Somewhere in New York, Jack is enjoying a brief respite from the office. Following a swift drink, he kicks a soap box to the gutter and precariously perches atop it.

"Well this is a bloody stupid place to stand for a speech."

He clears his throat.

How do you measure your success?

Now, I can't very well ask a simple question then open the floor, so I'll give you an example and some considerations to think about.

I've got an ethos I'm living this life by. By way of comparison and context, my mother was a spiritual creature and not afraid to call out shit when she saw it, or stand up for what is right. Her ambition was revolution, change. My grandfather, he sought to induct those fresh off the boat into the world, but he relied on power and strength to put him in a position to do that. He had a long life and a considerable amount of murders on his conscious. 

So where do I sit? How do I measure my own success?

My ethos is such that I want to shake expectations. I want to build a company which wasn't just a name or a tag line. I want to keep my hands clean and welcome death when it comes, satisfied that I've left a sufficient legacy for my children.

To me, achievement is much more than a long life. It's more than the number of notches to my gun, if I decide to carry one at all. There's an entirely different side to this world, untapped or unexposed, which we rarely get to dabble in. The current state of the world allows us to, though, it allows us to explore what we could be doing with our days walking these streets. It's one of the reasons I want to ask this question, as there are many people alive today who I would love to understand what their perception of success is.

How a person dies is probably something I would attribute to the measure of success. Though I speak for myself personally, I expect others to be of the same opinions - we won't really care when we're dead. Our children however will have their perception of the world influenced by the manner of their parents death. The path they walk may well be decided for them, when that day comes.

By the hand of an enemy or competition?

A rogue element?

Someone they considered a friend or ally?

We might also consider physical achievements, our strength, our cunning, our popularity. To me, the numbers side of how many times you attempted a jail break are not as meaningful as some of the more tangible aspects of life. And popularity is subjective, I wouldn't ever expect to be measured by that. 

I hope I've given enough context to warrant the sharing of opinions on this topic, I offer someone else the opportunity to stand on this stupid box, though I strongly recommend we invest in a lectern or something. 

Star squinted for a moment, taking in Jack's words as she thought about the measures of success that she had always been taught. When she had a chance to speak her peace, she hesitated a moment before offering her thoughts. 

"Everybody here has a work ethic though some folks tend to act on their ideals quite a bit more than others. As for me, I've worked pretty hard to get to where I am today and it's taken me a lot of time and effort to be in the position I am in. It's not really easy to do the work that I do and there have been plenty of times where I've taken a pause, wondering if my time and effort mean anything. But here's how I measure my success. Like you, there's more to it than a powerful weapon or a family name, but something deeper and more meaningful at least to me. 

As a younger member, I sought to forge relationships with people across the cities. People I could talk to, get to know. As a leader, I left one amazing family and went on to forge one of my own. I have several silent members but one of the things that I've tried to use is compassion. I come from a line of compassionate people who, through their hardships, have used those experiences to bridge the gap. Sometimes one of your members is going through something that is unique to them and in another family, might not find themselves with someone so understanding. 

I don't believe you have to be a hardass to be respected and sometimes, I think that it's the little concessions that can build a stronger level of respect and loyalty. I also believe in fair and consistent expectations and communication within not only a family but in a city. Know what is expected of you and know what you expect of everyone under you. I have seen good men and women who, upon their deaths, have been grieved across city and crew lines. People truly mourn their deaths while others who are successful braggarts whose funerals are as silent as the grave they will be lowered into. 

My only hope going forward is that, my success won't be measured in money or boxes ticked on a list of how many of this and that I did, but who I was to my core. Was I someone who alienated myself because I had something to prove and pushed everyone out of my way to do it? Or was I someone that learned and grew along the way and each time I learned something new, turned around and passed it down to someone younger than I, passing on my knowledge and like I said, my compassion. Using the necessary evil I do to contrarily cause some good to come to this world. If I can be remembered for that, then to me, that is the only success that matters."

