It is quite incredible how badly this game treats each other.
The wipe for Chicago is being explained by imminent treats in Chicago and the leadership never having acted. How come other uppers did not know about it? How come Philadelphia who had about 80% of the last rogues emerge remain on top and are being held up by the man going off the name Joe_Ligambi and being helped by him? To remain their power?

If it is just a game as so many of you explain, why are you scared to death to go as far and ruin the experience for all the rest to survive ages, in a game that revolves around dying someday? It is either your way or highway when it comes to the game. If someone is not part of your super exclusive group, they merely get wiped. It happened many times, and I hope some of you will at least rub your heads and wonder where the line is being drawn. As I´m sure some people in Philadelphia are everything else but happy by how the game is being run and the decisions were done.

On the other hand:
I have been in the game for a rather short time but can safely say, that I made the experience good for enough people. It took the time to reach them, always extend a hand and whatever when needed. 

I have given my thoughts, and I´m just not done for this game honestly. I want to help people, make them smile, allow equality between cities and have fair wars and fair power balances instead running everything through a terror regime and yes even my great-grandmother was in one of the very highest positions anyone in this game could have ever gotten in, but she was still very lenient and allowed people to change cities if it means they are happy.

My mother and great-grandmother failed their crews twice now. Being a crew leader is the only thing that made them truly happy, to watch the people grow. Help new people set into the game and motivate them. Reach out to whoever they could and ask if everything is fine.

In the end they should have never been one and everything would have maybe been better for all the people under her.

Uncle Joe stops and thinks to himself. What is this game this person speaks of. The only games Uncle Joe knew of were childish and for children. This was cosa nostra.

I want to help people, make them smile, allow equality between cities and have fair wars and fair power balances instead running everything through a terror regime

This line of reasoning continues to blow my mind. I'm sorry that you were killed and that you're not taking it well. We've all been there, and I do feel for you; but this is mafiareturns, not holdhandsreturns. The entire ecosystem cannot be boiled down to helping people and making them smile all the while sharing power balance. I think neopets is still accepting registrations if that's what you're after.

Furthermore, how exactly do you expect to ensure a "fair war" what is a fair war? The side with the biggest boom-boom sticks annihilates the other. That's how it works. Yesterday it was you and yours, eventually it will be myself and mine. Multi-day wars can now be avoided with appropriate planning and execution; in what world is that opportunity not going to be taken?

I truly hope this resonates with you, as I fear you will not have much fun until this game is in a state that it will likely never be in.

you complaining about a mafia game where people act like the real mafia is somewhat funny. <clicky

Due to how you wrote the thread led, it was moved to the OOC forum. Now I get to speak as myself and not worry about my green name and allegiance in game. 

Your first point is about rogues and where they originate. Regardless of who gets erased due to a Rogue originating from there, wiping the originating city is wrong. CLs can't possibly know everyone in their crew. I don't care if it's PH, SL, NO, CH, DT or NY...if THAT becomes a default response for wiping a city, it's a piss-poor excuse. And I much prefer a blunt answer like: because we can. So for you to bring up the rogue origination rate and claim PH produces the most (I'd like to see your math on that, btw) it's a moot point as far as I see it. Besides, the monetary penalties/grievance money that gets paid out isn't chump change. Taking out a Protected Capo every 3 weeks, but also paying millions in reparations isn't exactly the way to crumble the foundation of existing cities. 

You speak of several wipes. "they merely get wiped. It happened many times"  - how many times have you seen it on your TWO characters? I'm not flaming you here, but the longer you play the game the more you'll realize that alliances, back-stabbing and death are all part of the fun/journey. This game is inherently violent. 

Mutual respect is possible between cities, depending on who holds bold positions. Being a kind, caring and "lenient" leader does not mean that that is the correct way to do business in MR. Leniency can be viewed as a sign of weakness. 

To your credit, the social aspect is (IMO) the most important aspect of this game. And the fact that you value your relationships with the players in game is exactly what makes this community so great. That being said, if you want to continue playing, you have to find a way to differentiate OOC relationships (that can also very well be in-character) and in character game play (to include city removal). Everyone dies. You either attack first, or wait around long enough to be attacked. Fact. 

I hope you come back. But remember what this game is about. How boring are the PvE servers on a game like Rust? T

Remember, it's just business. 

I think we've all died to bull honkey innit, we just either take a break if we've played for several months or make a new character - just apart of the game, not that fun what happened to CH but i bet planning for PH was pretty thrilling.

