War breaks out. Do you shoot wiseguys and below? 

Video looks at the curious faces. Some future crew leaders stand in his midst. The strategists begin to ponder and the dreamers begin to smile. The idea and glory they see at the top is a beautiful fantasy they wish to immerse themselves in. Still others grow anxious and are callous towards these types of conversations, the ones that bring up bad memories. 

Lately, there has been talk circling around about city take-downs and frustrations about wiseguys being killed off in war. Some seem to be advocates of a method that takes down everyone affiliated with a city while others prefer that only made men and above go down with the ship. I cant help but think its time for a good ol' fashion debate. 

I found myself in the OUTSIDE corner of the streets recently and listened to a couple mention how they loathe when wars break out how entire cities fall apart. How the leaders bring mass chaos by breaking up the order of life when wiseguys and below are murdered. If you have thoughts to add, i would politely ask you to speak up! 

Video rings the bell. It was a bell he carried with him whenever he was about to start a debate or in fancier language a discourse. 

In one corner, we have what you would consider the idea of the noble. That those under made would last past the war. Go on and thrive with a new crew leader where they have little to no commitments. Proponents of this claim they are innocent. That They deserve a chance to be MADE and live the glorious life the mafia has to offer. 

Well in the other corner we have an idea that war means death. These wiseguys and earners who still shoot guns will look to protect their crew leaders when rogues or wars occur. Proponents ask Why would you have a situation where someone who signed crew rules and sent tribute money for another leader get to live? Why would you allow yourself to bring someone from another family when they did not show loyalty in the past? 

Speaking of the past i think that is a good segway. We can, and certainly should, look to the past and eventually i believe we will come to this ruling: It will always be a case by case situation.

Video pauses for effect.  

I believe in order for us to truly find an answer to my original question we do have to consider a few things and perhaps deepen the clarity of them once again.

1. Loyalty being one.
2. The meaning of a Made Man or Woman being the second.
3. And what is Innocence?
   1. I also believe as a society we have to understand that innocence is only given to those that are legitimately without a crime. For example: Once an individual shoots a gun or Sends tribute money to their Crew leader or even Performs a felony crime. They then lose that original status of innocence. 

Video stops. Looks at the faces. Had he spoke too much? Had he got off topic? Perhaps these were multiple conversations and he bundled them up unfairly. 

To re ask my question how would you separate the sheep from the goats? And do you feel we need to, as a society redefine the meaning of some of the above? 

Baby Beel put his hands behind his back, removed his pacifier, and spoke.

"Bow (I agree that it's a case by case basis. Some people can be afforded some mercy. If a strong first wave is successfully executed, and hit squads kill their targets, there is no need for mere associates to die. They can find a new crew, and perhaps then, they will officially be a member of the family.)"

"Chika (It is always a risk though. Often, after a war, some people will seek revenge for their friends. It's a natural and honorable response, one of the few moments we mafioso can be honorable. If someone goes rogue, these associates may possibly become their protectors. It will extend the combat for a few hours more. These associates or protectors will then have to die.)"

"Bow (There are also cases where the first wave of gunfire actually misses on a few key targets. These associates can now and do become protectors. A solution for these associates to survive is to leave their crew and find a new one. A responsible neutral crew leader will then have to take their guns so that they cannot join the war. Otherwise, all protectors and likely protectors will have to die.)"

"Wow (In this thing of ours, we live as criminals. We can let loose unlike when we are living our legitimate lives. I, for one, do not care if an entire city is wiped along with their associates. Their kin can find a new home afterwards, and they will be welcome in the crews. It is part of the fun.)"

If you rep the tags of your crew youre free game. Sucks to suck but it is what it is. 

war may be about to break out, do you shoot wiseguys and below? no, you shoot your own right hand and a made to save your own ass. 

 Adora if you aint first ya last!

