Sweeping misleading statements such as this do not make it true.

"Trust" is something that is built outside of the game (IRC)."

I do not use IRC .

Anyone lower then Made is discouraging to those who work their asses off and have earned their way to bold. They may not have the experience as the day old RH or any of the other qualifications but they surely earned the chance. It is not only discouraging, it is demeaning as stated. To be quite frank, it also displays a false sense of trust that was granted to the made man. When a CL experiences a devastating loss of their RH, where is the Consigliere to advice the best made to fill the shoes of the RH? 

A +1 for made and above to be RH

Not that my opinion matters.. Or that I was the greatest CL of all time but...

Every run of CL I have ever had I had a different set of hands each time.. Or almost each time. One particular run I actually had two RHM's.. One from the states and one from Europe, I had damn near 24 hour coverage for Upper Structure that way. Many of the people I had in those crews had never held such a position prior to that. Some of those people are still playing and still getting Hand spots and even CL spots. Just some of my personal experience.

So what's my point? 

1) There is actually a talent pool here if you quit doing this "good ol' boys club" thing and give other people opportunities. 

2) It's gotta be a real son of a bitch to be putting in as much time and effort as someone would a full time job here only to be passed up for someone who died and came back minutes later just because that's your CL's old pal. If that's the message we're sending to people then we shouldn't wonder why they get bored, irritated, and/or quit. If you actually keep people engaged and have them feel like progress is being made (not just levels, ranks, and numbers etc.. but MEANINGFUL progress) they will think you're a much better CL than you actually are, and the game will be that much more enjoyable for them. 

3) I think it was mentioned already but there is no reason you cannot trust more than two people in your entire crew to be hands.. Especially if you're full, with active members, and more than half are MM+. In no other circumstance would you run an organization like that. You have 27 other people (if you're full with actives) at your disposal to bring potentially new talent and ideas.

4) It's amazing to me how the entire game can acknowledge "it's always the same people in the same positions" but yet we do very little in the way of changing it.

5) It's a text based role-playing game... 90% (I would say even more) of what should be going on is communication with each other. Especially among your family. Crazy, I know.. But if you talk to people you can actually build a relationship with them, make them feel like they're contributing, maybe build trust, learn from each other, and the list goes on. The greatest disservice in this game that I have seen over however long I have been playing is there are crews out there that could have a 60 second list full of green.. and not a single word being typed in the crew chat, district chat etc.. and if someone does type something.? They MIGHT get a response from one person.. We're all just clicking our characters away and getting too caught up in our numbers. The whole reason I ever stuck with this game was the human element, right? That's mostly what makes it different. Why don't we give other people that experience? Especially if they've earned it. 

I agree with  DarkLotus   now the game is stable and members are friends....

What? 

I would more likely not have a RH than pick someone I don't fully know or trust for the job. If I had to wait 11 day for that person to be the appropriate rank so be it. If you're going to have someone in such a high position of why would you risk it on someone that you've just met. 

I would more likely not have a RH than pick someone I don't fully know or trust for the job. If I had to wait 11 day for that person to be the appropriate rank so be it. If you're going to have someone in such a high position of why would you risk it on someone that you've just met. 

To give new players room to grow. Someone who is not willing to teach should not be a crew leader.  You learn the best from experience , based off the logic you gave i should never be RHW becsuse i play with new people all the time.  Its not a risk if you know what you are doing. If people were taught correctly then this would not be an issue.  

It's like the catch 22 of college grads. Jobs require you to have job experience and a degree, but no1 is willing to hire you without experience....wtf? 

Some of the lowest aged characters online now...all below 20 days, and all CLs or Hands. If this doesn't highlight a problem, maybe you are part of it. 

https://mafiareturns.com/news/uprofile.php?id=1903281

https://mafiareturns.com/news/uprofile.php?id=1903302

https://mafiareturns.com/news/uprofile.php?id=1920714

https://mafiareturns.com/news/uprofile.php?id=1904809

https://mafiareturns.com/news/uprofile.php?id=1905314

https://mafiareturns.com/news/uprofile.php?id=1903365

https://mafiareturns.com/news/uprofile.php?id=1903379

https://mafiareturns.com/news/uprofile.php?id=1903540

https://mafiareturns.com/news/uprofile.php?id=1903949

https://mafiareturns.com/news/uprofile.php?id=1904173

As someone who, a year ago, was new to the game and given a chance by a very well known leader, I DEFINITELY know the value of being allowed to have a shot as a new player AND I do try to offer such leadership shots to people regardless of how well I know them and training to people who haven't had one yet.  It's kinda been my schtick around here because someone did that for me first.  See a good thing - pass it on, ya know?   

