I'd like to suggest a change for achieving the Godfather rank.

After a player has met every criteria for the Godfather rank except its minimum time, between the day they meet their last criteria (rank, members, and units) and the 120th day of their account, they have a once-daily chance of "finding" the hidden/NPC Godfather. If they succeed, they can choose to challenge them before the 120 day min time. The probability of finding them starts out low and rises incrementally the closer they get to the min time. This will only be available if no living Godfather presides over the district in question (basically, this can't be used to remove a living Godfather, only to fill a vacancy).

There's a lot of ways this "ripples out" into the game, so I'll try to be complete in why I think it's a good idea.

• Players rank really fast, and that's a good thing. But sometimes players with old accounts are prioritized over others simply because they will attain the rank sooner. At least offering younger characters the chance of being a Godfather before 120 days may spur them to play harder, which is good for the game. This carries into my next point:
• More Godfathers means more crewleaders which means more full cities which means more opportunities for more players. This is also good for the game, since it spreads power out among cities and players more evenly. More players with more power means a more fun power dynamic.
• The Godfather rank comes with exceptional boosts, and that means that individuals pursuing a Godfather spot may be targeted by existing Godfathers in other cities, knowing full well that Dons can't get the boost until they've reached 120 days. I think the minimum time arbitrarily cements some players in power, which I think is bad for the game. The Godfather min time should not be the only thing keeping would-be rivals in check, but sometimes it is.
• Since players may become "contenders" earlier in their account life, but only in a very limited scope, this may reduce the average account age without putting any individual or group to a direct disadvantage (unlike, say, reducing the BG cap).
• Crewleaders that already run their own districts (and are effectively the Godfather of their district) don't have to wait as long for a formality to clarify that position.

I'm sure this would have more effects on the game. Good for some, bad for others. But I think overall this would make the game more fun. It adds an element of chance to the system that would only promote playing harder and rewarding that hard work with a better chance at surviving to Godfather.

I noticed you only posted your "pros" and no "cons" to this idea. Do you see no negative effects that this suggestion will have upon the game? To myself and others, the rank of Godfather is not only one that signifies leadership within a city or district but within the game itself.

After a player has met every criteria for the Godfather rank except its minimum time, between the day they meet their last criteria (rank, members, and units) and the 120th day of their account, they have a once-daily chance of "finding" the hidden/NPC Godfather. If they succeed, they can choose to challenge them before the 120 day min time. The probability of finding them starts out low and rises incrementally the closer they get to the min time. This will only be available if no living Godfather presides over the district in question (basically, this can't be used to remove a living Godfather, only to fill a vacancy).

There are many that already feel the rank of Godfather has lost its once-revered meaning with the sheer ease of attaining the rank and the number of Godfathers we have already and you want to add more and make it even easier?! How does that in ANY way make the rank mean anything more than Boss or Goomba?

Effectively you want to lose the min-time requirement and make it so anyone can be a Godfather because they came upon a game generated NPC Godfather and not because they showed any leadership ability within their family, district, city, or the game itself.  Almost instantly given boosts to their skill set that they did not EARN by surviving, strategizing, and beating the odds.

"Players rank really fast, and that's a good thing. But sometimes players with old accounts are prioritized over others simply because they will attain the rank sooner. At least offering younger characters the chance of being a Godfather before 120 days may spur them to play harder, which is good for the game."

There is a minimum time for a reason and this is exactly why. Minimum times used to be around for all ranks, I miss those days, Made Man and above actually meant something. I can have units for Capo in less than a day as most people can. To be a Godfather you have to survive 120 days, not just wars, but the mental strain that comes with leading not only a crew but a district or city. You have to EARN this rank in more than one way.

At one time it was 6 months... 120 days is fuck all in the grand scheme of things. If anything it should be HARDER to get Godfather than it currently is. There should be a minimum time you have an HQ before being eligible for the rank of Godfather in addition to the minimum age of 120 days and that HQ should be at least 75% full at the time of promotion.

If you want to be a Godfather it's simple. Prove it. Prove you can do it. Prove you are worthy. Play the game to survive and win. 

"More Godfathers means more crewleaders which means more full cities which means more opportunities for more players. This is also good for the game, since it spreads power out among cities and players more evenly. More players with more power means a more fun power dynamic."