Wild had been standing there and listening to Jack. She knew her opinion would not be popular among many groups but she decided she would forge ahead anyways.

"I feel a little bit differently then you do Sir in regards to popularity and how you die as a measure of success. Perhaps you just won a popularity contest at the time? I don't think a group of individuals that barely know much about you would be the guiding rocks to success.

Success is down to a personal matter. It can't be taken away from you simply because you aren't well liked. Not to mention there are various aspects to success. Let's start with the personal ones, the goals we hold safe to ourselves. The ones we let no one else in on. Perhaps it is to jail break so many times in a city. Or perhaps its something a little harder like earning a certain amount for your leader by a certain date by flipping as much product as you possibly can. In every day goals there is success.

Then we can move into public success. I suppose that you could add in your popularity if you really are the type of person that needs others to validate you. But this area would be for that. Or for things such as becoming a crew leader, speaking out in the streets, changing things up and the like.

Public success is less important to me than the personal success. Why? I just don't feel the need to have people fake a congratulations that they don't mean for me. They wouldn't know me really, only what I allow them to know. So I measure my success privately in my own head or my heart against my own personal goals."

Wild gave a little shrug as if to apologize for not thinking in the same way.

Taking from Wilds comments, that's a very private idea of success, Star, thanks for sharing. Though I'm starting to feel like the private idea of success is probably easier to convince yourself you've achieved, or is safer to hide behind than strive for generally accepted success. Why step outside the comfort zone if you're perfectly happy within it?

Wild, you are correct in that personal achievement is perfectly acceptable and cannot be stripped from you just because you're disliked, though as I've explored with Star, the idea of a challenge behind public success interests me. 

Privately, you can set your goals wherever you want, in some cases it might be easier to convince yourself that you hit them, when that might not be the truth. But to be perceived as having public success feels like that subjective minefield I was talking about earlier. I guess it's an almost political scene, where the policies you preach or popularity events you drive all determine your success. Though we all know how those tend to go.

There's also the caution you've got to take when approaching trying to be "publicly accepted", as it's difficult to go about without making it obvious, which then becomes obnoxious and self righteous.  

Probably making another u-turn here, but maybe all ambition should be driven from a personal perspective, and the impact of that ambition will either be felt positively or negatively by the collective community. If you set personal goals with the intention of positively impacting more than just yourself, it might be the best place to start.

Or, as you mention, just focus on your own success, which you are entirely entitled to.

I guess it would depend on the person. If the person with the private success views has really high standards then there is a probable chance that it is not so easy to convince themselves that they have succeeded.  I suppose for those a little more on the incline for slacker hood that it could be an easy way to write things off and convince yourself that you have done your best.

Not every person is the same however and we need to remember this. For myself, I have incredibly high standards and at this point in time I can honestly say that even with my private success ideals I have not been successful as of yet. I won't get into what success would look like for myself only that I am slowly working towards it. I wouldn't say that I easily convince myself of anything when it comes to this area.

I am not really going to touch on the public side of success because I am not one of those individuals that honestly cares what people think of me.  I find that if you are in the public you need to be more wary of what you say, how you say it and that is just not for me. I don't really find it challenging to tell people what they want to hear. I find it challenging to be real in this community. To say what you truly think.

I can understand the feeling and drive behind personal success in that, sometimes it takes only you to feel as though you are successful. If you have made and met all of your goals and are striving for more, then you can call yourself a success whether people view you as such or not. 

I've always been someone who has seen success as a two fold measure, my own personal assessment, and what others think of me. But again, I am one person who sees the world in my own personal way. While I often see myself as being intrinsically successful, I have struggled with the feeling that it is not enough as measured to other peoples successes. While I understand that it's a personal handicap, it has driven me sometimes to do greater things and other times I have gone too far and burnt myself out to prove myself as a success to someone else. 