Aladdin was wondering about Seattle on his Magic Carpet when he heard Don Video speaking about the previous wars and the role of Wise guys in it. It was certainly a hot topic of the hour and many had pointed at some of the scorching tactics that were applied by the cities involved in wars the previous some times. Having been involved in a fair few of them, Aladdin felt compelled to chime into this debate. Aladdin parked his Magic carpet next to Baby_Beels stroller and walked over to Don Video and gave his friend a firm handshake and a hug. Then he offered him a cigar from his box and made his way to the center of the debate. 

First of all, I want to commend you sir Don Video on bringing such topic to the forefront of the streets. It is definitely something that has been on the minds of many recently. And as leaders, I feel we need to address questions and or concerns highlighted by the local mobsters of La Cosa Nostra. 

Aladdin lights his cigar and has a puff as he begins to speak. 

So firstly, I think the situation matters as Baby spoke about. You cant have decisions without context. The Las Vegas war was a scorching of sorts because well, some men survived. And due to that any old associates of the Vegas regime were all of the sudden protectors for the men still fighting for pride. I have nothing against such men that fight for pride, but the minute the associates join the foray, they put the other associates at risk. Because lets be honest, the attackers at that point were more concerned about their hands and hitters than the associates of the attacked city. And due to that, a lot of bystanders who could have been spared were put down. A sad loss of life. 

Aladdin then paces about a little and has another deep puff of his cigar. Then looking up and blowing the smoke in the air. Eventually looking back down at the crowd as he accumulated his thoughts. 

Now more recently in the removal of the Windy City and the Big apple. We saw similar tactics where there were some scourge tactics on display. I take no pride in this, but as we all know members of the NY's regime were in jail. Now had we spared the associates, they could have potentially been protectors for when these leaders would be released from jail. Being on the attacking side, I see my men as more important than the associates of the attacked city. Simple costs and benefits. Now there were some and I think even in the Las Vegas war, where some associates chose to stay out of the fight and joined other crews around the country. Once they had joined these crews, guns were taken away and they had an opportunity to earn their bones in the new crews. For those that didnt make this decision, they sadly saw the hot end of a gun. 

Aladdin takes a step back, pulls out his flask and has a sip of the finest whiskey from Crown & Cork. 

See I don't want to sound like I condone the death of associates. I don't, an associate lost is a man lost in La Cosa Nostra. And were not in the business of loosing, were in the business of growing work force and profits. But at times certain decisions have to be made. And they are always made with context at hand. Now I don't doubt anyones loyalty. If a wise guy decides to fight for pride for his fallen leader, have at it. Just know that the minute you make that decision, any other associate is now at risk due to your actions. So perhaps think about the living before you start fighting for the dead? I don't know, its not a clear answer. But to me it all boils down to situations. 

Aladdin finished his talk and walks over to stand next to Video as he awaited others to voice their opinions on the matter. 

Baby Beel cartwheeled himself into view and spoke.

"Chika (I've just thought of an argument for our associates' survival. Simply, it's because they aren't even considered an official member of the family. Associates don't enjoy the honor and benefits of being an official member. Why should they be forced to die, when they are just loosely associated to the crew. They minimally benefit from the crew, are often unaware that they now died because of someone else's war, or are suddenly expected to take the bullets from the crew's enemies.)"

"Chika (Of course, when they do take bullets for the family, that is one of the best proofs that they should now be part of it. And if the crew has always treat them well enough, perhaps that may willingly take the bullet from the family. And perhaps, their kin can benefit from their relatives' sacrifice.)"

Garou had been sat and listening to the conversation brought forward to the crowd by the respected Don Video from Seattle. Many had raised extremely valid points and whilst alot had already been covered, he was keen to step forward and speak, to give his own view on this topic being addressed.