More Godfathers... Again, cheapening the rank. We just watched Zeitgeist go from 30 units to 60 in less than a month. This was impressive and took a LOT of work on his part, but he wasn't a leader before he put that effort in... He put that effort in because he became a leader. While I have a lot of respect for Zeitgeist, he clicked his way to Godfather after putting very little effort into his account before he went bold. (I <3 you Zeitgeist please don't take this personally. You're just my example.) This was made possible because those in charge respect him and know that he is more than capable of leading due to OOC reasons based on his past runs and capabilities which is often the case, even in my own experience when given the honour of leading a family in the past.

How many Godfathers are in one district (which is effectively a neighbourhood) in "real life"? You have to remember there is a small amount of "real life" taken into consideration when it comes to things such as minimum time and rank.

Is anyone going to welcome rival Godfathers with open arms into their city or district? Power is already spread among the cities with 2-3 Godfathers each. There is strength in numbers so most districts wait until all HQs are full or close to full before authing another leader for that reason. Not to mention the fact that the more HQs in a district the more expensive they become to purchase. This is to help spread the "power" around the cities in a more even fashion.

There was a time when we had 200 member HQs that were full... those times are long gone. We're lucky if we can fill 30 member HQs now. You cannot fill cities when you do not have the players to fill them. There's nothing stopping the authing of more crews per district other than those running the districts and cities.

Twenty Godfathers in-game are not going to attract more people. We can't fill the HQs we do have.

"The Godfather rank comes with exceptional boosts, and that means that individuals pursuing a Godfather spot may be targeted by existing Godfathers in other cities, knowing full well that Dons can't get the boost until they've reached 120 days. I think the minimum time arbitrarily cements some players in power, which I think is bad for the game. The Godfather min time should not be the only thing keeping would-be rivals in check, but sometimes it is."

Godfathers are going to keep an eye on the future Godfathers, measuring them up as friend or foe. You want to take your enemy out as early as possible. That's called STRATEGY and it already happens.

Godfather should NOT be a rank you can get early on in your character.  It should not be something you can get after 60 days because there hasn't been a war or you came across a game generated NPC Godfather character. You should have to fight for it. You should have to prove your ability to survive and lead. You should have to "play the game" so to speak.

I cannot help but eyeroll hard at this. A Don can do some serious damage without the boosts that Godfathers. Some Dons, or lower ranks, have stronger guns than Godfathers. We've seen Made Men take out Godfathers before. It's all about the effort you put into your gun.. and the rest of the aspects of your account. 

"Since players may become "contenders" earlier in their account life, but only in a very limited scope, this may reduce the average account age without putting any individual or group to a direct disadvantage (unlike, say, reducing the BG cap)."

The game is about survival, strategy, politics, and skill. You want to take away from the hard work some put into surviving long enough to become a Godfather and just randomly give someone else their reward... The point is to survive the longest. It's not often you see an account reach a year old these days. If you want to be a contender early on in life, make a name for yourself and PROVE you can be a leader and should be considered for a Godfather position if one should become available.

"Crew leaders that already run their own districts (and are effectively the Godfather of their district) don't have to wait as long for a formality to clarify that position."

See all statements about earning the rank, proving you can handle it, cheapening the rank, etc... Part of being a Godfather is LEADERSHIP ABILITIES. This cannot be proven by merely having the units to attain the rank and a random dice roll, nor should it ever be determined that way. 

This game isn't about being easy, it's about surviving and "winning". Part of the allure is that it's NOT easy. All the other games out there are... MR isn't. There are challenges that anyone in a Godfather role should have to face. Your suggestion just makes it easier and more like the other games out there. I don't play this game for the ease, I play it for the challenge and I'm sure I'm not the only one. 

There are many that already feel the rank of Godfather has lost its once-revered meaning with the sheer ease of attaining the rank and the number of Godfathers we have already and you want to add more and make it even easier?! How does that in ANY way make the rank mean anything more than Boss or Goomba?

Effectively you want to lose the min-time requirement and make it so anyone can be a Godfather because they came upon a game generated NPC Godfather and not because they showed any leadership ability within their family, district, city, or the game itself.  Almost instantly given boosts to their skill set that they did not EARN by surviving, strategizing, and beating the odds.

There is no "good" or "bad" number of Godfathers. The ones who earn the rank have earned it. If there's x districts, there could feasibly be x Godfathers. I don't care about the "reverence" for a word in a browser game. Comparing it to Goomba simply because it may be attainable in some fewer number of days is absurd. But I'm guessing this won't be the last absurd argument I have to address in this post.

Achieving the min time is no greater measure of "leadership" than any of the other criteria. In fact, it's probably the worst. Getting members means people are willing to work for you. Getting units means you played vigorously. Owning a district means someone put you in charge. If they've lived long enough to meet every other criteria, I think they deserve a chance at the rank, because all the hard work has already been done. They're just waiting so they can earn your "reverence".