I'm sure there are other who have experienced the same thing. Why not be a public face for the people who struggle with the idea of success as a whole? Is one person or crew more successful than another because they show their faces in the streets more often or their members have better stats? Or can success hang, perhaps delicately, on a few key members who do their best to see that everyones needs are met? 

JackMezzo I say success is both personal and public. You measure your own successes as they come and strive to further them, better them, and set new ones. You are the master of your own goals and by your standards you can measure them. However, success is also measured and weighed by public perception. In the streets, in the back alleys, in the coffee houses, people will judge your success by what they see. I admit that there are times where my own personal thoughts or bias have aided or clouded my opinion of a persons success, especially if they are a leader. I'll be the first to admit that I also, sometimes, measure myself against some of the greats and see how I am living up to their successes. Am I doing enough, am I communicating well across the board, am I living up to the expectations of my Godfather? It's then that I am reminded that is is a two fold process and that in order to "measure up," I must put forth the effort to meet and exceed my own goals as well as adhere to the strict guidelines set forth by my leadership. 

He dismounts from Sven and pets his mane, then he smiles at Mister Mezzo

"How does one measure success? How DOES one measure success? Quiet an interesting question. As you have touched upon, it is something I think only we as mobsters can answer for ourselves.

Thank you for bringing this question to the forefront. It's one that, for me at least, has changed over the years. Being a wide eyed youth, of course success was that bold suit. I don't think any young person would disagree with me on that. Over the years though that allure fades for some.  However that still begs the question of how I would define success at my age. I would have to say making new friends and rekindling old friendships for me, right now, is extremely important. If I'm able to accomplish that, I would say I have been successful."

Feeds Sven a carrot before saddling up, and riding off.

Thanks for your comments, Kristoff. Certainly brings into consideration something that I hadn't thought about, however makes perfect sense. With the ever changing faces and dynamics, it's easy to lose track of those you don't keep close. Picking up where those relationships left off can be challenging. 

Appreciate you taking the time to contribute, grazie.

While the discussion is good, the answer is simple and slightly boring; you measure success by the fact whether you reached your goals or not. In that sense whatever Wild has as private goals is most likely measurable. Kristoff also has clear defined goals that will help measure success.

Yours, JackMezzo - while shaking expectations and leaving a sufficient legacy sounds good - are too abstract for goals. For yourself it might be more precise, but your introduction didn’t hint to that. If the goal isn’t clear-cut, you can’t measure it. Anything else drops into categories like appreciation, recognition of efforts or satisfaction. It seems similar, but success is actually measurable and the rest is opinion.

When talking about shaking expectations it’s by default not private anymore. The effect of your efforts have to emerge at some point. If you define what the expectations about the future are and you play a key role in ensuring things turn out different and the relevant target audience recognises all that… than there is your success. Without definition all that follows is just opinion and hearsay.

Because of that, my measurable ambition is fairly simple. Be twice as rich next week as I am today. No one will write my success or failure into the history books, but they are my results. Who knows what the future might hold though.

Killian stroked his mutton-stache in contemplation as he listened to the points being made.

"These are all great points, if I might speak up. These views all show one thing, that success and how you measure that is subjective. We make biased opinions about what success means, not only for ourselves, but for those around us. I might feel as though I am successful, having found a family to work for, however another person might view my 'success' as merely a step to something greater, not something with which to individually celebrate."

Killian pulls out a cigar, cuts the end and lights it. He takes a few puffs before continuing his point. 

"Another example, a mass murderer might hold stock in his kill count, while another person might think that count to be despicable. In this case, success and it measure is subjective."

Tara had listened with interest to the other speakers, and she had spent a long time thinking of her own response. 

"How do I measure my success? By my individual status and the goals I've accomplished, as well as the accomplishments of my crew. By the strength of the relationships that I forge, and the thrill of collaborating with people I respect."

She paused.

"Ultimately, I suppose I'll define my success by the memories that people have of me. If you just see a couple people at my funeral, you'll know I failed."

Tara shrugged and flashed a sardonic grin.

"Although at that point I assume the question will be moot for me."