Sam Carollo steps up to curb and starts to speak to those within earshot.

“We have seen some recent discussion on made men, respect, power and how they relate. While I found the wandering discussion interesting I wanted to make so many different points I decided the topic deserved its own space. Let me start with the made man himself. We have debated what it takes to become one to no end. Now let’s consider the respect due to each made man and where it derives the power to be enforced. In my view, once I make a guy, even if you think he is a tard and I an even bigger one, he is due respect. Not because I have the muscle to require it or enforce it, but because collectively we have told everyone that this guy is untouchable. We have collectively said, when you speak to this man, be respectful. As a CL I am part of this group and if I found a made man in my family disrespecting another made man publically I would be required by my own convictions to make sure it didn’t stand. So I don’t think a made man of a weak CL would have to worry too much about lack of respect from anyone, because over everyone is a CL enforcing our collective will. This idea goes a long way to avoiding all out war. We have this group, and we all don’t shoot at or disrespect each other in public because we say so.

This brings me to the idea of power. Power matters when it comes to enforcing your own will in other ways. And it is here where rank matters most. For instance a stolen MIA or even a pickpocket can have varied consequences depending on the ability a family has to enforce them and who did it. We have seen a great example in the exercise of power just recently. This power is unique in that its over exercise can result in bringing the collective will against the powerful. We saw examples of that in the past, the lesson was clear: being powerful requires tact to keep the collective will from turning against you. This holds true within our own rank structure, even a boss has to be careful not to disrespect that other guys capo.

So for me it’s not that your powerful family demands I respect you, it’s that all the leaders of the families demand that you respect us and who we have chosen.”

Sam steps down from the curb to listen.

After listening to Mr. Carollo McDermott steps forward.

I understand and agree that regardless of the city or family being strong or weak a made man deserves respect. Anyone that has obtained that rank short of a few bloodlines that will go unnamed it is something that should never be written off. However power and respect do go hand in hand.

Before addressing the crowd McDermott loosens his tie and then looks forward.

I apologize for the pause. I don't want to risk being hung for the words I'm going to speak because everyone knows its a touchy subject. However in a fight people must know when and what to say. For example a made man from Chicago gets into a fight in the streets with one from say St. Louis. More than likely if words got to fierce and leaders backed their button men then the power would be with Chicago. Not because of rank but because of St. Louis being a city that is recently under new management.

So when you talk about power and respect they both go hand in hand in my eyes. I will respect a made man and his words but I would more than likely tread carefully knowing that the person I'm exchanging words with is from a city that is known for being quite strong in numbers and hitters.

Which I believe is an accurate assumption all around.

Straightening his tie back up McDermott steps back.

It's not what you say, it's how you say it. Which you can bank on from a bloodline that has learned that the hard way.

Tipping his hat McDermott walks off whistling.

It's not what you say, it's how you say it. Which you can bank on from a bloodline that has learned that the hard way.

I heard McDermott say this today and I would have to disagree.

It isn't what you say, it isn't how you say it.

The major point will always be how others perceive what you say. 95% of our world could listen to you and not take offence however it only takes one person be that your Crew Leader, a more powerful crew leader or someone with the ear of a powerful figure and your life could take a down turn very very swiftly.
When my blood line first started in our world and became more active, wise words were spoken to me before I started speaking in the streets.

"Son, before you say something run over it in your mind a few times and think is it possible someone could be offended by this. If the answer to this is yes and you think it will get you into trouble then that is a sign to not say it"

Death finishes his date with Captain Stubbing's mother. She wasn't bad for a corpse, and her combat boots gave her an aire of mystery, but her doubted he'd see her again. She was definately to free and easy with her virtues... well as free and easy as a body can be, and her regular squeeze, Jimmy the Mortician, wasn't likly to give up on his favourite fun time gal. Sure Death could probably just Ice the little prick, but in this day and age Morticians where in short supply, and the amount of bodies piling up in the morgue every day was growing faster than the bulge in the Judge's pants when Mrs Stubbings colostomy bag had tumbled out just after dinner.

I disagree McDermott, Power and respect don't go hand in hand. There are plenty of people around here who have power, whom I don't resp[ect, and likewise there are plenty of people I respect who seemingly don't have power. Its that old addage 'Respect is earned'. Roman had power, I didn't respect him, I didn't know the man from adam, but he gave me a chance and as I have worked under him I have come to respect the him. It wasn't his power that made me resp[ect him, it was his dedication to his city, and his members and his fairness.

