on the shoulder and leans in quickly to whisper something important before stepping back into the gathered crowd. |
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| Reply by: Oliver_McTavish at Jan 13, '08 17:46 | |
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| well Johnny... i think the admins should be a bit more strict on people abusing stuff. when someone has died from the stuff they did or diddn't do it's frankly enugh punishment. if i died i think i'd fucking scream. why? not becouse of "my imbah er account of D00M" but becouse i've used time and effort to be here. someone pissing on my grave is like a drop in the ocean afterwards but when the cup is allready full it's no reason for it to run over. | |
| Reply by: LaughingJack at Jan 13, '08 18:12 | |
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