Kristoff sits on his mount Sven. Who is a reindeer, and not a moose! He trots towards the streets. "Woahh Sven!" Kris pets the side of his mounts neck, and pulls back on the reins. Sven comes to a halt in the middle of a crowded area.

"Hello everyone. I have come to you today on this platform, to put forward a question. One that has divided the people of this world for ages. Can a tiger change it's stripes?  Can someone with a reputation some may deem undesirable, redeem themselves in the eyes of those he/she's Father/mother may have thwarted in a past life?"

He stops for a moment to feed his trusted mount Sven. Kristoff reaches into his saddle, and pulls out a bowl of carrot puree. Of which he feeds to Sven. Once Sven has had his fill, Kristoff addresses the crowd once more.

"Even if their bloodline can change. Do they deserve a chance to do so? Do you think the sins of the father/mother should weigh on the shoulders of their children? I'm positive this isn't the first time these questions have been asked. However the scope of our land has change drastically since the last time I remember these topics coming up. So I'd like to open the floor to discussion. I'm curious, what do you think?"

He hops down from Sven waiting to hear what the masses think. He's sure that people will have passionate and polarizing opinions.

Sawyer scoffs quietly in the crowd, trying not to draw too much attention to himself. He knows it isn't smart to input his own feelings into these public meetings, but this guy is asking a question that is just too obvious. Sawyer spoke up. "Did the kids commit the crime?" He yells out to the man on the platform. "I didn't think so, so why is it that you are even arguing punishing completely innocent people?" This subject bothers Sawyer more than anything else... unfair treatment because of his parents was very common for him to deal with. This guy is just asking for a fight.

Kristoff chuckles. "Of course one wouldn't think kids would be looked down upon. However it does happen. That's one of the reasons I'm curious what most people think. It seems like you made your opinion quite clear, and I appreciate that."

Sawyer shrugs and looks up at the man. "I don't try to make a habit of it..." he mutters. He had forgotten his motto, and he would not let that happen again. Keep quiet, make connections, get jobs done... that was all. He has no reason to be hanging around here, talking about things that could get him killed. Opinions are deadly.

Pats Sawyer_Ford on the back in an attempt to relieve him of some tension that seemed to linger in the air. 

"You seem like someone not in favour for sharing opinions in the public, I can respect that. But you shouldn't trap yourself into getting too paranoid. You were just speaking your thoughts, and I think Kristoff did a very good job in responding. No dramas here mate!" 

I give him a warm smile that reaches my eyes, before turning to Kristoff and nodding in his direction. 

"To the question you posed, I can't say that the actions of their mother/father won't affect them but it will definitely make it harder for them to redeem themselves because of the reputation they hold. With that being said, I say of course they should be given a chance for redemption. I will be even more interested if they not only redeem themselves but also show their potential to prove to the world that they won't let it hinder them from makingprogress!" 

I pause, taking in what I just said before thinking of something else. 

"BUT... theres always a but.. it shall be a reminder to everyone that we should be extra careful of who we mix with. I don't know. Tables can turn these days." 

Sawyer flinches at the pat on the back and quickly turns towards where it came from. "Sharing your opinion is how you die. If you just stay quiet and make quiet connections with whoever can help you move up, you survive. I am not trying to be paranoid, I just have a history."

Sawyer decides to see where else the conversation leads. Carefully, of course. This new person definitely was experienced, and while the first part of their answer made Sawyer feel more like he has a chance, the second part chilled him. Just another reminder that he needs to keep his head down.

"Give 'em a chance. But if the tiger bites you, remember, you chose to try and paint it purple, and you can't then blame the tiger for being what it is. There is always a use for a tiger though. Just don't expect 'em to be a pet turtle."

The simple answer is yes.

The not so simple answer would be asking if there was a point for them to change. Many times it is turned on the blood line to change but the people around them don't ever notice the changes. They seem to hell bent on remembering the past to really see what is in front of them. This is the whole problem with this topic.

A bloodline can change. Will the community allow them to actually change though? Sometimes not so much. Or at least not in the near future.

Now let us look at the people that hold the grudges. The ones that create false rumours that keep things going that have no real need to be remembered at all. For example, Did my mother hurt your feelings? Perhaps you will carry that with you for a long time. And in the telling of the story somewhere along the way the telling gets mended and molded into something that it never was. But people will listen to these things without finding out about a person for themselves.

So in our community do we have the issue of allowing people to move on? I think we do to some degree.

"To the question you posed, I can't say that the actions of their mother/father won't affect them but it will definitely make it harder for them to redeem themselves because of the reputation they hold. With that being said, I say of course they should be given a chance for redemption. I will be even more interested if they not only redeem themselves but also show their potential to prove to the world that they won't let it hinder them from makingprogress!" 

I pause, taking in what I just said before thinking of something else. 

"BUT... theres always a but.. it shall be a reminder to everyone that we should be extra careful of who we mix with. I don't know. Tables can turn these days." 

