I'll spare you all the part where I grab a soap box and you gather around. Straight to the point; where does loyalty end? Wasn't long ago that people would preach loyalty to your own family before friends; hell I know my ancestors signed crew rules that stated that exactly word for word. Loyalty to your family came first before all else. Then one day these 'underground groups' began to surface and form as they worked together to control the nation. It's a natural occurrence as those at the top cling on for dear life. Problem was when the enable happened and they met their end, these groups often times continued to band together their kin to rise to the top once again. Even when a member of one of these groups hasn't done fuck all they still seem to be rewarded more handsomely than they earned or deserved.

Now at this point if any of you are sitting there thinking this is aimed at you; don't flatter yourself. Though I will say if the shoe fits lace the bitch up and wear it.

Here's another thing, it isn't just a group collaborating and conspiring on the journey to the top, but it's even players that just happened to really enjoy a certain crew leader still have loyalty to the line over whoever their current leader is. Sometimes it leads to sabotaging your current crew or straight up transferring to the leader you enjoyed prior. You'll say whatever excuse it is but really what your saying is 'my line is loyal to that line no matter what for the time being.'

Is this right? Should this be allowed? Can this be stopped? Should this even be stopped?

What's your thoughts as I'm not so blind or ignorant enough to think this will ever fully change, but what changed that it's so widely accepted now? Whatever did happen to loyalty to your leader, every life being a fresh start, with fresh loyalties, and fresh relationships. Of course you'll still keep in contact with your parent's friends and their kin as your bloodlines are/were close, but should those bloodlines and bonds come before your oath and duty?

I'm interested in hearing your thoughts so please stand up and voice your opinion.

Thank you for coming out here, and adding your piece Lynchy. I personally found what you had to say very insightful, and you definitely hit the nail on the head. We are a small community and that is bound to happen. It's a very catch twenty-two topic as it's understandable, and I believe many of us are guilty of it somewhere in our line's history. Though should our kin's be starting a fresh every time. Does that enhance this thing of ours? I definitely feel it keeps it interesting, but also having to factor in who is still possibly loyal to who can always keep one on their toes.

Also I a hundred percent agree that over time these loyalties can cause conflict for even the one holding them as over time lines that were once close will come toe to toe with each other or have a falling out. Throwing those loyal to each in the middle, causing a divide. This life never does fail to find ways of surprising me.

I appreciate you coming out here, and I look forward to hearing more people give their thoughts on the matter.

It is undoubtedly quite a complex topic.

Let me start by saying, that it is not good at all, that there are very tightly knight groups who control the nation and make sure to get rid of everyone who does not fit their group. It is, in fact, something that my mother was never a fan of and despised. Friends will stick with you even if you reward those who are not part of a super close group as they know, that you still have the best intention in mind for them.

However, I also see the other side. If someone´s family treated you well and had the worst experienced with others than it would be understandable to follow those who did whatever they did to get the loyalty. Is it a good thing? Most likely not, but I think that it is normal to want to repay the line that treated you well, as well as to try to stick around those who made you feel human and valued you, rather than treat you like a piece of chess.

In my simple way let me say this since the dawn of time small groups have always band together towards a common goal.  So; no it wont stop.  Every group that has ever form, formed under common goals.  The things that they hated and they believed it could be down better was the rallying cry.  Parties form and parties fall all the time.  The United States started as an British colony and broke away why because of taxation?  No because of greed?  No because they could?  no one really knows you see because History is told by the victorious and yet the U.S and England have been allies ever since.  Some people demand loyalty it is needed to control the masses and keep support.  A dictator power is only as strong as his followers are willing to go.  Without the support structure the building crumbles and this thing of ours comes crashing down.  

Frank lit a cigarette the exhaled.

I normally refuse to speak out like this but hell I love this kinda stuff.  Who's loyal who's not, why be loyal and such but I'll settle for honesty any day and I'm only being honest so if you hate what I'm preaching then stop listening now.  

I also recall my father telling me that his father fathers all pledge a oath yet we know that loyalties only go so far. You favor someone over another and your pal gets made and plots a hit on you for being disloyal to him.  Then your pals plot against them and the whole thing continues.  You know what I call that?  Stupid yet that's the way of this world that we live in.  

