I honestly wanna know why people think some form of this idea shouldn't be put to use. Let's not bullshit each other and bring up "real life" either. It's an unrealistic idea being brought in to counter unrealistic "war" results.

So far I've read

1. It's not realistic (bullshit)

2. I don't want my city to get hurt by GOING TO WAR with another city (BULLSHIT)

Wars don't end in a day and losses are ALWAYS(A...L...W...A...Y...S) felt on both sides of the field. People are afraid...I get it...but say that...don't bring up reality in defense.

Why?

Sleep protecting you? That's just ludicrous. We may be men of honour, but you can sure as hell guarentee that if I have to shoot you, I'd rather do it when you are 'sleeping' than when you are up walking around. Going to bed should be no guarentee of safety.

As for safe houses... Why would a CL want to put members of their family during a time of war out of harms way? Every member should be shooting to kill, or shooting to pro. If a member that you are relying on to help win the war is off sick, on holiday, at work, well that's just tough shit. Kudos to the attackers for attacking when your best hitters are off line, that's just good planning. The only times I can see safe houses working are 1) You hate your CL and he's under attack during a war, in which case you go into hiding so that he dies and you don't or 2) A particular member of a crew is under attack by persons unknown, so until it is resolved your CL puts that person into hiding until its resolved.

However, I still don't feel that its a necessity for either of these to be impliamented.
Reply by: Quoth_the_Raven at Dec 02, '10 14:37

I didn't say I was scared or that it was unrealistic...

Might I ask why you would rather shoot someone sleeping then awake? For fear of possible retaliation should something go wrong?

Again, why would you wanna get shot? I can understand why it's done...I just cant understand why the idea was being shot down with "real life" as a point against it. The event itself is unrealistic...so that shouldn't be called into question by anyone on either side of the line.

I would love for something to be done to make wars...war. There's no passion or fear in an annihilation.....these so called wars are not wars. They're unrealistic in damn near every way imaginable...I'm surprised we don't ride dragons into battle while shooting a laser cannon. Although maybe we do...about the only way you could hit someone with 200++++ bodyguards.

A sniper rifle from a roof top 200 yards away? A bomb under their car? The gun you recieve is only symbolic, left deliberately vague so that you can have or use whatever weapon fits your character.

As for shooting someone with 200+++++ BGs being impossible, having 200+++++ BGs in the first place would be pretty impossible, you'd never get into a resturant, or a car, or a business. If you made a street speech, no one would hear as you'd be surrounded by your own men. Again its symbolic, I don't choose to think of it as 200+ BGs, I choose to think of it as your relative safety through protection. Doesn't matter how good that safety is though, you always run the risk of dying, that's why CLs constantly spend money buying more BGS.

I have no preference when it comes to shooting. Whether you are asleep or awake, it makes no difference to me, either way you are dead or proed, the only advantage to doing it whulst you are sleeping is that if I miss, I might get another chance before you are back on line, purely tactics. My issue is with safe houses. Why would a CL put his most valuable members during a time of war in a safe house when he needs them on the front line? So we take an example. CL A is attacked an places his 6 best hitters in a safe house. CL A fights the good fight but gets his ass whooped because his best hitters are safe and sound in an undisclosed location. Rol on 2 hours, and the 6 hitters return to the streets, no CL, no family, and free targets for all. Think they will turn the tide of the war?

Death and dying is a core principal of this game. Everytime you log in, you know you might see the 'You are Dead' screen whether through war, Rogues, random wackers, or your CL wackbacking and leaving you unsponsored. If you can't accept that today might be your characters last day, then you need to go and play Mafia Wars on Facebook.

The whole of New Orleans was reciently taken apart whilst its crews 'slept'. As a fallen CL am I bitter, hell no, its the nature of the game. Do I feel that if I could have sent some of my guys to a safehouse it would have worked out any differently? Hell no again. The entire upper structure and top hitters in NO where all shot at 7am, destroying any chance of the city fighting back.

The only marginal possiblity of change I see working here is a slight increase in Def for being asleep, and I mean slight, not even a BGs worth, to represent that you are on familiar ground and your attacker is not. This is the Mafia, not Duelling. If I have to I will blow your whole house up along with you in order to see you dead, even if I kill 100 innocient bystanders in the process. I already outlined the opnly two possibilities I see Safe houses working, and if they were impliamented then it should be hellishly expensive to use one, like hiring a private jet to fly you somewhere before your 2 hours are up.

The gun is a gun....simply because that's what you're clearly given. Now what type of gun is solely up to the person getting it...there's no C4 or bazzoka classified under "gun".