Vela so you are in more favor of an open yet cautious approach? Caution could easily turn to paranoia could it not? Don't get me wrong, in a way I do agree with you. But it could lead to a slippery slope. One we have seen far too often. Back to a day of lists, rather than checks and balances. Where people were more concerned with "What ifs" than making money, or making this land fit to live in. Perhaps these are just the ramblings of an old man who is out of touch. That's not for me to decide.

"Give 'em a chance. But if the tiger bites you, remember, you chose to try and paint it purple, and you can't then blame the tiger for being what it is. There is always a use for a tiger though. Just don't expect 'em to be a pet turtle."

Adonis I like your analogy. I wholeheartedly agree. Everyone deserves a second chance. That chance may pay off for everyone involved. Especially if the tiger likes that shade of purple.

Offcourse People Can change, and They should be given a chance to. Its is in human Nature to learn from our mistakes. And Thats how we grow as individuelt and as a community.
And if They keep screwing up, Well conformity is what kills the cat...or Tiger in this case. So lets by all means enjoys those that breaks the rules once in a while.

Somnyoneshoe A valid point, I can see where you are coming from. If we don't learn, how can we grow? At what point do they stop getting second, third or forth chances? Do you think there should be a cut off point. Like if they haven't learned by this many chances they are too far gone?

The simple answer is yes.

The not so simple answer would be asking if there was a point for them to change. Many times it is turned on the blood line to change but the people around them don't ever notice the changes. They seem to hell bent on remembering the past to really see what is in front of them. This is the whole problem with this topic.

A bloodline can change. Will the community allow them to actually change though? Sometimes not so much. Or at least not in the near future.

Now let us look at the people that hold the grudges. The ones that create false rumours that keep things going that have no real need to be remembered at all. For example, Did my mother hurt your feelings? Perhaps you will carry that with you for a long time. And in the telling of the story somewhere along the way the telling gets mended and molded into something that it never was. But people will listen to these things without finding out about a person for themselves.

So in our community do we have the issue of allowing people to move on? I think we do to some degree.

Wild I think you hit the nail on the proverbial head. Sometimes grudges do play a part in these things. I think letting the past go and moving on is one of the harder things to do in this line of work. It can be done though, I've seen it for myself. Enemies become friends, friends become enemies. I think holding grudges only looks to hold back everyone involved. It's something many can do if they simply try. It does take effort, but I think it's a step in the right direction for this thing of ours.

I always enjoy this topic, as the more we talk about it the more opportunity there is to settle anyone who is stewing on negative energy, too convinced that they will get penalized for their family history. 

My opinion has always been to create an environment where the 'tigers' in this example don't feel the need to act out, so in short, not having the change their stripes in the first place. Or not have bad stripes, this metaphor has confused me. 

It'll come down to time and patience. Through time, a bloodline which has acted out throughout their entire involvement in this way of life will be pretty heavily tarred with the bad kitty brush. If they have attempted to change this perspective, they only have enough chances as there is patience to tolerate their behavior. 

I will allow, or have allowed, that chance in almost all cases. But it's not a chance I will easily give twice.

Sawyer_Ford, good to see you in the streets, with time and experience you'll come to understand more about how we present and approach situations.

Regarding your comments, there's something to be said about keeping your hand close to your chest. I would be a fool if I revealed each and every detail about my approach to this world, as it can compromise your bloodline in the future and make them predictable. I feel a sense of responsibility and contribution is due though to reveal some general ways of thinking, to support growth and learning in the community. 

Not that my advice is the holy grail, but I'm in a leadership position to support those who might not have the same understanding of this world.

I was standing in the back when the conversation started. Everyone was making good points. I decided to step forward and express my thoughts on this matter .....

"It’s something we have all heard and a lot of us have said at one time or another in our life, but what does it mean, and is there any truth to that meaning? I normally hear it when someone does someone wrong, and it’s not the first time. That’s when we say something like, “I knew this was going to happen. A tiger doesn’t change its stripes!"” 

I paused to light a cigarette and collect my thoughts ....

"This particular saying isn’t wrong. A tiger cannot change its stripes. Every tiger has a unique pattern of stripes. They are like fingerprints and do not change. The offspring of that tiger, though, have a different set of stripes. However, the question is referring to actions. So, while actions people, or their bloodlines, have done can come to define them in the eyes of others around them, the kin are capable of changing their behaviors. But saying that they can’t change is wrong."

I looked at those around me, a few I knew somewhat, the rest by respected reputation alone.

"How many chances? That depends on the individual who assumes said person can not change. I have my own demons I deal with, but do my best to make myself a better person, regardless of what my kin may of did or said, that was them not me. Change is hard, but it does happen. I believe that, in order for things to get better, everyone (the community) has to evolve who they are and become better people as a result no matter their rank, longevity, or standards they set."

Knowing I have probably overstated the obvious, I stepped aside to let others have a say.