As it has already been pointed out, the 'purging' of those under the rank of Made is never in the best interest of anyone. It is something that usually tries to be avoided at all costs but those costs are something which also needs to always be factored into the equation. We have seen on many occasions where a City has fallen but some loose ends were missed. In turn, these loose ends then received extremely valuable assistance from those within said City, even though they were under Made rank. The results from this can often lead to the deaths of many more members, some of those even being considered as 'innocent' as its simply blood for blood that is sought at that stage.

In the event that the decision is made to remove a Leader, District, City for x,y,z reasons and if the operation is clean enough, then I would agree that the continued deaths of those below Made is unnecessary and I find that below Mades being protected does tend to be the case if it can be kept clean.

As Consigliere Aladdin pointed out, some recent examples wouldn't fall into this category as there were individuals that still remained and having members of their crew around to aid them only increased the risks of casulties to the other side.

He paused for a moment.

This isn't a playground. We all enter this life knowing what we are getting ourselves into. Family comes first and most will die trying to protect that bond even if they haven't been fortunate enough to receive the prestigious honour of their button just yet. It's a double edged sword. Respect, honour, protection, family. All of these things play into each scenario and each scenario is usually different.

Eddie tips his hat to Don Video and tells him how much he admired his hat and shoes. Eddie would have gone and greet everyone but he decided to go straight to his point.

Let me tell my view on this in two ways.

First, if I was the instigator of the attack, all the heads, their hands and those who have big guns would be the targets of the surprise attack. Sometimes, the plan isn't successful 100% and one or two targets escapes getting to retaliate and shoot back. That's where the associates, wiseguys and others come in to play. They will be able to help the surviving high ranks and thus prolong the supposedly fast take down. So they become targets as well. And when the war continues on, no one would know who among the associates did not fire their weapon or help their surviving leaders. So that makes them all a target to me. 

But if the the first wave of attack was successful, then those who were associates can be given the choice of joining other families or simply retire to the old country. 

Next, if I was an associate of those being wiped out, I would give it my 100 percent to help in anyway I can. I made my family my life when I joined them. Now, if for an instance all my bosses are dead, and I am given the chance to join a new family, I would chose to retire in the old country. I respect others who would choose to join other crews since they get to live another day to fight. But me, when my family dies, I'll just go back to my blood kin and probably tend goats or cut grasses. But never would I join another family while a war is still ongoing or if anyone in my family is still fighting. 

Well, thank you Don Video for giving me the chance to speak and share. I should head back now and finish cleaning those pineapples that arrived for you.

Jester lights himself up a smoke and rides his unicycle up to the soapbox where Don Video was initiating a great discussion amongst the crowd.  Jester did some carny tricks for awhile before getting down to the subject at hand....  

Wise Guys in a war...

"You know, there's been so much talk of the clean canvass lately in other discussions about the world that I think that I am going to bring it over to here.  Really, it's up to the attackers to decide the fate of the wiseguys.   I know I'm just a goomba with a nasty streak, but maybe someday I'll be someone important - or most likely I'll just get assassinated and thrown in a mass grave, but I digress..."

Jester gathers himself and starts thinking... hard.  Steam starts coming out of his ears.

"You like that one??  I learned it at the jester academy..."

"I guess if I'm attacking, I'd try to be benevolent - but there's got to be minimal risk to my crewmembers.  Any wiseguy found to be online present in the war is obviously fair game.  The chances of them proing are enough that they need to be mitigated.  Also, many wiseguys seem to prolong their associate length at the expense of graverobbing.  Therefore, I think it's reasonabe to look violently upon  wiseguys that are able to carry 35 or 40 pounds of drugs, or start getting a little long in the tooth in age.  If left to live, there's a good chance that they could do some significant damage to your family - which is obviously something that we don't want."

Jester realizes he's rambling...

"Long story short - stay offline away from the battle, and don't stay wiseguy too long.  I think you should be fine."

Jester pulls a quarter from behind the ear of Rudy and flips it to him with a sly grin and hops on his unicycle and rides off into the sunset to find some more people to entertain.