It's made clear that the BGs are indeed bodies and not just an increase in protection. Which is ridiculous but it's where we stand. There's plenty of ways to discuss fixing that but it's another topic. The fact that they're bodies makes the man in the middle impossible to hit with our guns. 200++ people all out with a goal to protect can pretty much destroy any realistic chance of an attack on the target with a gun.

I have no problem dying in this game....hell I've never even been killed while I was sleeping. I've always managed to put up some type of fight one way or another. So my suggestion is not out of bitterness towards the topic.

That's where my problem lies. An entire criminal organization wiped out in their sleep without any retaliation? Honestly? Impossible. That should NEVER happen...game or not.

I could care less if I got killed fighting another city in the middle of the day...while knowing I'd still be alive had they all been shot in thier sleep. Simply because..that's what comes with war. If you're afraid of loss...resolve all issues and don't do it.

Also lets be blatantly honest..."sleeping" should add a huge increase to defense. There's only two ways in...a window and a door. There's 200+++ BGs watching them (basically you're not getting the hell in)...less ways to die and less of an area to protect = safer.

Things need to be changed to make the debate mute...like less BGs but better trained. The 5 million goes towards making the few BGs better...which makes it like adding another body...but not. Still keeps the same amount of kills needed to hit them....but limits the mass amount.

Now with the safe houses I agree. I'm not fond of the idea at all...but it's a secondary issue.

A gun is a weapon that discharges a missile at high velocity (especially from a metal tube or barrel). therefore a bazooka and a Howitzer are technically classified as guns. In military parlance, a gun is a muzzle or breech-loaded projectile-firing weapon.

However, we have both wandered off topic as this thread is about safe houses essentially, and we are both agreed that it wouldn't work.

here's where i do something dumb and give my opinion.

ok, so, the "sleep" function origanlly mentioned, totally BS. never would work. you log off and before you do, you go to sleep. i'm on roughly every six hours, i'd either be online, or untouchable. and lets face it, who wouldn't.

however, the "go to the matresses" idea does have some merit. in a war, i'd like to be able to make sure that a cash reserve would be safe for that critical couple of hours. however, there would have to be several limitations. first, if i'm in the city that a player who is protected by being "At the mattresses" and i see there name online and shot at them, i would have to say, mabye the equivalent of x number of gaurds in addition to whatever they've got. but other then that, and the fact that if you go to the mattresses, you 1) can't see the locals list, and 2) perhaps cannot see the locals lsit for x number of minutes after leaveing the safe house( i'm thinking 5 to 10 minutes, giving your crew time to update you) i like the idea.

A sleep function would work well if you were off for a certain amount of time before it was "activated". An hour or two off and it automatically kicks in till the person logs on again. As I said, you're obviously easier to protect when there's two points of entry and you're stationary. It's asking alot but the suggestion itself is far from bullshit.

By sleep I meant when you are a sleep in real world , and that is certainly not 2 hours, minimum is 6 hours, so that is the time you are a sleep in this game as well.

Well I don't think you should automatically be limited to or forced into 6 hours of sleep. I pull 3-6 usually...abnormal but whatever.

It would make more sense as an automatic thing...after being inactive for an hour or so it kicks on until you become active again (there could be a time limit on the amount of time of course).

The whole premise of starting a war here is completely unrealistic.

Who, realistically, can fly into a city and immediately see everyone there?  Who, from a coffee house in NY city can get on the phone to someone in LA and have them immediately pull up a list of all mobsters currently in the city?  It is this ability to see the entire world in one or two clicks of a mouse that renders the 3am takedown possible.

Just taking a small comment and running with it (apologies if I already missed it through my skimming, why not have a "To the mattresses" option, where rather than having the ability to hide certain key members, the CL or RH can allocate a certain amount of money into a fund to keep bodyguards topped up? 

Currently a frenzied selling of credits can accompany a drawn out war as people struggle to maintain their bodyguards.

Personally I don't think the sleep idea isn't without merit.  I think however there needs to be a balance.  If you give someone the ability to hide away asleep, then why not counteract it with giving someone else the ability to have them tailed?  Give the CL (or one nominated individual, HS leader perhaps) the option to keep maybe 20 people tailed at any one time.  If the person is stealthy you won't get an update for a few minutes, if not so stealthy updates are almost immediate.  If stealthy, you can't tell where they've flown to so you lose the tail the opposite for those mobsters with non-ninja properties.  So you can't sleep in secrecy if you're tailed but then you can't be spotted being asleep if you haven't been tailed.