But speaking as a CL who has given hand positions to both people I knew very well and new I barely knew at all, allow me to say:

Choosing hands you don't know outside of the game has it's risks.

For those of you who either haven't been a CL yet or who haven't paid attention or who are very new... Crew Leaders are expected to choose hands they KNOW will act with a level of professionalism and leadership ability that the characters they choose to serve under them NOT ONLY can be respectful on the streets but who also obey the rules of the game as well. 

Should your hands do something to break the rules of the game (act inappropriately, create dupe accounts etc) then not only will they suffer the consequences (DD or Jail) but the other hand and crew leader usually does time in jail as well.

So to be clear:

Crew Leaders who pick poor hands lose time in game & leave their crews without leadership for days and weeks at a time.

Because of this, players who become crew leaders must weigh the risk of their choices carefully. 

Even someone who is friendly, communicative, and active for weeks in the game can turn out to have a dupe account that no one knew about. 

Sometimes friendly and active players have bad days and lose their shit in IRC, wear inappropriate suits, say stupid stuff in their profiles, or make bad choices in general which lead to punishment.  

I'm not saying people with experience in leadership never do these things (they do!) but If you have to roll the dice on someone you KNOW has been a successful leader in the past or someone you don't know all that well... which are you PROBABLY going to pick when the price for choosing wrong is so high?

To avoid hurting themselves and their crew, people tend to pick folks they know have done it successfully before.

SUGGESTIONS ON HOW TO MAKE SURE YOU GET A SHOT

I hate coming into a thread and saying "this is why you're wrong" or "no" and not offering a way to a "yes."  Especially on something this big.  People who are new to the game bring a wealth of insight and cool ideas and DEFINITELY, should get a shot to show those off and the fears of CLs who've been hurt in the past by failures of those they trust shouldn't prevent that from happening.  But how?

1. Make friends and work with people BEFORE they get to power.  Example... if you know a player is a person who has seen CL before and is likely to do so again... start talking with (or roleplaying with) that person BEFORE they have the cookie you want.  
    
2. Get to know them outside the game if they are open to it.  What's your name?  What's your job?  Got kids?  Got school?  What country are you from?  Like sports?  Video games?  Talk to them like any person you want to know you better and not just about MR.  Build a trust so when they get their shot again (if it's before you) you know if you want to work for them and they know if they want a chance to work with you!  This hustle, when it comes to leadership is more important than the hustle of clicking buttons and sending up cash.
    
3. Don't underestimate the importance of the in-game hustle.  As a former CL, I can say I normally reward those players who I know are leveling a gun hardcore, who are kicking up $1,000,000 a day, or stay in the top 15 of the VIP consistantly.  I offer them hand positions because I know they understand some aspect of the game and ideally can teach that to others... but they can also make sure the crew has what it needs to survive (fire power, money, or connections to others and entertainment for the crew.)
    
4. Don't get pushy.  When your CL says "I don't got anything for you to do" this doesn't mean mobmail them daily asking "what can I do" and get offended when they have nothing... start doing stuff on your own.  Let them see you organizing your fellow crew members for a drug party or RP.  Let them see you teaching someone about the game.  Leadership in this game is a lot about who you know and who knows you (as it is in the mafia) but it's also about who does shit without being told to... many people are going to grab up a hardworker over an old standby who is inactive 50% of the time.  Not everyone mind you... but quite a few of us.
    
5. Professionalism - don't sit around trolling for weeks and then wonder why no one wants to give you a shot when suddenly you decide to play a serious character.  If you played at being the fool for months, it might take just as long to get anyone to think of you as anything but.  If you went rogue on a character you might need to play five without roguing before anyone will trust that you won't rogue.  Is that fair?  No.  But that's how trust works.
    