I think sometimes people can mistake a desire to see players treat each other with respect, for not wanting wars or conflict.  I often wave the community banner and get accused of wanting 'tea parties' and 'hand-holding' but in truth - I think we can shoot each other in the faces without rubbing salt in wounds after and being assholes to each other.  There is a big difference between want respect in the community and not wanting war.  ;)  

It's important to realize (as has been stated by others above) that conflict is going to happen and the people who are victims of the violence seldom feel they were treated 'fairly' when it's over.  Not always ... but seldom.  

Truth:  If you want to be loyal to your superiors, you're eventually going to shoot at characters played by people who you like.  If you want to be a good leader, you're probably going to kill someone's character that is a part of your own for a reason that they don't think is a good one.  And unless you click the suicide button, you will almost always die in a way that will shock you.  

Let's be blunt, MR isn't set up for the kind of wars where one side calls the other out onto a field of battle.  Two noble foes line up and face each other and begin firing at each other all at the same time - it doesn't happen.  What passes for war here, pretty much amounts to planning, organizing, and carrying executions as quietly as possible. 

No one knows one side has a beef with the other until they're dead not because the aggressor is without good reasons ... but simply because if you told anyone it was coming, they'd shoot first.  As someone said above, you either shoot first or wait to be shot.  So... secrecy is key in MR 'wars.' 

You can't really go to another GF and say "Hey dude we don't trust that asshat you got in your crew because he talks some serious shit in the streets or lounge - or because my buddy tells me that he said (insert shit or logs here)"  ... because of the need for secrecy.  Even discussing your concern tips your hand.  The minute you say you have concerns about people in another city, the GF you're talking to HAS to wonder "Is their fear enough to make them hit us?"

Because you don't want to tip your hand or give the other side the opportunity to strike first... diplomacy really doesn't happen unless two Godfathers are super tight.  And if they aren't tight that's where you get reasons for wars like "they weren't talking to us much" ... because if one CL or Godfather feels they aren't tight with another, there's always room to wonder "are they planning on hitting us first."

Because of the need to stay 'tight' and not allow room for paranoia to grow ... existing and repeat godfathers learn to befriend and stay close with other Godfathers.  This, ideally, allows them to have longevity in the game... but, let's face it, from the outside it creates an image of a monopoly of the game.  It looks like a giant clique is running the game all the time. 

But before you let that bother you... I urge you to consider Detroit and Philly hitting Chicago back at Christmas time.  That was only a few months ago.  Despite outside appearances, everyone plays their own game for their own reasons to the best of their ability and even the most ardently loyal friends turn guns on each other and even people who hate each other oocly have worked together (or at least refrained from shooting one another) for their common goals.  THAT is the name of this game.  And while it might not feel fair today, if you're on the losing end, MR has a weird sense of karma and every dog has their day if you wait long enough.  

If you ever wanna chat, feel free to reach out.  I hope you don't let the way this one thing played out chase you away from the game for good!

You raise a good point on the interactions in here. 

You come across a lot of people that do not see eye to eye and they usually come with the worst attitudes. Now when people don't always know your line right off the top of the hat, they can be a bit nicer, but as soon as they find out they can be complete dicks. Yet we are told we need to "respect" these people because they are at the top.

A long time ago I decided that I would not sit back and be shit on by people who were complete asshats. And I haven't since. Now people want to talk about how negative I am towards them and how it is all my fault but the honest truth is, they made me that way. I reflect back to people the shit they give me. Don't like me? Awesome. I won't like you much either.  Perhaps if more people stopped taking the bullshit from the top that gets passed down the top would realize what they act like and change. Because until people get tired of the way we treat each other it is going to stick.

This is the world in which we live. It's a doggie dog world and we are all wearing milk bone underwear.

Its truly weird wars lately, havent played more than 2½ year but lately it has been massacres that I never seen before. So no surprise many are thoughtfull over this.

1) There were massacres in the past. Any family, given some time and a lot of hard work put in, can develop a squad of shooters that can wave crews. I've been around 16+ years now and, trust me, it happened back then too.

2) Everyone looks for "reasons" they're taken down. Play long enough and you'll realize that "reasons" are just an excuse to get ahead. This is a game and you play games to win. So who cares what "reasons" were given? The truth is that you weren't in well enough with those powerful enough to take you out. Leading is about playing the right kind of politics too.

3) Not everyone gets a chance to lead. You got to twice. Your fall was inevitable...just like every leader in the history of this world. To say you "failed your crew" is pretty dramatic and to be honest, people simply move on. Perhaps you failed yourself and didn't get to accomplish whatever it is you set out for, but that's life. A worthy leader would pick themselves up, learn from the past and try again, not complain and/or blame others for their own failures. 