In this thing of ours, fear is the weapon of choice, and that's what it comes down too. Why do people not attack Roman and TheDean? Well with their own cities its probably respect, but for those outside, its more likely fear. A realisation of what these men have accomplished in the past and the fear that if you stand in their way they will mow you down like yesterdays grass.

"even if you think he is a tard and I an even bigger one, he is due respect" Can we make a difference between showing respect and having respect? If I think he is a tard, maybe I'll not disrespect him just so I don't start a city or country-wide conflict, but if I think he's a tard, then I will never respect him, unless he starts smartening up and my opinion of him changes. "collectively we have told everyone that this guy is untouchable" Have "we"? I thought he was *your* Made Man. How is it a collective thing? I hope it's clear that I'm not pointing fingers, we seem to have a nice group of Crew Leaders working hard to finish rebuilding what the massive wars of recent past destroyed. I'm just talking in general and contemplating the fact that we have had less than capable Crew Leaders in the past.

"even if you think he is a tard and I an even bigger one, he is due respect"
Can we make a difference between showing respect and having respect? If I think he is a tard, maybe I'll not disrespect him just so I don't start a city or country-wide conflict, but if I think he's a tard, then I will never respect him, unless he starts smartening up and my opinion of him changes.
"collectively we have told everyone that this guy is untouchable" Have "we"? I thought he was *your* Made Man. How is it a collective thing?
I hope it's clear that I'm not pointing fingers, we seem to have a nice group of Crew Leaders working hard to finish rebuilding what the massive wars of recent past destroyed. I'm just talking in general and contemplating the fact that we have had less than capable Crew Leaders in the past.

After hearing his name McDermott turns around and answers to those that have addressed his words he spoke.

Underdog the point of "It's not what you say, its how you say it." is that you may say something one way that will offend everyone however if you say it another way it may not offend a single individual. However, it would still get the point you were making across to everyone without pissing off anyone.

Looking at Underdog McDermott pauses.

Does that make more sense? Take FlyingPig's bloodline for example, they are known for being out spoken and blunt. Take another bloodline like that of Kendra's bloodline. A more humble and less aggressive bloodline however they are known for being able to get the same point across but in a more calm way.

As JudgeDeath finishes speaking McDermott waits after addressing Underdog.

So you're telling me that you wouldn't respect someone if they put a gun to your skull? I find that quite hard to believe. Power and respect do go hand in hand. If I wanted to waltz into a liqour store and knock it over that store owner is going to give me his money and show respect. Why? Because he knows I have the power to make him regret not doing so. Those that don't respect those with power do not live a very long life here.

For example, Godfather Roman comes to me and tells me to do something. I have to do it otherwise I could die because he has the power to do it. Thus you have to respect him if you don't that makes you the opposition. That means unless you do have the power you're screwed not to mention the fact that challenging someone shows them no respect of sorts.

The points could be argued all day. We could play out a million scenarios but they get twisted together over and over again. It's how La Cosa Nostra has always been represented to me.

Sitting back McDermott waits for the response from JudgeDeath.

I like the idea of the "collective will" of the mafia, but I don't think that it exists so purely in reality.  Not everyone agrees on things--to be frank, not everyone likes each other--so there will always be discrepencies when it comes to enforcing the rules.

In general, though, you're right. "We have this group, and we all don’t shoot at or disrespect each other in public because we say so." Made men have earned respect from some mover or shaker in this world of ours, so they get yours.  And you don't spout your mouth off until you've earned the right.

That's not respect my friend, that is fear. You are afraid to die, that's why you do what you are told. Respect denotes both a positive feeling of esteem for a person or other entity (such as a nation or a religion), and also specific actions and conduct representative of that esteem. Respect can be a specific feeling of regard for the actual qualities of the one respected.

If you came up to me and pit a gun to my head, I wouldn't respect you, I'd down right hate you. Sure I'd do what you said, but only because you had a gun to my head. I'll give you another example. I train every day, for 100 days, and rack up 800 kills. I could almost kill anyone here with a single shot. At the same time I buy 500 BGs, so I am virtuallyu indestructable, and I start killing CLs. I take over the world, killing every one who is currently in charge. I start my own crew and take charge. Anyone who gets to the rank of Capo, I shoot and kill. Do you respect me?