If anything it should be HARDER to get Godfather than it currently is.

I'll remind you, again, this is a browser game. We're here to enjoy it, not slave at it for months just so you can tip your hat to us on the street. You say that it "should be harder" but give no argument in support of this- is this just your "reverence" talking?

If someone has met every criteria to lead their district or city except for an arbitrary minimum time, why not give them a chance to achieve it? You've said you don't like it, and that we all need more reverence, but apart from useless pseudo-nostalgia (which the userbase almost certainly does not share), you just don't like it. And that's okay, but just say that you don't like it.

We just watched Zeitgeist go from 30 units to 60 in less than a month. This was impressive and took a LOT of work on his part, but he wasn't a leader before he put that effort in... He put that effort in because he became a leader. While I have a lot of respect for Zeitgeist, he clicked his way to Godfather after putting very little effort into his account before he went bold. (I <3 you Zeitgeist please don't take this personally. You're just my example.) This was made possible because those in charge respect him and know that he is more than capable of leading due to OOC reasons based on his past runs and capabilities which is often the case, even in my own experience when given the honour of leading a family in the past.

Your entire anecdote here explains in particular detail why the min time is arbitrary. Zeitgeist deserves the rank because he lived afk for a few months before he resumed playing? Because he had a bloodline that deserved it? These are awful things to advocate for. Take Dmitry- a person who is currently limited ONLY by the min time- he deserves it less than Zeitgeist? Because he fought through and won the war instead of just standing on the sidelines? I obviously have the utmost respect for Zeitgeist, because he earned the rank. No asterisks. Because that's what he did. But your "reverence" seems to get a little shaky when it's a friend of yours getting the nod.

Had his account been made a few weeks before he started grinding, does he still deserve it? Or does being afk for three months give him the green light?

How many Godfathers are in one district (which is effectively a neighbourhood) in "real life"?

You wanna tell me how many Godfathers sit on their hands for two months waiting to take the mantle because the world won't have enough reverence for them if they don't? None of them. Sometimes it happened overnight. It's a violent, dynamic system, and while I do enjoy trying to role play it, appeals to realism here will be sorely lacking.

Also, the only way this change results in more Godfathers is if people were going to get shot before they reached the min time. Saying that city or district heads who died a week, or two weeks, or a month short of the min time don't deserve it when they met every other criteria has no basis in realism. In what "realistic" sentiment could you argue that an acting Godfather isn't a Godfather until the oven timer goes off? There's no one above them. They're just waiting.

Godfather should NOT be a rank you can get early on in your character.  It should not be something you can get after 60 days because there hasn't been a war or you came across a game generated NPC Godfather character. You should have to fight for it. You should have to prove your ability to survive and lead. You should have to "play the game" so to speak.

There is no basis to say that surviving to 90 days is any less "playing the game" than surviving to 120. It's just arbitrary. Which, again, I'll argue that Dmitry has done enough to merit running his own city- as decided by his own members, the other leaders, and the auths that serve under him- but he has to sit for a month waiting for the actual title to come through. He fought for it. He proved his ability to survive and lead.

Min time is STILL not a measure of leadership. It is more a measure of luck or clique strength. But not leadership.

The game is about survival, strategy, politics, and skill. You want to take away from the hard work some put into surviving long enough to become a Godfather and just randomly give someone else their reward... The point is to survive the longest. It's not often you see an account reach a year old these days. If you want to be a contender early on in life, make a name for yourself and PROVE you can be a leader and should be considered for a Godfather position if one should become available.

I'm not "taking away" anything. And to say that meeting the Godfather criteria is "random" shows you have put almost zero thought into your response (as if I couldn't tell that already). You make it sound like I want to redistribute ranks via lottery. And that's, again, ludicrous.

The "point" is to play the game, man. And the more people playing it, the better. Telling people to be "reverent", wanting everything to be harder, take longer, and generally be less fun has zero appeal to me and a lot of other players.

And what's worse, your argument is: work hard, make a name for yourself, and wait for the title to be handed to you. Instead of, work hard, make a name for yourself, and earn it yourself because you don't need to wait for two months on someone else's mercy.

See all statements about earning the rank, proving you can handle it, cheapening the rank, etc... Part of being a Godfather is LEADERSHIP ABILITIES. This cannot be proven by merely having the units to attain the rank and a random dice roll, nor should it ever be determined that way. 