4) THIS ISN'T A SOCIAL CLUB!!! Every single time a war/takedown happens, someone complains about "fairness" or "balance" or whatever...

Did you expect to live forever? Do you expect nobody to ever kill anyone on here? What then? Only you and a few others get to lead forever? 

A LOT of people bust their butts on this game and get completely overlooked because they're not in the right circles. Where's the "fairness" in that? Even though they put hours in, grinding it out, they have to sit under some leader that expects to live forever and priortizes socializing over grinding it out themselves. If you were/had been a great leader, you'd have spent more time developing your gun/hitsquad/crew/allies and setting yourself up to move up the ladders in this world.

SUMMARY: This thread, to me, doesn't show leadership qualities. A true leader would be connecting with their fallen, right now, and working with them to bounce back instead of quitting. This thread reeks of self-centeredness and an expectation that you are/were owed something by others around here. Play/don't play...that's (obviously) up to you...but know that A LOT of people bust their butts around here. Either do it better than they do or move on. Maybe this life was never for you and you weren't made to lead anyone. That's okay.

All that said, I don't mean to come across as harsh. I've learned all these things, in my time here, myself. I've been killed. I've been bitter. I've quit. I've come back. It happens. That said: Best of luck to you in whatever you choose to do.

Clank wrote:

Isabella half the things you said does not happen on MR has happened at one point. Please from a player who post and is involved in the teachings of new players , for the love of god its hurting new players when u act as if you have the answers in matters witch you hold no blood in.

I'm sure some of the things I said don't happen, have occurred at some point.  MR has been around for a very long time.  It would be impossible for me to speak to the whole history of MR. 

In fairness to your point, it's true that I can only speak to what I've seen in the two years I've been here - so perhaps it would have been truer for me to have said, "In my two years here at MR - I haven't seen (insert thing here.)"  

I wrote what I thought to be true based on my time and experiences here just like everyone else.  Just like you.  And regardless of how you feel about the nature of my experiences, my time in this game and point of view isn't any less valid than yours.  It's just different. 

Clank wrote:

You are taking away there opportunity to have real answers, to really understand other aspects of the game.

I disagree.  Nothing prevents you and others from joining a thread and sharing your own experiences and points of view.  

Clank wrote:

Take a second to realize you have only experienced a flourishing account in the arms of friends.

This is an opinion and while I could debate it, that would take us away from the point of this thread.  For now, I'll simply say that I also disagree with you on this matter as well.

I disagree.  Nothing prevents you and others from joining a thread and sharing your own experiences and points of view.  

I dont mean in threads. Most new players tend to float around the same group that one of the members has taught them from.  When you tell ppl this is right and that is wrong your are stripping them at that moment of there own perception,  I love you help out new players, what is wrong is telling them  things that are "bad to do" in the community.  That , like you have just told me is an opinion of yours.

This is an opinion and while I could debate it, that would take us away from the point of this thread.  For now, I'll simply say that I also disagree with you on this matter as well.

Have you flourished in a time when you were unwelcome is what im saying. Yes friends are there to piggy back off of sure. But i have seen people who are welcomed with open arms give there opinion on things that dont apply to them or things they never had to experience. Thats an outsiders point of view, speaking for people whom they may not even know.  

Honestly and i mean this with the utmost respect if you play MR and your skill set strictly remains in the posting on the streets and the educating of new players , i cannot give your opinion on war or purging the proper acknowledgment i would another player who has experienced the same things as me. Not taking away from what those players do just as we shooters know opinions are second during war, the opinions of people who dont actively involve themselves in the aggro side of the game hold no value if you resume does not back up. This last part was to the community not you Isabella. 

Skill was everything on Mafia but look at some of the people who are CLs currently, this game has nothing to do with skill anymore. So in hind sight its just a popularity contest, safety protocol.  Its about who you know not what you can do anymore. 

Because if it were let it not be confused the skill gap between the top tier and those not aware of how to fight in this game is insane and half of you whom think you know how to maintain a war or a rogue have no idea the work done behind it.  HandsomeRob used to say going rogue is easy. Yet when something is wrong in the community its the same group of ppl the rogues come from. If its so easy why dont we see capped rogues all the time,  I truly believe most of you are full of shit when it comes to the rogue or war talk. This was not aimed at anyone just more rant talk, feel free to engage w me. 

Hard Knocks

Get a group of people together you trust and go on a run together. Hennything is possible.