You may well respect my power, but you don't respect me, because I'm a complete bastard. Now i'm not saying any of the CLs or GFs are bastards, but like anyone else they have to earn my respect before I'll give it to them. There are 7 or 8 CLs I respect in this world, and that's it. Why? Because I worked with them, and developed close ties to them. Amongst them are Captain Stubbing and Roman, the rest I don't give a flying fuck about, because I don't know them, I don't work with them, and they are not in my circle of friends. If they ask me something, and are polite in doing so, then I follow their request, but only for two reasons. 1) To further inter crew and inter city relations. Business is business after all. 2) Fear. Fear that I will die at their hands or that of my own CL for being an annoying little piss ant who could have taken 2 seconds out of his day to help out another CL.

I don't know you and I don't respect you McDermott, but that doesn't mean I am disrespecting you either. There is simply an absence of respect because I don't know you. That being said, respect is growing because of you are well spoken and are putting your point accross well. I respect the fact that you are a Capo in Jonnie Reese's family, and I respect the fact that he obviously has faith in your abilities, but I don't respect you per se. It is a subtle difference I'm sure you'll agree.

Fear is a form of respect, JudgeDeath.  If you work any dangerous profession, the first thing you learn is that you have to have proper respect for the equipment.

If a tital wave is coming, I'm getting out of the way, because I have respect for its power.  I don't want to hang out with that wave, but I have a hell of a lot of respect for it.

I think that "respect" and "appreciate" are just a couple of those words that bring with them a connotation of positivity that's not necessarily accurate.  Like the word "awesome."  It's usually meant in a positive way, but you could call a bomb blowing up your home town "awesome."  Not because it's "super cool," but because it left you in awe.

I do agree but I also disagree at the same time. Fear would be the major emotion pumping through ones blood if they had a gun to their head. But obviously the person putting that gun to your head has some level of respect amongst those that have the power to be able to put a gun to his head. Otherwise it wouldn't be allowed. I suppose a better example might be that hitter that does have 800 kills. People may not know him but they show respect to him, why? Because he could end all, like you said. Now it maybe fear that drives the respect people will shot towards him but it's respect nonetheless.

After thinking about all that's been said McDermott get's his mind straight.

Now as far as killing everyone in the game with your 500 bgs and 800 kills. I may hate you, but I'd respect you. You could rape and pillage every city, but I'd respect you because you have done something that takes a lot of strategizing and efforts on your part. Here's another thing, should I show hatred or would it best be to respect that individual and then earn their respect. Once you have their respect kill them, rebuild the cities to your preference and how you see fit. They may hate you but I'm sure they'd have a new found respect for you.

Taking a deep breath McDermott rubs his eyes.

From everything that has been discussed and debated on. I think the biggest thing I've learned and noticed so far is that respect and power come in all forms. They go hand in hand but through different channels of feelings and thoughts.

I agree to disagree.

Respect and fear are not the same thing though. I don't respect a Tidal wave, I don't respect its power. I get out of the way because I don't want to get wet or smashed to pieces... well I can't drown, so that's not an issue.

There are CLs here I know could shoot me dead in an instant. If you'd asked me 8 years ago did I respect them, I would have said yes, because to train a gun to the standard to wack a protected consigliere was a tough job. Now its not. I don't respect the Cl with the gun, or his Skill, I just want to go on inhabiting this body. Unless you have demonstrated to me the reason for my respect, you probably don't have it. Again I say, this doesn't mean I am disrespecting you, just that I do not hold you in high esteem.

There seems to be some misunderstanding between the terms respect, disrespect, and an absence or respect. A fine line deliniates them all, but the line is there.

To fear something without respecting it is blind.  The reason that you fear a tidal wave is because you have respect for its power.

I don't fear the tidal wave though... I don't live close enough to the sea side to do so. Having respect for its power and having respect for it are two different things though. We'll go back to one of my ancestors, many years ago. A Guy called The Equalizer. He was RHM for a gal called Mercedes. He was always butting heads with idiots, much like his descendant Chris Vaughn. One guy who's face he was always in was FlyingPig, Anita's RHM. The Equalizer respected his skill as a marksman, but he didn't respect him, in fact he often disrespected him.