6. Don't get offended.  This is the hardest one.  You're going to be passed over.  Kicking up a Million a Day and being in the top 15 on the VIP board doesn't automatically unlock the glass ceiling... this gets you noticed.  The connection to people on the otherside of the glass is something you need to build up and if you're feeling bitter and salty at being passed over... they probably aren't going to pick someone who has been hateful towards them in the past, at least not right away. 
    
7. You're going to be disliked.  No one in this game gets to the top without someone hating them eventually.  Just put that in stone and save it by your bedside to save you stress.  Don't panic if you have someone who has become obsessed with sending you anonymous credits, hit listing you, talking trash about you every time you appear in lounge or putting vague slams about you in their profile - take this as proof that you've stood for something and while that person might not like you... someone else surely does.
    
8. Don't Give Up - some folks have been here years (yes I said years) and still haven't seen Godfather... some haven't seen CL.  Most get a shot at hand eventually but the other two are rarer titles and are harder to get folks to let you into the positions of and since other players are the gatekeepers on these spots... you need to win them over.  There's no two ways about that.

I wish everyone here who wants to be in leadership the best of luck and welcome you to come chat with me.  I'm not a CL now, but who knows maybe down the road I will be again and I'm definitely open to getting to know people better and giving folks their first shot!

Someone pointed out to me that I didn't remark on 0-day-old hands.  

So here are my thoughts...

I see no issue with officially putting a day requirement on how old someone should be to be a hand so +1 to the idea of a minimum age for someone to be a hand.

I also would say that in familial mafia I'm pretty sure nepotism is a thing (giving titles and position to someone based on who their family is) so it's not all that weird to see it here too.  

BUT I wouldn't be opposed to seeing a minimum of reaching wise guy rank in order to be a hand.  Most CLs can stand to go a few days without a hand if they really had no better options.  AND let's face it, most people can do the work of a hand before they get into that spot officially so the waiting period won't kill anyone really and if it makes folks happy... what's the harm?  Doesn't change the nepotism thing, but maybe it will open up a little time for someone (a newer player) to get themselves noticed as a good option too?

Arthur_Morgan, what part of 20 days in this world doesn't scream experienced to you exactly? It's not exactly a week old is it? Not to mention you included people who were literally about to turn 20 days old. 

I'd personally rather someone I knew as a hand and they were 2 days old than someone I didn't know would be able to handle the role but be 30 days old just to save face. If someone can do the job, why do they have to be a specific age?

I will agree that I think it should go back to the way it was with the age requirement, 20 days definitely being way over what the requirement was anyhow. Maybe just to give someone something to work towards and new people a chance. 

As long as it's thought about and they trust the person, not completely sure what the issue is.

Lust, from an IC perspective, I should not be fit to be a hand. For two main reasons: Age (which equates to experience from a character perspective), and seniority (mobsters outranking you being passed over). Lets also not forget that most of that list were put in place while their age was still under 10 days old. But yes, I'm aware that I'm approximately the same age as these guys/gals. Doesn't make or break my stance.

From an OOC perspective, of course I'd rather have a well-known name or a "real" friend working with me. No surprises w/ poor decision making or losing a temper. I know we can work together and move forward as a unified front. But for the sake of growing new talent within the MR community, this type of hand/CL selection works against our longevity I think. 

My main points are this:

1) CLs/GFs are promoting people to MM, Capo, Boss, Consig, Don...and then hiring a Gangster to be a hand. Or authing a min-time MM. This shows me that there's no real meaning behind the rank for much of the game. Might as well let them sit as Wise Guys with 40 units if they're going to be treated like Wise Guys.

2) Young (relatively) people being put in power positions. Their ancestors forged relationships and proved themselves on the job, which allows them to get the nod over the people I reference in point 1. It's no fault of the new hands. They're simply a beneficiary of the ducked up ways our society and relationships in IRC have become more important than IC relationships.

How do we fix this?

I think it takes a conscious effort of the recognizable names supporting "new" hand selections. Take Ray_Kroc (I think thats right) for example. It was his first character and he was made a LHM. That's a great testament to his CL and his GF for allowing that appointment. It also speaks about the veterans inside that crew that didn't bitch and complain. Instead, he got praise for filling his role so well. That's how we build talent and move forward. Big names being unselfish, allowing someone else to gain valuable experience. 

LHM is a perfect spot for that experience to come. Maybe even rotate that LHM to the RH position for periods of time.