I've seen this a couple times now. I realize there will be kinks to work out after a new feature and some minor cosmetic errors will occur, but why even bother with it? I see no reason why we can't just go back to the way things were, with a standard rank for everyone regardless of hand spot. 

The whinging of a few people in #main gave us this reactionary change, and now that we've had it for about a week it's pretty clear it doesn't solve any problems (whether or not they even need to be addressed is another debate entirely). 

Squishy I propose you revert hand positions to the way they were before, with no change to ranks and no rank requirements. I'm sure a couple of people may complain about thugs being hands, but from what I've seen, a much larger chunk of the userbase dislikes the new hand ranks.

I'm for reverting hand ranks to normal ones, would really like to see myself as a Don RHM rather than RHM. However I don't support the idea of hands as thugs. When it was Wiseguy for LHM and Made for RHM was the best system.

While I appreciate your opinion Rampage, that is a different discussion entirely. Izzy has stated that when that rule was in effect it got a lot of backlash from users because they could not place people of trust into hand positions. In this day and age MafiaReturns is 75% OOC/whatsapp contacts, and most people want people they know and trust as their hands.

Continuing to tell Izzy what the best system without realizing the negative aspects of it will only irritate him further. 

Except Wayne can give us a valid excuse, i don't think his suggestion to remove the LHM/ RHM rank should be considered. it does no harm and its good, so why ask that it be remove? in real life, RHM and LHM is a rank; most especially in cult, there are even requirements to be a LHM or RHM in real life. And i guess we are trying to simulate a real world 30's life here which makes making thing as real as possible important.

i'm against removing this new rank and support looking for ways to make things better if there is any hiccups than going back to the dark days.

Thank you.

Indeed it is, I've always been about the estethics though so it's just me. Doesnt matter much considering they will grow into the proper age for the rank either way.

Never in "real life" RHM and LHM were not ranks. Perhaps in some families a boss would have a close personal advisor that he and others may refer to as the "right hand," but not left hand that I've ever heard of. The closest thing to what we have as far as RH/LH in terms of rank is consigliere. Unless you're suggesting the consigliere be removed from the general rank tree and reserved only for RH/LH, the real life argument makes little sense. Multiple godfathers in a city, or multiple Dons in a crew would not make sense. This has been discussed about 6000 times in the nearly two decades this game has been around. We will never get "real life' ranking structure, because quite simply it just does not transfer into a MMORPG very well.

it does no harm and its good, so why ask that it be remove?

Hard disagree. 

I've already shown the cosmetic implications it causes, but I'll include a couple more. Hands have retained their rank even after being removed or switching families, their rank sometimes entirely disappears along with their RHM rank, RHMs have shown in the top ranks section as Dons. These things are all minor issues Izzy can fix, but it seems to be a lot of pointless nitpicky codework that could be avoided by simply reverting.

Currently a 200 day old Don RHM holds the same visual rank representation as a 12 hour thug RHM. I feel like the don RH being "equal" in appearance to a thug is a bigger problem than that thug being a rhm.

Many people out of selfishness are playing against the design of the game and taking things out of context, this game is a Role play game in which everything is played out like a script simulating the 30's. If a character dies, the character is out of the world a new character coming in will not just walk in into their position directly, he's got to grow.

children of drug lords in real life will never just  start leading the team without first reaching a age, and taught some things. This is how things should be. Saying that most players are your whatsapp contact is what is causing the whole problem we are facing, and i can boldly tell you that you've made the game stale and rancid with mess everywhere....from CL saying foul words on others funeral to other unacceptable practices.

Nobody cares if this one is your whatsapp contact or whatever, this isn't a family game, its a general game for all, trust is needed to go forward and keep things fresh

when i say you up there, i'm not typically referring to you wayne... i use it in a kinda blanket form

Never, that is honorable and great and everything, but it's just frankly not how the game is played or will ever be played, and to believe it will change after 20 years is just naive. It is not possible to have a mafia mmorpg ENTIRELY adherent to a 1930's real life mafia. No one would play it, people have tried. There has to be a balance of  RL 1930s authenticity with the fact that this is not the 1930s. Real life mafiosi didn't argue in a suggestions forum, or type on a keyboard. To suggest that there is a script to follow is incredibly naive and just frankly untrue: no one scripted out the last week of MafiaReturns. It played out due to player choices and consequences of those choices, which are the #1 driving factor of this type of game. "The action is yours, the reaction is not."

Saying that most players are your whatsapp contact is what is causing the whole problem we are facing, and i can boldly tell you that you've made the game stale and rancid with mess everywhere....from CL saying foul words on others funeral to other unacceptable practices.

I actually agree that it has caused a problem, and I ask that you don't insinuate that I am to blame for it. I didn't make the first whatsapp group. I adapted to the app when it became clear to me that I needed to to play this game properly. 

The "Unacceptable practices" you mention were here before whatsapp was here, before you and I were here, and will be here after as well. Whatsapp and OOC relations did not cause that issue.

Nobody cares if this one is your whatsapp contact or whatever, this isn't a family game, its a general game for all, trust is needed to go forward and keep things fresh

Sadly, a lot of people do care. But unless you plan to hack whatsapp and bring it all down (in which case most people would just switch to telegram) you need to realize the harsh truth and accept that there is no possible way you, I, or we can change it. 

when i say you up there, i'm not typically referring to you wayne... i use it in a kinda blanket form

Cheers lad :P 

The only advise i can give to the admins of the game is as follows:

1. if the RHM/ LHM will be discarded, they should set some minimum requirement (at least days) for a character to be eligible to be a RHM or LHM, cos i never believe that the RHM/LHM cosmetic changes will solve the problem in the first instance cos it at least pacify those angry to see a thug RHM.
2. let the RHM rank remain, but display their real rank beside it, But i guess this will defeat the purpose of the change in the first instance. so i guess the first option is better.

cos i can gladly tell you a person can shoot down his/ her crew thug RHM if he's not pleased. its something i won't hesitate to do. i guess CLs will situp if that begins to happen.

Actually, they can't, thugs cannot be killed other than by CL HQ wack. But I get what you're saying, if your crew has a low ranked hand you could always kill them, or at least try.

No one has really been able to find a compromise here, and perhaps one is not possible, but it never hurts to get people talking about it.

very happy wayne to see you understand my point, let's wait and see what the gods will do.

I agree that this should be changed back. It's a hot mess.

agreed we should revert to old ranks

It's been four days and his rank is still left hand lol. 

Surely there could at least be a hotfix to at least make their rank revert to what it should be should they change positions?

Sidenote - It's only a matter of time before some turd (probably me) cycles all of their members through a hand position to give them all the false rank purely for lols.

+1

^ Good point Boobs

I am sick of seeing the same old scene

+1

Rank: Right Hand Man  someone still has this lol wtf