Again Sly, I respect your Rank, I don't respect you my friend. I don't disrespect you though. Someone obviously has faith in you to promote you to boss, but I have no idea who you are. I have never spoken to you before, or if I have then you made such a small impression on me that I've forgotten. So tell me why I should respect you? Likewise TheDean. I don't know the man, although my good friuend TSA tells me he's awesome and a 'righteous dude' whatever that is. I don't respect him though as we have never met. I respect his position as GF of NY. I respect his huge quantity of BGs. I respect the fact that he could probably drop a fly at 500 paces with his gun. But again i ask, why should I respect the man himself when I do not know him?

Ok, so now you're talking about having respect for someone's personality, and I don't think that's especially relevant here.  Respect has nothing to do with whether you think they're nice or cool or "righteous" or not.  There are plenty of people who I don't know, maybe even don't like, but I know enough to have the proper respect for them, because I appreciate (meaning "understand the full scope of" not "am grateful for") their power.

That's you my friend, not me. Respect is earned, not given... every cunt and his jack russel says it. I live by it. I have an appreciation for their skill, as you apparently do, but appreciation and respect are not the same. I appreciate a good looking woman, I appreciate the extra whiskey I get in my Irish coffee in the bar I go to. I appreciate the time and effort TheDean has put into training his hand-cannon. But I don't respect it. I don't hold any of it in high esteem. Yes I may think, 'better not piss TheDean off or he might wack me' but its not outta respect for him, and in all honesty its not fear either, its respect for Roman and Captain Stubbing. Why should i make life more difficult for men who have done so much for me and who might even respect me in return?

Ask TheDean does he respect me, he'll say one of two things (or slight variations on them):

JudgeDeath? Who the fuck is he?
JudgeDeath? I respect that he is the greatest pick pocket of our time, but I don't respect him personally.

This is good, because we've rounded back to Sam's original point.  Does a made man deserve respect, regardless of the amount of power he possesses? 

It seems that we both say no, but for different reasons.  We both have different personal definitions and qualifications to "earn" respect, so I was correct in initially saying that there will always be discrepencies.

One thing is for sure, though, if you "disrespect" something or someone with power, whether it be a tidal wave (forgive me for reverting to this analogy) by dancing on the beach  or TheDean by calling him names on the street, the result is the same, regardless of whether you know them personally or not.

I agree 100% when it comes to disrespect.

Biff listens to Mr. Carollo, as the thoughts of his own bloodline journals comes to mind concerning the issue of Respect. He takes off his fedora as he holds it close to his chest, Biff clears his throat as he begins to speak.

People tend to get the the idea of respecting sombody, and treating sombody with respect as the same thing, yet they are not the same at all.

Treating sombody with respect is showing manners and class to the person regardless of the postion inwhich they might have in this thing of ours.

Respecting sombody is knowing what the person is about and how the person lives, speaks, or even know the person would die for what they belive.

Also you can even respect an enemy for how they stand firm to what they belive. But respecting You're boss knowing where they come from their roots they share with you, knowing they would die for you if ever called to do so, as well you would die for them to defend them. Now thats respect!

A topic that has been pondered, discussed, debated and well.. everything under the sun since FullMetal and XoMarioXx both descended back into the abyss happy with the world that they created.

I agree with GaylordFocker's view in that if I feel someone is a tard and isn't deserving of his rank, I won't disrespect him in public, but, until shown otherwise, I won't respect him personally. A "collective mafia" idea would work in this sense, but the reality is that all cities have different qualifications and requirements for an individual to make their button. What's good for one might not be good for another - and that is wherein your views will differ. If ClickiusMonkius promotes people regardless of what they've done (short of breaking the rules, of course), your view of them likely wouldn't be positive because they aren't held to the same standard that you are. Regardless, some degree of respect must be shown in the streets - You can't treat people like garbage and expect to get away with it without taking some flak.


As for power, that's a whole other ball of wax. It's true that certain actions have different consequences depending on who you deal with - and overplaying your hand can prove costly. The morale is, at the end of the day, that if you don't step on too many toes and keep your reservations about someone to yourself - you should go a long way. Save your boss does the same and doesn't overplay their hand.

To be deserving of power you must be deserving of respect. Unfortunately, this isn't an ideal world.

Power doesn't demand respect, but it definitely helps you along the way. Even if I think someone is a terrible Godfather and should never have got there, chances are I'm going to respect something he's done to get there. They might be an idiot, they might be trigger happy, they might be completely unknown. However, you don't get there without a strategy and some big decisions and you've got to respect those.

Power also brings with it an untouchable aura. A sort of charisma that you can't quite pinpoint. When you are in the presence of these people, you have an overwhelming sense of respect.