Neither can it be determined by account age! You're making an appeal to an arbitrary number as if it's some well-founded principle. It's not. If you get the crew, then the units, then the members, then the district, then the city? Yeah, I think you've earned a chance at being a Godfather.

Which is all they had at that point anyway- a chance of making it to 120 days. I just think it would be fun to codify that into the game.

This game isn't about being easy, it's about surviving and "winning". Part of the allure is that it's NOT easy. All the other games out there are... MR isn't. There are challenges that anyone in a Godfather role should have to face. Your suggestion just makes it easier and more like the other games out there. I don't play this game for the ease, I play it for the challenge and I'm sure I'm not the only one. 

Accomplishing what I'm describing requires hundreds of hours of work for what is, essentially, just a word and a number on a browser mafia game. The REAL allure of this game is that you have a chance to make something of yourself in an intense environment and you don't know exactly what's gonna happen next. And my suggestion demonstrably contributes to that.

I'm happy to discuss your concerns in private, but if you're going to continue with "reverence," "make it more difficult," and "I don't like it," I feel believe your opinion on the suggestion has been heard, loud and clear.

We just watched Zeitgeist go from 30 units to 60 in less than a month. This was impressive and took a LOT of work on his part, but he wasn't a leader before he put that effort in... He put that effort in because he became a leader. While I have a lot of respect for Zeitgeist, he clicked his way to Godfather after putting very little effort into his account before he went bold. (I <3 you Zeitgeist please don't take this personally. You're just my example.) This was made possible because those in charge respect him and know that he is more than capable of leading due to OOC reasons based on his past runs and capabilities which is often the case, even in my own experience when given the honour of leading a family in the past.

I honestly couldn't agree with you more Jedediah. The prestige of Godfather is all but gone, it's embarrassingly easy to get to the rank. I can remember in the early days playing 12 hours a day and not min timing boss, now you can get boss points in 2 days, with a decent amount of effort.

I'm quite happy to be forthright here, I essentially went from a Goomba to Godfather in roughly 26 days. I also got a bit of mis-information when setting up which resulted in me losing units, dropping from 33 to 25, this essentially cost me 1.5 days. I have been Godfather a number of times before so it wasn't as much of an event for me, but it really doesn't feel like I am deserving of the rank this time around and it seriously cheapens the achievement that use to go along with the title. 

I think everything from Earner up should basically be doubled, in terms of difficulty. You don't detract from new players enjoyment of the game, and their introduction to it, but a big part of what makes games fun and the "leveling" experience fun from a gamification perspective is a sense of accomplishment.

I did some rough maths and with what I would consider my standard amount of play time (when I am actually playing) I could reasonably painlessly hit 3  - 4x Godfather points in what is considered "min time" which honestly should be the exception rather than the rule in terms of accomplishment.

I am all for the Godfather rank getting new stuff to do (Cause right now it's pretty underwhelming) but lets not make it any easier/faster to attain please.

Just my 2c.

Just for clarity's sake, no part of my suggestion addresses or changes unit difficulty. That concern deserves its own suggestion with its own conversation. If your argument is "the other criteria for GF are too easy for this suggestion to work," then perhaps the GF units should be more difficult, and grow easier the closer you get to the min time (to complement this suggestion, perhaps). But as long as the GF units are at their present difficulty, I don't see why holding district leaders at Don for 1-2 months for a formality is "more fun" or a better "sense of accomplishment".

Surely it's more fun if all that leveling actually meant something when you got it, right? At 120 days, there's a sense of accomplishment. At 119, it's "practically Goomba"?

• The 120-day min time is not a measure of leadership. That's why you need a district and a minimum number of members.
• The 120-day min time is not a measure of effort. That's why you need 60 units.
• The 120-day min time is a meaningless formality that separates actual district and city heads from the title that we bestow on district and city leaders.

It seems players have a problem with the principle of this suggestion ("making it easier") but no one will actually apply their "principle" to the real game. For instance:

On the day that Zeitgeist got Godfather, four other city heads (Berserker, Whoreable, JustinBieber, and Dmitry) were all Dons with 60 units. None of these city heads, despite meeting every other criteria with multiple auths under them and leading over 70% of the game's population, deserved even a chance at the title that we bestow on city heads.

And more importantly, none of them deserved it as much as Zeitgeist.

If someone's willing to actually make and stand by this argument instead of just pining for more "difficulty" and "reverence", I would certainly appreciate it. Because discussing a suggestion where one side won't even acknowledge the actual state of the game is getting frustrating. But, I also won't keep pushing for a suggestion no one wants.