To build loyalty you need honesty.  Telling people what they are willing to do and not do for them upfront gives that potential friend an honest choice.  Then they tend to be a little more understanding and they stick it out for a bit.  The paranoid those are the single minded they want and give very little.  They promise the world to get there and deliver a little and claim you owe.  That breeds anger and anger leads to hate and hate leads to war.

Frank takes another puff and exhales slowly.  

So where does loyalty end you ask? I say most times it never started it should be a two wat street traffic flowing both ways.  That street I say is call honesty.  Cruelty is around the corner and war is up the street if your looking for where loyalty lives.  That's my f'n two cents.  

Frank tips his hat and walks away.

I realise that this has little to do with the original discussion but as someone who always opts for a completely fresh start with no previous acquaintances every time he is reborn I can not comment on conflicts between old alliances and new ones. As someone who holds no power, I can not speak to the politics behind the things people do to retain control either. But as someone currently in the 6th city this run, having interacted with various kinds of people, I feel I can offer an outside perspective, albeit a flawed one, on the nature of loyalty itself.

It is my humble opinion that loyalty ends when greed overwhelms our sense of obligation. I firmly believe that greed or ambition if you want to argue semantics, is a double-edged sword, both for the individual and the crew or city that fosters them. On the one hand, you can count on an ambitious person to want to rise up the ranks and therefore do immense good for the family, but on the other, you also have to be wary of their appetite growing to a size you can not sustain.

How the leader responds to the ambitious underling has a significant impact on the future. If two-way communication has existed for a considerable duration, an amicable resolution is possible. But more often than not, we find the underling restricted and alienated out of fear or paranoia as someone before me suggested. Even in the best of scenarios, where everyone has been relatively pleasant if an ambitious person sees an opportunity to achieve something they value, something their own family or city is unable to or unwilling to offer, what should they do? Everyone has to make that decision themselves. But the leader who has groomed the individual should not be surprised if the ambitious individual follows the ambitious route.

I will make this as short and sweet as possible. When you join a family, you are pledging yourself to their rules. Their customs. So when you are looking at who you owe loyalty to its to the person housing you. I would go so far as to say not even to the city GF do you owe your loyalty to. It should be the family you are in, the one helping you grow.

If you toss this away so easily based on kin friendships well you probably aren't worth a whole hell of a lot.

Short Sweet to the point it comes down to bitterness...

After years of watching your ancestors be slaughtered and leaving revenge to those who survived each massacre eventually you become bitter and wish to exact revenge yourself in the name of those before you.

Of course the friends and family of your dead kin are  now divided into other groups this means teaming up with ppl who  are outside of your direct family which can go against the orders of those you are now associated with.

But after being so bitter screw them right? risk it all for that 5 minutes of satisfaction...

How many times have we seen younger generations silently growing just to throw away their lives in ablaze of "glory" because they just couldn't let go of the pain felt from previous slaughters.

I know i sound like ive strayed a bit but it comes down to this Loyalty is only guaranteed if that new recruit is able to focus on growth instead of revenge.

As FayeKinnett said Loyalty should be to your new family, the ppl who raised you, the ppl who helped u earn everything when you had nothing make your ancestors proud through your achievements not through some half assed slaughter that just breeds more bitterness and thirst for blood.

Of course a loyalty in a fimilyis the most important in agam elike this.

Can also understand when old friends popping up with new names and are in other crews that they could be loyal to each other but never than less a crew your in is the most importan loyalty you should have, no doubt about that!

Nene heard of an interesting discussion being held in the streets between some mobsters, and she thought that she should chime in for once. She stood on the side, listening to everyone's points and was nodding to the sound of their voices. A lot of good points were being raised. 

She introduced herself when everyone was finally done speaking and waved to everybody, knowing that no one knew her well enough to even know her name. 

Hi! I'm Nene...

And it's true about what Lynchy said, me thinks. We are a small community... Hard not to stick closely to friends or to those we've known for a long time. It happens alot. You'll go to whoever you're comfortable with.

However, I truly believe that an ancestor's kin should seek out a new family every time. From the moment you choose your crew, your loyalty should be with your crew leader and no one else. Although I can understand both ends of the spectrum. One's kin will most likely go back to the person who housed their parent, maybe because they had such a good time there.

It's not wrong to do so. But I wish more light could be shed on finding new loyalties and friendships.